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Sim City/Queens + Spawn Larva means Hellions kill a maximum of 15 drones
Yeah, that's way too many lol. It can't be necessary because otherwise protoss would never win pvz given there's absolutely zero way protoss can even come CLOSE to killing that many, let alone efficiently aside from unscouted DTs which still probably won't be that cost effective as dt tech > BF tech and each dt is like 3-4 hellions depending on how you count gas, even if they kill 25 drones its still probably less cost effective. it was just ridiculous
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One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL
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chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM.
the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise.
EDIT:
On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL
lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes
200/200 charge
525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3
525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3
900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3
2150/2150 OMFG!!!
....
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On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! ....
Except those ups help your whole army. DT,Zeal, Stalker, Collosi, immortal, sentry, archon. Now divide 1950 by 7.
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On August 28 2011 10:48 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... Except those ups help your whole army. DT,Zeal, Stalker, Collosi, immortal, sentry, archon. Now divide 1950 by 7.
terran building armor also ups your whole base. Now divide that by 40.
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Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.
Implications and reasoning: Contaminate is so strong especially in ZvZ. I think this is completely justified.
Bizarre. If anything, contaminate seems way underused, although maybe decreasing the overseer cost will change that.
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On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! ....
You're whining about the fact that you have to put zealots in front of stalkers? And colossus in the back?Are you freaking serious? Terran is forced to get perfect concaves vs toss, and you whine because you have to do a little unit positioning? And please, stop crying about utilizing full zealot potential. That applies for every damn unit in the game, and while Zerg and Terran have 2 upgrade paths for ground units, you only have one.
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On August 28 2011 11:17 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... You're whining about the fact that you have to put zealots in front of stalkers? And colossus in the back?Are you freaking serious? Terran is forced to get perfect concaves vs toss, and you whine because you have to do a little unit positioning? And please, stop crying about utilizing full zealot potential. That applies for every damn unit in the game, and while Zerg and Terran have 2 upgrade paths for ground units, you only have one.
You deserve it: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/MuzTx1/IDFP.jpg?t=1268104835
Hes being sarcastic about utilising zealots.
On another Note. The P colossus ball obv requires less micro than bio and are fairly A-move, noone is saying it otherwise. HT on the other hand are where P micro comes in.
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On August 28 2011 11:17 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... You're whining about the fact that you have to put zealots in front of stalkers? And colossus in the back?Are you freaking serious? Terran is forced to get perfect concaves vs toss, and you whine because you have to do a little unit positioning? And please, stop crying about utilizing full zealot potential. That applies for every damn unit in the game, and while Zerg and Terran have 2 upgrade paths for ground units, you only have one.
1) Stop whining
2) Yes, ravens could be considered pretty bad, but do realize that they are detector-spellcasters. This is why it is hard to equalize ravens.
3) Toss micro takes a lot harder than terran micro. What you have to do is make sure your vikings don't get raped too much before they rape the collosi. However, you shuld never have a problem if each ghosts' EMP was probably as good as each Protoss's Storm. In fact, you should be owning Toss armies if you do get EMPS off at the same skill level as the Protoss's storm.
The proper option for toss is then to usually not engage, because its not worth it at that point then.
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On August 28 2011 11:17 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... You're whining about the fact that you have to put zealots in front of stalkers? And colossus in the back?Are you freaking serious? Terran is forced to get perfect concaves vs toss, and you whine because you have to do a little unit positioning? And please, stop crying about utilizing full zealot potential. That applies for every damn unit in the game, and while Zerg and Terran have 2 upgrade paths for ground units, you only have one.
if I had to put zealots and immortals and archons and colossus and sentries and stalkers and templars in position only one time, no problem, but if you drop somewhere is hard to make zealots go first than stalkers, if you attack 2 places at once is hard to defend both places with zealots in front of stalkers and sentries with guardian shield protecting then, our units have different range and movement speed, terran can actually start dancing and force a miss-positioning in the protoss army, it's very easy to get caught out of position playing protoss and outright lose the game.
PS: what concave are you talking about? protoss units are larger they need a bigger concave and you should be kiting anyway
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On August 28 2011 11:17 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
You're whining about the fact that you have to put zealots in front of stalkers? And colossus in the back?Are you freaking serious? Terran is forced to get perfect concaves vs toss, and you whine because you have to do a little unit positioning? And please, stop crying about utilizing full zealot potential. That applies for every damn unit in the game, and while Zerg and Terran have 2 upgrade paths for ground units, you only have one.
Zerg and Terran have two upgrade paths, but Protoss armor only applies to 1/2 to 2/3rds of the unit's actual life, unlike Zerg/Terran which applies to 100%.
Terran also only needs the "perfect concave" for a small portion of the midgame. Terran has a rather large advantage in engagements in the early game when stim is finished and in the midgame when medivacs are out but colossi + range aren't. Also in the late game the only thing that matters is landing EMPs, if you get all the templar it really doesn't matter how you engage, you're going to slaughter them, and you have cloak to help you do this.
