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On January 05 2012 12:38 Amaterasu1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 19:55 Tobberoth wrote:It sure looks interesting and effective, and I already did switch from Standard to Grid in Season 2 so I don't think it would be a problem for me. However, I'm sort of in doubt. While it looks and sounds great, the detail is lacking a bit. You're clearly not an amazing player yourself, which doesn't stop the layout from being great, but it would probably help your credibility to have at least a few master players make videos of them using it and explaining what they like about it. I personally hate moving my hand when playing because it will lead to misclicks. While I'm a strong proponent of backspace-inject, I have often had issues with it (because of lacking queens) and I'm not using it as well as I used to. All of this combined means I have a lot of motivation to try your setup... but it's hard to motivate relearning a hotkey setup over a week when all I have is your promise that it's effective  If you have contact with master players using it, please let me know how they feel about it, it would definitely help me get on it. I am a masters player that has used it longer than anyone else has...and I promise you...it is WAY easier than...well...everything else. The inject method used by the Darkgrid is initially extremely weird. It takes some time to get accustomed to, but, once it's there, it feels faster than the backspace method. Unit ability control is also easier, considering it's all on 'f' and 'e'.... Is there anything specifically you'd like to ask? Or...just my general opinion?? If the latter...it's effing amazing, put simply.
Thank you, your general opinion is definitely good enough 
Personsally, I can now win against hard GTAI (though not as easily as before), and I've started working on the multitask trainer. I've beaten Very Easy twice and will start working on Easy today. I feel like when I can beat Multitask Trainer on normal, I will probably be performing better than I did using grid, so I will probably start laddering again at that point.
Atm, I already feel my macro is better than before because the base cams and the injection method makes all forms of macro control better, so easy to jump between bases and check saturation, progress of injects, upgrades etc. My only issue atm is army control, since I'm still uncomfortable with shift+t, will probably move main army to R and lings to T instead. I'm also unsure about having the scout on 5, thinking of maybe putting it on 3 or 4 instead to make it easier to jump to quickly.
Do you use the Pro config as is, or have you tweaked it yourself?
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Glad it's working for you guys. That protoss army control was so much fun to design. It's a lot easier than the other races since the terran and zerg compositions tend to change a lot from game to game. I have to optimize it to be good for changing things, where I can optimize protoss control based off that consistency.
About mouse 4/5: You want to use the Logitech Drivers to remap it to O and P. If you have the onboard drivers, the ones you can just plug in anywhere and you keep your settings, having the mouse produce O and P reduces the chance that a new computer will not recognize the 4/5 mouse button input -- reduces the change to almost Zero. Most it's just a precautionary measure, though.
Shift+t is a reach for you, Tobberoth? Hm. Well, You want to be able to reach your lings quickly, and you frequently have to add to that control group, so I suggest keeping the lings on R and placing the army on G. Also, I always place my scounting worker on 3. The 5 is for like overseers later on.
Amaterasu has unbound Hold (W) and Move (Which was bound to M, so it's completely out of the way, he's just being ocd). I'm considering moving hold to A and moving patrol to W -- I often tell my overloard to stop when selecting between it and the hatch to make a new worker. Aside from that, I don't know if he's made more. Have you made some you haven't told me about, Ama? *suspicious eyes* 
On the training videos, I don't have an ETA, I'm sorry. If everything works out, they should be great though, we just don't have a time schedule we're working on. I'm going to ask that EU dude to start on one, though, so we can work out the kinks of production.
I might even work on the "good habits" one tonight!
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I'm considering moving hold to A and moving patrol to W
Definitely agree with this. As a protoss player the only time I use hold position is for the zealot when walling off against zerg. Patrol is used more frequently when scouting for expansions, phoenixes on patrol, etc.
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Wow thanks for the great replies about my mouse problem, i will try this in 10 days or so when i get home, i'll post my thoughts when i do <3 keep up the good work
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Giving this a try, feels pretty natural and fluid at first, alot better then blizzard setting. Kind of frustrating to rework my muscle memory, try to hit B for build but instead get zoomed back to my main x.x. Hopefully it wont take to long to get use this setting.
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On January 06 2012 10:00 Edso wrote:
Giving this a try, feels pretty natural and fluid at first, alot better then blizzard setting. Kind of frustrating to rework my muscle memory, try to hit B for build but instead get zoomed back to my main x.x. Hopefully it wont take to long to get use this setting.
Edso, it takes a couple of games to get used to the new layout, but it is definitely worth while as you will see that you mostly alternate fingers in pressings keys with almost no hand movement necessary at all. Really great!
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On January 05 2012 04:48 Limesareoranges wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 18:43 FoxyMayhem wrote:
@Limesareoranges: The CC's are placed on your mouse for the Pro layout. I REALLY like the pro layout, I practised all day with it vs AI and played 3 ladder games. Maybe its just my mouse or just me, but I HATE using my thumb to click on those pesky buttons. It's just not natural. My alternative was to put my CC and OC's on the "R" key instead of starports and techlabs and just add those to "spacebar" with the racks and factory. Also I removed the techlabs from the control group and just used my 6th base cam for it because I never go into a 6 base scenario. Do you have any other suggestions for the CC's?
Limesareoranges, I also found "tapping" with Mouse 4 and 5 to be awkward, especially if you are really fast. It could be that my thumb is just not as dexterous as it should be to do this, or because of the positioning of the buttons on my mouse. I find that I have to move my hand to a less comfortable grip if I want to quickly alternate between mouse 4 and 5.
What I have done is to map my scroll up and scroll down to O and P respectively in my mouse software which if find works great. Not sure about the control groups for Terran, but for Protoss they are great for managing your army and I would recommend not changing them if you have to.
