EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 74
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:29 ThaSlayer wrote: I've been doing naked 1 rax 1 fact pressure vs zerg into mech. What is a correct follow up if zerg decides to go roach and contain me? dunno if its what you are looking for but starport is real good vs aggressive roach styles. 1 defensive banshee means they can't contain you. 1 viking vs a roach player will give you map/overlord control until he gets muta. if he is investing in a roach contain then he won't have muta till late. so i'd say starport then transition to whatever you like. | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:58 ahw wrote: dunno if its what you are looking for but starport is real good vs aggressive roach styles. 1 defensive banshee means they can't contain you. 1 viking vs a roach player will give you map/overlord control until he gets muta. if he is investing in a roach contain then he won't have muta till late. so i'd say starport then transition to whatever you like. Do i need to worry about mutas then? | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
its starcraft, you've got to worry about everything... but if he is containing you with roach off 2 base, its safe to say he won't have the gas to support muta for quite a while. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
Personally having played your build before, I consider reactor hellion pressure to be much better of an option. Roach contain isn't really a thing....Siege tanks, banshees, and medivacs can all get out of this easily. Mutas you only have to worry about by 10:00 if he played standard and more delayed based on how much gas he spent before. | ||
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kygen
Sweden2 Posts
Like a custom map or somthing? Thanks! | ||
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
On November 21 2011 06:48 Willzzz wrote: Erm yeah ofc, terran can always just retreat vs protosss, unless I suppose they have blink stalkers, but that's not exactly common. You just have to think carefully before engaging in a choke vs sentries. But you can very easily pressure with any number of builds without really risking anything. You could try 2 rax into expand, or 1 rax FE into 4 rax, or 1 rax FE into fast drops. Or of course what MVP did in his last game vs MC, FE into marine tank bunker. I tried every build you said Ok I tried 1 rax concussive shells, but it usually get doomed by a counter attack from protoss who will go 3 gate blind void ray. He just got to stall to do it. Second , 2 rax fe isn't likely to make damage, because if protoss just pull some probes (3-4) to do dmg he won't suffer too much from the battle, while I would have lost way more (at least 6 marines and 2 marauders) Got to try 1 rax fe into 4 rax ( likely hoping that protoss won't just enter the ramp and go away from my bunkers walling the entrance), or 1 rax fe, where protoss will likely have a tech advantage and burn everything I got with mere colossi. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 21 2011 17:06 kygen wrote: Is there anny map were you can practice Ghost snipe vs BroodL? Like a custom map or somthing? Thanks! I'd recommend using a Unit Test Map-- this is probably going to be the easiest. On November 21 2011 17:12 Sergio1992 wrote: I tried every build you said Ok I tried 1 rax concussive shells, but it usually get doomed by a counter attack from protoss who will go 3 gate blind void ray. He just got to stall to do it. Second , 2 rax fe isn't likely to make damage, because if protoss just pull some probes (3-4) to do dmg he won't suffer too much from the battle, while I would have lost way more (at least 6 marines and 2 marauders) Got to try 1 rax fe into 4 rax ( likely hoping that protoss won't just enter the ramp and go away from my bunkers walling the entrance), or 1 rax fe, where protoss will likely have a tech advantage and burn everything I got with mere colossi. If you're having difficulty with those builds, post some replays and I'd be glad to take a look. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On November 21 2011 06:10 Chaggi wrote: I'm a bit confused at end game TvP, when the Protoss has a death ball, how do I go about engaging it? Say like 4-5 Collosi and like 8~ templars with a mix of stalkers and chargelots I'd have like a bio ball with ghosts, vikings and medivacs. Probably 8~ ghosts, and like 10-12 vikings. I've been getting in this situation quite a bit and seem to come out on the losing side quite a bit. Just my opinon, there comes a point when the deathball just becomes impossible to engage head on and win. (Usually when they're 3/3/3 and have that sweet balance of Colo and HT. If it ever comes to that point I'd do what MVP did against MC in game 2 Antiga, split my army in half, do a massive drop and hit a distant base with the other half. You're effectively in a MarineKing style mindset now and need to abuse the mobility of your bio, forcing base races if really need be. Terran has amazing base race advantages anyway. My current mindset when I play TvPs: Opener (1 rax gasless FE, 2 rax 1t1r pressure, or all in? (3 rax, 2 rax 1 fact, 1-1-1) > 1st timing attack or all-in ( time it to hit before Colo or Templar tech) > Turtle ( If they go double forge, which they will, they'll have 2/2 with 3/3 on the way while you're working on 2/2 > Abuse mobility and base race when 3/3 is done. | ||
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
On November 21 2011 17:39 Blazinghand wrote: I'd recommend using a Unit Test Map-- this is probably going to be the easiest. If you're having difficulty with those builds, post some replays and I'd be glad to take a look. nvm | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
