EPTbut why the hell is charge 200/200 and 140s? swap them imo.
[D] Patch 1.4 and its implications - Page 19
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Keilah
731 Posts
but why the hell is charge 200/200 and 140s? swap them imo. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On August 31 2011 07:00 The Final Boss wrote: Hahaha, I love when people do this. It's not just Protoss (I see Zergs and Terrans doing it too, but it often times seems to be Protoss), but I just think it's really funny when they post silly things like this where they pull out their thesaurus to sound smart while talking about their race and then they use their actual vocab when talking about other races. First off, if you get your whole army and all your spellcasters EMPed by cloaked Ghosts, here are some tips:
As far as drop micro not being difficult, go watch sixjaxMajOr against EGAxslav on Xel'Naga Caverns I believe a couple MLGs ago. MajOr is constantly dropping in two places while poking at the front with his main army and Axslav's decision making and poor multitasking can't stand a chance against MajOr's ridiculously good decision making and great multitasking. At the end of the day, MajOr won, but he had to micro his ass off to get that win (it's actually really great play by him that's exciting to watch, especially since even the casters can't keep up with his fantastic dropship micro. I don't want to make this sound Terran favored, as really late game TvP is a crazy Microfest that I think is pretty balanced, but in a big engagement, as a Terran you need to be able to EMP in the right places to negate your opponent's spellcasters while at the same time, stim, stutterstep, and control your entire army perfectly or else it will die to whatever you miss with your EMPs or else your somewhat fragile bioball dies to the Protoss army. Protoss, at the same time, must also land feedbacks, storm, a-move the bulk of their army, and drop Forcefields, which, if your sentries are spread out you have the ability to drop a good amount of them. Granted, forcefields are pretty difficult to use, but I've played games where even without them I have died to a Protoss ball. If you really have trouble using Forcefields I'd be fine with Sentries being given to Terran in the next patch ^^ well that not really micro, but multi tasking, the reason it is done, is because it is rewarding. Good luck trying to multi task smaller groups of protoss units in an even state of the game as protoss. Micro = use individual units to their fullest potential This is what is every single protoss unit is about, because they have the worst dps, needs to be microed perfectly to be cost effectiv. i don't consider stutter step micro at all, it something every race is using has nothing to do with the individual units. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On August 31 2011 07:27 freetgy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 31 2011 07:00 The Final Boss wrote: Hahaha, I love when people do this. It's not just Protoss (I see Zergs and Terrans doing it too, but it often times seems to be Protoss), but I just think it's really funny when they post silly things like this where they pull out their thesaurus to sound smart while talking about their race and then they use their actual vocab when talking about other races. First off, if you get your whole army and all your spellcasters EMPed by cloaked Ghosts, here are some tips:
As far as drop micro not being difficult, go watch sixjaxMajOr against EGAxslav on Xel'Naga Caverns I believe a couple MLGs ago. MajOr is constantly dropping in two places while poking at the front with his main army and Axslav's decision making and poor multitasking can't stand a chance against MajOr's ridiculously good decision making and great multitasking. At the end of the day, MajOr won, but he had to micro his ass off to get that win (it's actually really great play by him that's exciting to watch, especially since even the casters can't keep up with his fantastic dropship micro. I don't want to make this sound Terran favored, as really late game TvP is a crazy Microfest that I think is pretty balanced, but in a big engagement, as a Terran you need to be able to EMP in the right places to negate your opponent's spellcasters while at the same time, stim, stutterstep, and control your entire army perfectly or else it will die to whatever you miss with your EMPs or else your somewhat fragile bioball dies to the Protoss army. Protoss, at the same time, must also land feedbacks, storm, a-move the bulk of their army, and drop Forcefields, which, if your sentries are spread out you have the ability to drop a good amount of them. Granted, forcefields are pretty difficult to use, but I've played games where even without them I have died to a Protoss ball. If you really have trouble using Forcefields I'd be fine with Sentries being given to Terran in the next patch ^^ well that not really micro, but multi tasking, the reason it is done, is because it is rewarding. Good luck trying to multi task smaller groups of protoss units in an even state of the game as protoss. Micro = use individual units to their fullest potential This is what is every single protoss unit is about, because they have the worst dps, needs to be microed perfectly to be cost effectiv. i don't consider stutter step micro at all, it something every race is using has nothing to do with the individual units. By your own logic, I don't consider using Blink or Storms as micro, so really Protoss just A-moves their units. You are an idiot. User was warned for this post | ||