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On January 06 2012 13:25 MilExo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 04:48 Limesareoranges wrote:On January 04 2012 18:43 FoxyMayhem wrote:
@Limesareoranges: The CC's are placed on your mouse for the Pro layout. I REALLY like the pro layout, I practised all day with it vs AI and played 3 ladder games. Maybe its just my mouse or just me, but I HATE using my thumb to click on those pesky buttons. It's just not natural. My alternative was to put my CC and OC's on the "R" key instead of starports and techlabs and just add those to "spacebar" with the racks and factory. Also I removed the techlabs from the control group and just used my 6th base cam for it because I never go into a 6 base scenario. Do you have any other suggestions for the CC's? Limesareoranges, I also found "tapping" with Mouse 4 and 5 to be awkward, especially if you are really fast. It could be that my thumb is just not as dexterous as it should be to do this, or because of the positioning of the buttons on my mouse. I find that I have to move my hand to a less comfortable grip if I want to quickly alternate between mouse 4 and 5. What I have done is to map my scroll up and scroll down to O and P respectively in my mouse software which if find works great. Not sure about the control groups for Terran, but for Protoss they are great for managing your army and I would recommend not changing them if you have to.
I don't have a mouse that has 2 extra buttons so I was trying to remap those 2 buttons to something else, didn't work so great, think I will just try out basic.
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Edso, modify Pro's control groups to match basic, and keep using the Layered Camera keys. Those help so much! The final version will not have "Basic", it will only have "Mouse" and "No Mouse", both with layered camera keys.
I have to say, for all the work I've put into this, hearing you guys love on it makes me smile big. I like that scroll wheel idea, MilExo, I wish my mouse supported that, I'd move even more control groups to my mouse, ha ha ha.
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FoxyMayhem, thanks for all the effort you put in, it is really great. Another thing you can do with the scroll wheel that is nice is "Pylon Cam" and "Warp Gates" as this makes reinforcing the army very fast
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Thanks a lot for this layout FoxyMayhem <3.
Could you please write down (or screenshot) the hotkeys for Protoss and Terran, because the hotkey file doesn't work for Mac?
If you only want to do one (because that's a lot of work) the Terran one would be the most important for me
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On January 08 2012 21:25 ZeVi wrote:Thanks a lot for this layout FoxyMayhem <3. Could you please write down (or screenshot) the hotkeys for Protoss and Terran, because the hotkey file doesn't work for Mac? If you only want to do one (because that's a lot of work) the Terran one would be the most important for me
The hotkey file does work for mac.
To find it, make a custom hotkey thing first and save it, and that will show the hotkey file close to your replay file thing.
eg user - app support - blizzard - sc2 - numbers ect.
Basically after you create your own custom hotkey the folder will show up and you can drag the file into there, then select it in sc2
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I have been using F1 as "center camera" and F2>F7 for creating the base cameras. For me I find this is more intuitive, feels less clumsy, is faster, and allows me to assign " ` " (tilde) to the function of "esc" to cancel in quick reach.
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I have been using space as "Center camera on selection" and it's working wonderfully! now my thumb is almost exclusively camera control (alt and space) which makes it easier to remember in my head.
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Your Optimus Grid Layout is awesome, many thanx. I only had to tweak it a little bit because I don't like to have all of my production on one button, I can't believe doing that took me like 2 hours, so your work is appreciated.
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I'll add those instructions to the OP, -Host, thanks.
Are you using a modified Optimus layout, Yam?
That's an interesting modification, pure. I see how it makes sense. However, since one only uses the center camera on location function 6-10 times in a game, I still recommend for most people that they use space as a control group.
Thanks Princess! What race do you play?
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On January 09 2012 21:53 FoxyMayhem wrote:
I'll add those instructions to the OP, -Host, thanks.
Are you using a modified Optimus layout, Yam?
That's an interesting modification, pure. I see how it makes sense. However, since one only uses the center camera on location function 6-10 times in a game, I still recommend for most people that they use space as a control group.
Thanks Princess! What race do you play?
I play Terran, for me having almost all of the production in one key it sure makes easy setting the rally points, but I tend to forget building from the factory and the starport, that's why I like having them in different keys .
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That's odd, because tabbed production usually helps players remember to produce from those structures better. Whenever they think "produce unit" from any of the structures, having them all on the same hotkey becomes a cue to produce from all of the structures, so the mental command "produce unit" becomes "execute production cycle".
I'm glad to know you play terran, though, since it's unit hotkeys are more flexible than protoss, so it's not so big of a deal.
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On January 10 2012 22:07 FoxyMayhem wrote:
That's odd, because tabbed production usually helps players remember to produce from those structures better. Whenever they think "produce unit" from any of the structures, having them all on the same hotkey becomes a cue to produce from all of the structures, so the mental command "produce unit" becomes "execute production cycle".
I'm glad to know you play terran, though, since it's unit hotkeys are more flexible than protoss, so it's not so big of a deal.
Maybe it's because i'm slow, it's like I'm making marines, then something happens, so I switch my attention to that, then I have to micro (for example)... Then I forget to produce >_>, mainly because while something like that happens I feel like it's too much to go back to production, use tab, then the letter to produce and tab again and the letter (idk it's easier for me to remember numbers than use tab). But seriously, with your grid layout now I can build easier and do other stuff faster, I know this will help increase my apm for sure, I just need to play more.
Again thanks, you're the best <3.
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Where can I find the 1.3 "Pro" Protoss setup for download? There is no in skydrive. 
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EPT
