EPT
I just uploaded some replays.
Please note that I was pretty tired when I played the games, so I did not use the game to its greatest potential!
I hope the replays give you a little better insight on how the composition works!
[G]Ghost/Marauder/Helion - The key to TvZ? - Page 5
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Ballbreaker
Germany97 Posts
I just uploaded some replays. Please note that I was pretty tired when I played the games, so I did not use the game to its greatest potential! I hope the replays give you a little better insight on how the composition works! | ||
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mage36
415 Posts
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DjRetro
Chile309 Posts
On August 29 2011 09:00 Ballbreaker wrote: Hi there I just uploaded some replays. Please note that I was pretty tired when I played the games, so I did not use the game to its greatest potential! I hope the replays give you a little better insight on how the composition works! Hi dude, i'm sorry i didn't see your replays posted previously  LOLOk, i'm gonna see your replays :D thank you a lot! Regards! | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On August 29 2011 09:00 Ballbreaker wrote: Hi there I just uploaded some replays. Please note that I was pretty tired when I played the games, so I did not use the game to its greatest potential! I hope the replays give you a little better insight on how the composition works! gonna check it out later on tonight i hope you play against the much maligned muta's | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On August 27 2011 03:37 Severus_ wrote: Wall off ? what are you talking about you can't wall off on open field....with this comp you have no map control zerg can counter attack you,expand all over the map. You have no way to stop benling drops on your army or any drops at your main without any AA only ghosts witch sux because their fire rate is slow comepre to marines. For this to work you need APM cloes to the automaton movies....can't see it working vs any decent player. Oh, I thought you meant a huge baneling bust, but instead you mean a Zerg not teching at all and sitting on 2/3 bases (you're NOT holding a 4th with no infestors or mutas against a terran that can drop) which is just dumb. And ghost's AA is bad? What? They shoot relatively slow but hit pretty damn hard and snipe is ridiculous against mutas. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
So, I main as zerg, and I recently decided to get another account for terran/screwing around and started playing with heavy ghosts (like constantly having 20 ghosts). My first one last week was ghost/hellion/reaper (which still crushed but ate too much gas and the reapers were too fragile) and today I was trying another method... ghost/hellion/medivac leading into (optimally) ghost/hellion/medivac/tank (dropping medivac production for tanks once you have enough of them). Because my terran is absolutely horrible, I ended up not getting tanks until late and had way too many medivacs due to my habit of always having production (and still macroing bad with not enough buildings >.>). However, regardless of that... it dominated a roach/infestor zerg. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NuMm9.jpg) http://drop.sc/29780 Really though, what CAN zerg do against an endgame composition of ghost/hellion/tank/medivac? Hell, I dont know why I am contributing to the death of my main race... | ||
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Blind86
Australia30 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 29 2011 16:44 Blind86 wrote: With the new patch...would ravens be a succesful addition to this composition? HSM etc good against banes and mutas. My worry is the gas intensity ;s I imagine after the patch getting a raven or two will be good in all matchups, but I dont think it would really be necessary. Honestly, I think Ghost/Hellion/Tank/Medivac is so good it could break the matchup | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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Ballbreaker
Germany97 Posts
With the new patch...would ravens be a succesful addition to this composition? HSM etc good against banes and mutas. My worry is the gas intensity ;s Adding Ravens to this composition could be really helpful after the patch once you are on three or more bases. I wouldn't try this on only two bases though, as it cuts dramatically into your Ghost production! I think very viable for a roach/infestor or ling/bling infestor player, but I really can't see this working all too well for a mutaling player. I know you said it works well early game and if a player is committed to muta you should get a few thors, but i'm fearful of the transition. committing to marauders against a composition full of lings doesn't seem like a good idea, and that gas eats away at thor production since you're already getting ghosts. Would love to see some more replays against a mutaling player, as I'm skeptical about the composition as well as your ability to put on pressure against a zerg.Really diggin the mobility aspect of it though. I always thought it'd be interesting to put off the ghosts for a bit and go viking marauder hellion. If you start viking production early (which you absolutely can do no problem) you'll be fine against mutalisks, and vikings get the extra bonus from air upgrades as well. You basically try to build as many Ghosts as you can with this composition. If you don't have the gas to build one, get a Marauder instead to have a constant production cycle. This is great against Mutaling players. You will reach 20 Ghosts really really fast. However, if you scout a lot of Roaches, you should definitely build more Marauders than Ghosts and get a faster third base (as it is easier to secure with Bunkers/Planetary Fortresses, etc...). Of course, getting no Ghosts is not beneficial as well, as Infestors will probably give you a hard time if you only have Marauders and a couple of Hellions! | ||
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Cooloff
United States86 Posts
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Cibron
Sweden253 Posts
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EtOHic
Germany9 Posts