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Catchafire2000
United States227 Posts
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Coopa826
Germany161 Posts
Ultralisk: Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Implications and reasoning: Hooray! Ultralisks are more easily accesable now. The brood lord is so much better in terms of accesability and army compatibility at the current metagame that I actually see terrans start to add vikings blindly past the 16-17 minutes in the ZvT's I play - simply because they know it will be brood lords. Now by making ultralisks a bit more appealing, we might see terrans be more reluctant to do this. What still worries me, however, is that ghosts are fairly strong vs both brood lords and ultralisks alike. Hurray zerg can get a completly useless unit even earlier YIPIEE | ||
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
It didn't take weapon OR armor upgrades of the controlled unit, so I'm confused why the patch notes state it only affects weapon upgrades... (A thread about it a while ago: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2657515883) | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 31 2011 08:40 The Final Boss wrote: By your own logic, I don't consider using Blink or Storms as micro, so really Protoss just A-moves their units. You are an idiot. User was warned for this post Its a shame he got warned for this. Its perfectly correct. The guy is a moron. He has some decent points but stutter step not being micro is not one of them, how about splitting is that micro? I hope i dont get warned for this, but i really dont know  Also, when have you seen a zerg stutter step? You can do it, i guess with roaches, but really? Its not something you see every single game like with T | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 31 2011 09:43 Genome852 wrote: Just so everyone knows, NP not taking controlled unit's upgrades was unintentional and a bug. It didn't take weapon OR armor upgrades of the controlled unit, so I'm confused why the patch notes state it only affects weapon upgrades... (A thread about it a while ago: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2657515883) A bug fix and a buff are the same thing. Its a change. Doesnt matter what the intention is. This still make NP much stronger. Not sure what the point of your post is. Sorry for double post | ||
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
On August 25 2011 19:09 Thraundil wrote: Now that is excellent. I didnt even think of this implication  That was probably why it was implemented, if you looked in the patch notes thread everyone was talking about it as a big change to pvp hsm change will change tvt, I guarantee it. Now that it's faster than vikings, every time you shoot a hsm, it WILL pay for itself. How are you going to figure out which viking is being targeted by hsm when you have 30 vikings late game? you can eyeball it and split off maybe 4~5 vikings but those will definitely take significant damage. And what happens, if say 4 hsm gets thrown at you? are you going to find each viking in a pack of 30 and split them? No, it's not possible. You just take it | ||
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On August 31 2011 07:00 The Final Boss wrote: Protoss, at the same time, must also land feedbacks, storm, a-move the bulk of their army, and drop Forcefields, which, if your sentries are spread out you have the ability to drop a good amount of them. Granted, forcefields are pretty difficult to use, but I've played games where even without them I have died to a Protoss ball. There's more then just that, I like the "a-move the bulk of their army"... Individual colossus have to be microed back when they are at low health. Blink stalkers have to focus vikings down if possible and if there are no vikings, be all in range to take down the bio army without getting murdered by marauders. Phoenixes have to be microed to get in range to quickly take down vikings, medivacs, and ghosts without getting splattered by marine fires. It is actually rather hard to take down multiple ghosts with feedbacks (if Terran uses Scans + EMPs). Splitting/stutter stepping/focus-firing and a shitload of multitasking = Terran | ||
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HughJorgen
Australia37 Posts
