EPThttp://drop.sc/77380
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 97
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
http://drop.sc/77380 | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
You probably won't ever see a FFE again...but 2rax or marauder pressure should be at 6:00 or earlier, way before any colossus or really any number of gateway units. The last time I saw an FFE expand in TvP, I got my expansion up (1 rax FE), and teched straight to medivacs. The fact is, he's delayed his army and tech sooo long that a full double medivac drop can essentially wipe the entire base clean. The other option is I guess cloaked banshees, as he should have a really, really late robo (Or elsehe won't have any units at all) and then line up the probes. | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
I can't win tvz anymore. I just can't. Please explain what I'm supposed to do in this matchup? Mutalisks are too good | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
You need to even up your saturation to maximise income. Either rally both CC to your natural or maynard more SCV over. Did you not expect him to make mutas? It's pretty standard, especially if you don't see roaches. I would have been very tempted to push when the mutas came, it's a fair bet he doesn't have that much left at home, if you can draw the mutas away, you can get make to mining and put some turrets up. I think you stimmed a little too much and too pre-emptively considering how few medivacs you had. | ||
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On December 21 2011 18:44 Kid-Fox wrote: http://drop.sc/77398 I can't win tvz anymore. I just can't. Please explain what I'm supposed to do in this matchup? Mutalisks are too good Just going to write down everything you could improve 1) Don't scout at 12, if you want to be able to get a bunker down you can scout at 13 or even 14 on maps like shattered. If you're not going for an early bunker, then scout with the SCV that made the barracks (15 supply). 2) 3 hellions aren't going to do anything for you. You need at least 6 to truly pressure Zerg and keep map control. Most Pro Terrans get 6 hellions and then transition into whatever, but they keep the 6 hellions alive in front of the Zerg base to deny creep, damage queens, or maybe even find a hole to run in and kill drones. I've made it a habit if getting 6 hellions and keeping them alive for as long as possible, and I would say in about 40% of my TvZ games I manage to run in and kill a decent amount of drones with them when the Zerg is playing sloppy, or kill a bunch of queens. 3) Bad Supply block at 54 :/ 4) You were floating a lot of minerals early on. Just get a fast 3rd CC, or double engi bay or more barracks early on. I love to just get a fast 3rd base after my 6 hellions and then get 4 extra rax followed by double engi bays. If I keep my hellions alive, then after a few minutes my production is insane (4 reactor rax 1 tech lab) and i get fast upgrades with fast 3rd base. 5) your first push could have literally killed him. Scan his nat area before you push to see if he even has anything ready. If he just started morphing blings just run into his nat and kill him! 6) You should have at least 1 turret in each mineral line up by 11 mins. Even if you don't know that he's got a spire, I would still get them. Then you can add on more everywhere once you know for sure. 7) Start leaving a group of 15~ marines back at your base when you see mutas. Without them your lone turrets will get picked off, and then everyone will go downhill very fast. 8) Your macro was in general quite poor. You should have at least 5 rax by the time you're taking your third, but ideally you should already be building 3~ more. This + supply blocks meant that you were floating too much and your army was simply too small. | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:09 Scila wrote: 2) 3 hellions aren't going to do anything for you. You need at least 6 to truly pressure Zerg and keep map control. Most Pro Terrans get 6 hellions and then transition into whatever Personnally, I see 4 Hellions more often. It's a matter of taste, I'd say. | ||
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GzStrom
South Africa51 Posts
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
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GzStrom
South Africa51 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On December 22 2011 07:59 Scila wrote: Hey guys, just wondering if anyone could point me towards a delayed 1/1/1 build in TvP? Like where you expand early on and then your 1/1/1 push is a little bit later. I guess it's not even a 1/1/1 if you get more rax but I think that's what the build is called... The "macro-oriented" 1/1/1 that's been around for a while is Warden's TvP Deathball (link) which served me will in Diamond league before I switched over to a more standard play. I'm sure this is viable in Master League as well, since Warden himself is an excellent player. This is basically a 1-1-1 that incorporates marauders, hellions, and vikings in addition to the usual 1-1-1 units. On December 22 2011 16:38 ThaSlayer wrote: When going for a CC first build, is it better to stop scv production at 14 and throw down the cc or at 15 (continuing scv production)? Thanks It's probably matchup and map-dependent. I only ever CC first on Tal'Darim Altar against Zerg, and that's it. I don't cut any scvs when doing so. Against Protoss or another Terran it might be beneficial to cut an scv or two for a faster CC or Rax, especially on a map smaller than Tal'Darim Altar. On December 22 2011 19:09 hersenen wrote: What are some good gas sinks in TvZ, provided you've started upgrades and have constant tank production already? I like getting +1 vehicle weapons to let my tanks 1-shot upgraded zerglings. Medivacs are another good option, as well as making an additional factory (if you're on 3+ bases). If you are doing double upgrades, constant tank production, and constant medivac production, all on 2 bases and still have extra gas, I think you're taking your extra gasses too early. | ||