I also find this build is great for newbie macro practice. I only switched to playing random recently and I still have a lot of problems keeping constant scv and army production. but this seems to make me focus. I think because ghosts are so mineral hungry early game and I notice that i'm low on minerals all the time and am reminded to build scvs, then I notice later that I suddenly stop getting "you require more minerals" messages which triggers me to build more production facilities. I'm definitely no expert, but I love ghosts in TvZ. watching the zergs muta ball disappear over the 'pew pew pew' sounds brings a smile to my face and makes me hope I never run into it in ZvT! | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
In first game, you already won the game when you killed 50 (!) drones with a BFH drop. The transition you made to win was merely a formality - you could have killed him with marines or battlecruisers at that point. The other game, you badly out-macrod your zerg opponent who left your naked, orbital command 3rd/4th totally untouched. Again, playing such an inferior opponent doesn't really show how to safely pull this off, you could have killed have killed him with anything at all when your economy was was triple his. I tried this vs a decent opponent (low masters practice partner) and after opening bunker pressure, he smashed it with 80 drones by the 10 minute mark. I held off mutas comfortably, and my ghost harass killed 10-15 workers, but it wasn't enough and I lost 3 ghosts which I probably needed later - then he happily morphed 4 overseers when I tried to snipe off the first few, and counterattacked with 120 supply of baneling ling and cracked my natural by 13mins. 3 bunkers of stuff didn't start to hold him off. Please, more replays showing the transition, or post a working build order as I'd like this to work. | ||
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Yakob
United States15 Posts
(http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft?blend=1&ob=5#p/search/0/68H8FeZHkWg and http://www.youtube.com/user/remembertomorrow0#p/c/428377145DE3B169/2/TjO7gPmUqlo) which means that thors isnt necessarily the best response. i doubt that even keeping ghosts with your thors worud help as ghosts are pretty fragile and the splash from that many mutas would be doing terrible, terrible damage. once the thors and ghosts are dealt with then the marauders and helions are easy pickings. all the zerg player has to do is mass enough of a unit to be able to hold the marauder/ helion force long enough for the mutas to finish the thors. the only way i could see a terran dealing with this is one of two routes. the first one: mass viking. although not as fast as mutas, they are tankier and are able to dish out some good damage if the are massed fast enough. the second one would be to constantly harass the zerg (which is viable considering the hellions) into specifically delaying their gas. however, it is semi easy for some zerg players to deal with harassment. the roach range means that if the terran player wants to do enough damage he has to mass enough hellions that he can sack a few of them or suicide them in groups of ~4. and if he tries to bring in marauders it is fairly easy to get a flank on marauders with speedlings. i know that some of you would argue that losing a few hellions to kill a few drones is a good thing, but if you think about it, a hellion only costs 100 minerals, meaning that if you want to come out of this exchange even then you have to atleast kill two drones for every hellion you lose (which is why suiciding 4 is good. a fully saturated base for 400 minerals worth of troops is pretty good.) however, once you factor in the blue flame upgrade, it means that each hellion now costs 250 minerals and 150 gas (100 cost + the 150 minerals and the 150 gas) meaning that all the zerg player has to do to make the exchange even is kill 1 blue flame hellion for every 5 drones, which is pretty easy since you can run your drones away while running your army in. and you will probably only ever be able to harass a good zerg player once. personally, i would opt for the mass vikings. its harder to counter unless the zerg was already going hydra in which case marauders will eat them alive | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:48 -Dustin- wrote: Its actually always bothered me about Ghosts I have played vs T using Ghosts and they null my Festors, Broods, AND Ultras. they don't actually null them, they just make them beatable. infestors, broods, and ultras are still incredibly incredibly strong. | ||
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skunk_works
United States109 Posts
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ozeake
Finland48 Posts
On August 30 2011 08:50 DaemonX wrote: In first game, you already won the game when you killed 50 (!) drones with a BFH drop. The transition you made to win was merely a formality - you could have killed him with marines or battlecruisers at that point. The other game, you badly out-macrod your zerg opponent who left your naked, orbital command 3rd/4th totally untouched. Again, playing such an inferior opponent doesn't really show how to safely pull this off, you could have killed have killed him with anything at all when your economy was was triple his. This. Your build is unconventional, but that doesn't necessarily make it good. In both of the example replays you posted, the zerg player was severely outplayed. There is a lot of theorycrafting going on in this thread, which I don't think is very useful. At most, this seems like an "insult build", something clumsy and unwieldy you do on purpose to humiliate a lesser opponent. Unless you can provide replays with competent zergs fighting against this, I don't think most people (myself included) will take this seriously. | ||
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BoonSolo
United Kingdom74 Posts
Without marines you have no way to kill the OLs and bane drops will just kill everything. Mid masters Zerg on EU, would like to play some games with someone practicing this strat? | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
in zergling vs hellion, because it's such a micro dependent battle, 4 hellions will do good vs 12 zerglings, but 20 hellions won't do so good against 60 zerglings the bigger problem is that if you're making ghosts, you have less gas for medivacs marines are good because they have nice range and with stim are essentially a ranged zergling on dps, so they plow through everything before it can close the gap. the same principle applies to mutas | ||
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