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Guys... You're drifting way off topic here. This thread is not about which race is harder to micro - all races have their micro, saying that "race A is amove, but race B require super uber much skill!!!" not only positively identifies you as race B player, it also identifies you as a player that really doesnt have a clue about how the game works. If you can truly be beat by an a-moved army, your macro is probably super uber bad. Two equal armies with the appropriate setup against each other, the player with the better micro wins, regardless of what race he might be playing. Now stop arguing this and get back on topic.
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I love how blizz has taken something and added something to each race, makes everyone happy 
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Many of you would be well to slip into your opponents shoes for a while. Let those terrans actually play a few games of protoss and vice versa. Only this way will they understand that what they took for "a-moving" was actually quite a lot of micro and is not so easy after all.
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On August 28 2011 11:00 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 10:48 GinDo wrote:On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... Except those ups help your whole army. DT,Zeal, Stalker, Collosi, immortal, sentry, archon. Now divide 1950 by 7. terran building armor also ups your whole base. Now divide that by 40.
And protoss shield upgrades benefit every building and unit they have. Let's just leave this discussion to that.
I mean come on, all 3 races were made to be different no use trying to compare stuff like that when they aren't similar in anyway. -_-''
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On August 28 2011 20:15 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 11:00 W2 wrote:On August 28 2011 10:48 GinDo wrote:On August 28 2011 10:38 rpgalon wrote:chargelot is A-move, but you have to always put then on front of the stalkers/sentries, colossus need to always be behind the army, every move command you do, you have to put then in their correct positions, it is something terran does not need to do when they go MMM. the difference between MMM, that don't matter from where you attack and a standard protoss army that has front, middle and "rear", is huge, and have already caused the defeat of many professionals because they were caught by surprise. EDIT: On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL lol, a zealot to utilize it full potential takes 200/200 charge 525/525 ground weapons +1 +2 +3 525/525 ground armor +1 +2 +3 900/900 plasma shields +1 +2 +3 2150/2150 OMFG!!! .... Except those ups help your whole army. DT,Zeal, Stalker, Collosi, immortal, sentry, archon. Now divide 1950 by 7. terran building armor also ups your whole base. Now divide that by 40. And protoss shield upgrades benefit every building and unit they have. Let's just leave this discussion to that. I mean come on, all 3 races were made to be different no use trying to compare stuff like that when they aren't similar in anyway. -_-''
I was being sarcastic with zealots because of the raven example and people are discussing it, lol
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On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL
LOL , never quite realized that. The funny thing is, none of them is particularly game changing ("OMG only x seconds until y upgrade is done!!!!"). Not even all of them combined.
Though TBF, Hi-Sec Auto Tracking and Building Armor are quite good for PFs and Missile Turrets.
I now think Idra was right all a long in saying that the game has fundamental design problems. With Mech being a great example of this (not really Idras point ). Blizzard is just trying to have a 50/50 chance of wining for all races to have a healthy pro scene. The expansions are where the "hard core" changes in design should/ will take place. It will require a lot of work from Blizz and i hope they are willing to do it.
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On August 28 2011 09:43 Griffith` wrote:
One of the things I fucking hate about the raven is the amount of research upgrades it needs to be viable:
Consider Auto-Turrets:
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Consider HSM:
HSM Research
Raven Energy
Consider PDD:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 Range)
Raven Energy
Durable Materials (Lasts Longer)
Building Armor (+2 Building Armor)
In other words, for a raven to fully utilize its potential, the terran player needs to spend
800 Minerals and 900 Gas
LOL
Wow this is gamebreaking O_O
Terran should be able to also get banshee without researching cloak
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I have a worry thought. Its about the blink research time increased from 110 to 140.
This is seriously gonna hamper P's response vs the 1 1 1.
The reason is the delay 30s compared to a delay that the terran get of just 5s. The immortal buff is not gonna count for anything in this case since immortals are crap vs marines and banshees and tanks out range them plus terran can scan higher ground and he still has the bansees for viewing higher ground or float a building.
Colosi is a very poor technique since they only work unless the map is huge or terran decides to go for a coffe before the timing push.
While i believe that the game should be allowed to evolve i seriously think that blizz is cutting some serious corners here for P.
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On August 28 2011 22:11 cbueno wrote:
I have a worry thought. Its about the blink research time increased from 110 to 140.
This is seriously gonna hamper P's response vs the 1 1 1.
The reason is the delay 30s compared to a delay that the terran get of just 5s. The immortal buff is not gonna count for anything in this case since immortals are crap vs marines and banshees and tanks out range them plus terran can scan higher ground and he still has the bansees for viewing higher ground or float a building.
Colosi is a very poor technique since they only work unless the map is huge or terran decides to go for a coffe before the timing push.
While i believe that the game should be allowed to evolve i seriously think that blizz is cutting some serious corners here for P.
If you seriously have a plan for fending off the 1-1-1 with Blink Stalkers please share it with the rest of the world so that top Protoss players can tear it apart.
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EPT
