• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:06
CET 21:06
KST 05:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1791 users

[G] The Structure of An Effective Opening Build - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
December 04 2011 19:32 GMT
#61
On December 02 2011 23:20 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 17:59 Tobberoth wrote:
I would also like some advice what to do against early pressure. I've been training the build a bit against GTAI (but it's quite similar to what I've been using standard), and I find that it's quite hard to hold if a protoss does early pushing with either zealots or stalkers. It's IMO quite hard to scout since even if I run 2 lings up the ramp to look at composition, the toss can easily hide his army and make it look like he's preparing to expand or go tech. Even if I see as he moves out, it takes way too long to build spine crawlers even if you start immediately, they won't even be 50% done when he reaches your base on many maps.

I realize you can still hold it if your injects are wellsynced and you don't spam drones when you're in the dark, but maybe you have some general advice how to make this easier, since right now, I feel extremely vulnurable around the time I put down the roach warren.

Well he's either expanding or doing a 1base all-in (typically a 4gate zealot/stalker). If you scout early with a drone and steal the gas like I recommend, you'll see his nexus energy - if he's not using any chronoboosts except the first 2 on probes, he's probably going to 4gate you. In that case, make sure you get a 3rd queen and start 3-4 spines at your expansion right away (The first warp-in of most 4gates hit at about 5:45-6:15minute, but you can delay this if your speedlings find his proxy pylon). You won't be able to get roaches out for the first wave or 2, you have to rely solely on spines and speedlings but when you can, move into roach/ling to defend.
Once you've held the pressure, scout his expansion (You should have an overlord around there to fly in and see) and if he's going for an expansion, go for a big roach/ling push as he'll have too few sentries to hold it. If he's not expanding, get a spore at the front, +1, a few drones, and continue to build more roaches with evolution chambers in front of spines.
The most important thing is that early drone scout - seeing his nexus energy and whether he took a 2nd gas. Another hint is if he builds a stalker instead of a sentry after his first zealot, but that's not ALWAYS a 4gate.

Well, I was speaking mainly of 2-3 warpgates, build 2-3 stalkers and push, forcing you to make lings very early.

Anyway, I've gotten better at defending early pushes and I've now noticed my main issue: air. I played a bo7 with my diamond friend, he lost to the ling roach push the first game, then owned me every game afterwards. It just seems that even if you steal gas and try to get the roaches out really quickly, the toss can easily have his stargates running already, and once they are out, you can't really do much. You can put down an evo chamber and spit out spores, but that ruins your economy and the toss has no reason to attack you, they just need to keep you on two bases and win. You lose 100% of your map control since lings/roaches are kinda bad vs air.

How do you transition out of the roaches? Do you go hydras defensively and give the toss map control, or do you go into two base muta? I feel it's very hard to take a third since the toss can attack you before it's up, so you really can't get the drones to use it.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
December 05 2011 20:45 GMT
#62
well if you're doing the roach/ling midgame push, it's even better if he tries to do 3gate pressure because then you're fighting him without cannons whereas you'd normally be fighting him in his base. As for stargate, sometimes players will 1gate expand into stargate and you can usually delay the expansion with your push.
Keep in mind that while voidrays are strong against roachling, that's a lot of resources that aren't giong into a ground army so if you're pressuring hard enough sometimes you'll still kill him outright or at least force him to be defensive with voidrays, which gives you time to take a 3rd. I like hydra/roach/ling pushes (with a nydus outside the protoss base) in the midgame against stargate protoss sinceit's hard for them to hold without colossus.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 562
UpATreeSC 165
BRAT_OK 139
ProTech135
JuggernautJason86
SKillous 69
FoxeR 39
Railgan 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2117
Mini 324
hero 31
NaDa 19
Dota 2
qojqva2013
Dendi496
syndereN200
Pyrionflax122
League of Legends
C9.Mang0145
Counter-Strike
FalleN 2501
fl0m1897
Fnx 1371
rGuardiaN51
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu406
Other Games
Grubby4546
Beastyqt993
FrodaN935
B2W.Neo498
allub273
Fuzer 221
Livibee145
QueenE139
ArmadaUGS131
summit1g87
Liquid`Ken16
OptimusSC26
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 27
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH101
• Reevou 6
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 26
• FirePhoenix18
• Pr0nogo 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1131
Other Games
• imaqtpie1865
• Shiphtur300
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
4h 54m
The PondCast
13h 54m
OSC
14h 54m
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs Solar
MaxPax vs TBD
Krystianer vs TBD
ShoWTimE vs TBD
Big Brain Bouts
2 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-19
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Proleague 2026-01-20
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.