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ForeverCopper
United States1 Post
Thanks in advance! | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On December 22 2011 16:38 ThaSlayer wrote: When going for a CC first build, is it better to stop scv production at 14 and throw down the cc or at 15 (continuing scv production)? Thanks 14 is better because you use your CC for the supply, just delaying a bit your marine. Scout after you start your CC and it should be tight. | ||
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PolishxThunder
United States153 Posts
How am I supposed to deal with just pure A-move mass zergling and banelings. I'm finding out that tanks don't work when it's 200/200 coming down to your base. Hellions? Should I throw down like 2 factories with reactors and pump out marine tank medivac and hellions? | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
Hi I am a diamond player struggling with T v P and I just cant seem to get ahead if protoss contains me at my natural. I opened up with conc pressure and protoss did a 3 gate into robo, warping in mass zealots and sentries and containing me. I fell behind economically and was way below in workers, despite holding off the attack. Could anyone watch this replay and give me some tips on how my T v P player? thank you! | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
How many barracks/starports/factories can you support per base in TvZ? And how many of those barracks are reactored or tech labs? If you're going mech in TvT or TvZ how many factories can you support per base and how many are reactored/tech labs? I know there's a calculator somewhere for this but it seemed really archaic and broken, and I want to know what the pros build per base. | ||
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Onox
United States1072 Posts
I've been having a really hard time TVP, I don't know what is is but if it goes past 20 minutes I just start to lose. Anyways I had trouble with this army comp of Phoenix+collossus+ sentry + stalker. I tried going Viking/Marauder but it just didn't seem to work. I would appreciate any help on how I could of won this game or just dealing with protoss in general. Thanks | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
Your opening is not optimised for the map. You are cross spawns on a a very large map and you go for a big 4 rax push, this is just so unlikely to work. It's a great strategy on smaller maps or closer spawns (or maps with open naturals), but you just end up so behind on tech if it fails. Your starport is severely delayed, as a result he has 4 colossi out before you get your first vikings, and you have no medivacs at all. Your push doesn't do too badly as the protoss has awful micro, but it is soundly beaten and the game is practically lost at that point. Too add insult to injury he also has phoenix, which means you need even more vikings than usual. You eventually get up to quadruple viking production, but far too late in the game, also your third and upgrades are disgustingly late. Cross spawn on a large map, you should plan for the long game. Don't bank on a 4rax timing, do what he did and get 3 bases with upgrades and tech so you have a fearsome 200/200 army. | ||
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DelugeSC
United States96 Posts
On December 23 2011 19:31 hersenen wrote: Provided you're going Bio in TvP, how many barracks/starports can you support per base provided the base is fully saturated? How many of the barracks are reactored and how many are tech labs? How many barracks/starports/factories can you support per base in TvZ? And how many of those barracks are reactored or tech labs? If you're going mech in TvT or TvZ how many factories can you support per base and how many are reactored/tech labs? I know there's a calculator somewhere for this but it seemed really archaic and broken, and I want to know what the pros build per base. In general a handy rule to use is 3 production facilities per saturated base. This doesn't count tech buildings such as a factory not being used but built to get Starports. Late game you can have more since you aren't building as many SCVs as you are army and upgrades. Many mixed army compositions off of two base come from 3 Barracks, 2 Factories, 1 Starport. It doesn't matter so much about Tech Labs and Reactors since the general cost/round will be about even. Add-ons are dependent on the army composition that you want. For Mech in TvT or TvZ you can support up to about 3 per base, the same as any other production facility, provided you are only using Factories. To use Viking support build 2 Factories and a Starport per base. | ||
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