Initial thoughts are: Mutas are a bit more viable. It'll take 5 fungals to kill a muta ball (4 perfect fungals won't do it since the mutas will regenerate). If people get better at splitting mutas that might be enough to bring them back. Banes take 2 Fungals to kill. Infestors take 3 Fungals to kill. That doesn't seem important, but it'll be a greater drain on infestor energy which will reduce the total effect of fungal on everything. Ultralisks, which seem like they should be a great counter to infestors, build quicker which might just make them viable. ATM Zerg matches aren't progressing beyond mass roach + infestor. I really hope the changes are enough to get it evolving again. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On August 25 2011 20:47 Grubbegrabbn wrote: Good writeup! The BF Hellion damage change vs light (8+6+10=24 changed to 8+6+5=19) implies: vs Marine (45hp): Need 3 hits instead of 2 vs Marine with shield (55hp): 3 hits (no change) With this change, a marine with combat shield+stim can stim once and still need 3 Hellion hits before dying but right now you can only take 2 hits. Hm I wonder what this means for TvT that seem to have shifted to Hellions instead of marines...? It just increases the critical mass of hellions and make marines better at smaller-medium sizes. | ||
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BBWsuperstar
74 Posts
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DeltaX
United States287 Posts
[B]On August 25 2011 18:54 Thraundil wrote: General Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. Implications and reasoning: I am not entirely sure why this change is being made. It will make it even harder to gain any scouting information in the early game by poking up the ramp with a cheap unit, and the early stages of the game are already by far the most fragile where scouting info is oh so important. In addition, agressive pushes up the ramp of a defender will be severly weakened by this, as e.g. a stalker will now be able to shoot a hydralisk standing on the low ground without the hydralisk being able to shoot back via a ramp spotter; only an air unit can provide the vision now. The bold part is not totally correct. You gain high ground vision at the same point that you did before. The only difference is that you cannot see units that are ON the ramp anymore from the low ground. I did test this on the PTR. | ||
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darklight54321
United States361 Posts
On August 31 2011 11:14 Antisocialmunky wrote: It just increases the critical mass of hellions and make marines better at smaller-medium sizes. agreed, it just means that the bio opening play is still viable as long as they switch tech fast enough. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On August 31 2011 10:12 Squigly wrote: Its a shame he got warned for this. Its perfectly correct. The guy is a moron. He has some decent points but stutter step not being micro is not one of them, how about splitting is that micro? I hope i dont get warned for this, but i really dont know Also, when have you seen a zerg stutter step? You can do it, i guess with roaches, but really? Its not something you see every single game like with T I deserve the warning, I was in a rush and thought what the guy wrote was really stupid, so I flamed him. I don't take back the meaning of what I said, but I could have phrased it in a more civil way. On August 31 2011 10:25 iChau wrote: There's more then just that, I like the "a-move the bulk of their army"... Individual colossus have to be microed back when they are at low health. Blink stalkers have to focus vikings down if possible and if there are no vikings, be all in range to take down the bio army without getting murdered by marauders. Phoenixes have to be microed to get in range to quickly take down vikings, medivacs, and ghosts without getting splattered by marine fires. It is actually rather hard to take down multiple ghosts with feedbacks (if Terran uses Scans + EMPs). Splitting/stutter stepping/focus-firing and a shitload of multitasking = Terran Most Protoss armies nowadays are primarily Zealot/Archon/Colossi (with other units like High Templar or Sentries for support) which doesn't require much micro at all. Yes you have to move your colossi back as they start to get low HP and engage well, but it isn't horribly micro intensive. Most of the micro comes in with the High Templar and Sentries, and while it is hard to Feedback Ghosts when the Terran plays well, it is also hard to EMP/Snipe High Templar when the Protoss spread and plays well. Personally I find late game TvP to be pretty balanced, that's all I'm trying to say, but saying that Terran doesn't require any micro is just downright silly. EDIT: Also, Multitasking is micro, it's ridiculous to say that it's not and if you honestly try to say that sixjaxMajOr's ridiculous multitasking doesn't show he has great micro, then there's no reason to even bother debating anything with you. | ||
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
On August 31 2011 11:14 BBWsuperstar wrote: I'm still bummed about the BFH nerf. How many times are we going to get 3 hits on a mineral line? I want to see what happens to drone/probe/scv kills after this patch. probably gonna go wwaaayyyy down. ...that's the point. They're waaaaaaaaaay too cost effective. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On August 31 2011 08:40 The Final Boss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 31 2011 07:27 freetgy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 31 2011 07:00 The Final Boss wrote: Hahaha, I love when people do this. It's not just Protoss (I see Zergs and Terrans doing it too, but it often times seems to be Protoss), but I just think it's really funny when they post silly things like this where they pull out their thesaurus to sound smart while talking about their race and then they use their actual vocab when talking about other races. First off, if you get your whole army and all your spellcasters EMPed by cloaked Ghosts, here are some tips:
As far as drop micro not being difficult, go watch sixjaxMajOr against EGAxslav on Xel'Naga Caverns I believe a couple MLGs ago. MajOr is constantly dropping in two places while poking at the front with his main army and Axslav's decision making and poor multitasking can't stand a chance against MajOr's ridiculously good decision making and great multitasking. At the end of the day, MajOr won, but he had to micro his ass off to get that win (it's actually really great play by him that's exciting to watch, especially since even the casters can't keep up with his fantastic dropship micro. I don't want to make this sound Terran favored, as really late game TvP is a crazy Microfest that I think is pretty balanced, but in a big engagement, as a Terran you need to be able to EMP in the right places to negate your opponent's spellcasters while at the same time, stim, stutterstep, and control your entire army perfectly or else it will die to whatever you miss with your EMPs or else your somewhat fragile bioball dies to the Protoss army. Protoss, at the same time, must also land feedbacks, storm, a-move the bulk of their army, and drop Forcefields, which, if your sentries are spread out you have the ability to drop a good amount of them. Granted, forcefields are pretty difficult to use, but I've played games where even without them I have died to a Protoss ball. If you really have trouble using Forcefields I'd be fine with Sentries being given to Terran in the next patch ^^ well that not really micro, but multi tasking, the reason it is done, is because it is rewarding. Good luck trying to multi task smaller groups of protoss units in an even state of the game as protoss. Micro = use individual units to their fullest potential This is what is every single protoss unit is about, because they have the worst dps, needs to be microed perfectly to be cost effectiv. i don't consider stutter step micro at all, it something every race is using has nothing to do with the individual units. By your own logic, I don't consider using Blink or Storms as micro, so really Protoss just A-moves their units. You are an idiot. User was warned for this post TL WIKI: Micro is the ability to control your units individually, in order to make up for pathing or otherwise imperfect AI. For example, controlling only two Marines to kill a Lurker, or being able to kill multiple Scourges with Mutalisks is considered "Micro". The general theory of micro is to keep as many units alive as possible. For example it is better to have four half-dead Dragoons after a battle, rather than to have two Dragoons at full health and two dead ones. no a-moving a ball of units back and forth is hardly micro (may be in the most basic understanding, if you compare it to not moving at all during the fight, everyone can do that) using individual units to maximum effciency is micro, that why it is considered a skill. like hero not losing a single unit in mlg because of individual micro. Basic example: Zealot / Stalker - totally different movement speed, makes zealots often stuck you have to individual move your army so your zealot will always reach the target properly, or else they will do no damage at all are you having the same issues Marine Marauder? no because they are perfectly in sync. both in range and movement speed Same issue with Immortal / Stalker , Sentry / Zealot another example: - using individual small groups of units (i.e. stimming) to snipe important units, now that is micro. - using marines splitting them individually, against banelings / zerglings , that is micro that takes skill cause it alot harder then to just stutter step | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On August 31 2011 10:12 Squigly wrote: Its a shame he got warned for this. Its perfectly correct. The guy is a moron. He has some decent points but stutter step not being micro is not one of them, how about splitting is that micro? I hope i dont get warned for this, but i really dont know Also, when have you seen a zerg stutter step? You can do it, i guess with roaches, but really? Its not something you see every single game like with T Zerg players actually stutter-step a fair bit when doing roach play. A couple of pros have even done stutter-step micro with zerglings to get extra hits or a better surround on retreating marines. Stutter-step is micro, but it's about the simplest and most common kind, which is why people aren't too impressed when Terran players bring it up as an example of complex play. Really impressive marine micro tends to be about good splitting, as demonstrated by pros such as Polt and MarineKing. | ||
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