On November 21 2011 17:12 Sergio1992 wrote: I tried every build you said Ok I tried 1 rax concussive shells, but it usually get doomed by a counter attack from protoss who will go 3 gate blind void ray. He just got to stall to do it. Second , 2 rax fe isn't likely to make damage, because if protoss just pull some probes (3-4) to do dmg he won't suffer too much from the battle, while I would have lost way more (at least 6 marines and 2 marauders) Got to try 1 rax fe into 4 rax ( likely hoping that protoss won't just enter the ramp and go away from my bunkers walling the entrance), or 1 rax fe, where protoss will likely have a tech advantage and burn everything I got with mere colossi. For 2 rax FE, if Protoss is pulling probes to help fight then you've succeeded in pressuring him. There's no reason for you to lose all your units here unless you choose to trade. If he FE'd, bring an SCV to start a bunker next to his Nexus and force him to engage on your terms or lose his Nexus. If he pulls probes, snipe what you can and then retreat. If he didn't FE, poke a bit but don't over commit. If you blindly move up his main's ramp you risk getting forcefielded and losing all your units. You'll be ahead if you expanded before him so retreat and throw up a bunker or two if he's 1 basing. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On November 21 2011 17:12 Sergio1992 wrote: I tried every build you said Ok I tried 1 rax concussive shells, but it usually get doomed by a counter attack from protoss who will go 3 gate blind void ray. He just got to stall to do it. Second , 2 rax fe isn't likely to make damage, because if protoss just pull some probes (3-4) to do dmg he won't suffer too much from the battle, while I would have lost way more (at least 6 marines and 2 marauders) Got to try 1 rax fe into 4 rax ( likely hoping that protoss won't just enter the ramp and go away from my bunkers walling the entrance), or 1 rax fe, where protoss will likely have a tech advantage and burn everything I got with mere colossi. I never suggested 1 rax conc. If he has to pull probes then your pressure worked, pressure isn't so much about doing damage, but just keeping him honest so he can't go for some super greedy build. 1 rax fe into 4 rax is super safe because you have so many marines so early, you should never need bunkers if you add the rax on early. But it does mean you will need to a little damage to him if he also FEs. 90% of the time 1 rax FE is met by 1 gate FE, so your tech is at the same place. If he stays on 1 base all you have to do is hold his attack and you win. Colossi just aren't scary in small numbers, by the time he has a decent number you have vikings. What league are you btw? | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 23 2011 01:50 Lazerlike42 wrote: What am I supposed to do versus mass Colossi? I can handle it when a Protoss has 2 or 3. Even against 4 or 5 I understand the concept of dealing with it, even if I can't usually micro well enough to pull it off. However, in many games my opponent will get 7, 8, 9, or even 10 colossus, at which point I am at a total loss as to what to do. It seems like no amount of vikings can kill them fast enough to save my bio army, and the number of other units they can have even with this many colossus means that I can't just send in the vikings alone as they easily die before more than a scant few colossus are killed. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! It sounds Colossi are not really the problem, by no means a Protoss player should be allowed to get that many Colossi unchallenged (i. e. you're probably playing too passive in some way). Would you mind posting a replay of you losing to this ? | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
On November 23 2011 01:54 TheDwf wrote: It sounds Colossi are not really the problem, by no means a Protoss player should be allowed to get that many Colossi unchallenged (i. e. you're probably playing too passive in some way). Would you mind posting a replay of you losing to this ? Well, even 5 colossus is just something I have a hard time with. The micro required is just too much for me at times, even though I practice it a great deal. And yes, I know that the easy answer is to not allow a Protoss to get that many colossus. The problem is that some games you have the edge and are able to control things, whereas in other games you really can't control things just because you get slightly behind somewhere along the line or in general he has you on the ropes. The most common scenario that leads to this is that I scout colossus, but do not have enough vikings to engage what he already has. Thus I need to delay, which gives him time to make more, and eventually it gets out of hand. I try to drop to set him back economically or to kill the robotics bay, but this does not work nearly consistently enough. In the end it leads to either my army size going down from losing the drop, or to him immediately attacking when I still am not prepared for even a relatively small colossus number. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
Of course this is difficult, it relies on you knowing where the protoss army is at all times, if you don't need the minerals scans can help you do this. It also means your army needs to be ready to engage the moment the protoss enters your chosen area. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 23 2011 02:12 Lazerlike42 wrote: Well, even 5 colossus is just something I have a hard time with. The micro required is just too much for me at times, even though I practice it a great deal. And yes, I know that the easy answer is to not allow a Protoss to get that many colossus. The problem is that some games you have the edge and are able to control things, whereas in other games you really can't control things just because you get slightly behind somewhere along the line or in general he has you on the ropes. The most common scenario that leads to this is that I scout colossus, but do not have enough vikings to engage what he already has. Thus I need to delay, which gives him time to make more, and eventually it gets out of hand. I try to drop to set him back economically or to kill the robotics bay, but this does not work nearly consistently enough. In the end it leads to either my army size going down from losing the drop, or to him immediately attacking when I still am not prepared for even a relatively small colossus number. One thing I do when I realize my opponent is really committing colossi (like, making more than 3 or 4) is slapping down a 2nd starport. The ability to make 3x viking, or 2x viking 1x medivac, helps a great deal. As I start to hit 150+ food, I begin mostly producing marauders and ghosts, and gradually "recycling" marine food out of my army by sending them on drops, leaving me with a high-tech army of marauders with a healthy dose of ghosts, vikings, and medivacs. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 23 2011 02:12 Lazerlike42 wrote:Well, even 5 colossus is just something I have a hard time with. The micro required is just too much for me at times, even though I practice it a great deal. And yes, I know that the easy answer is to not allow a Protoss to get that many colossus. The problem is that some games you have the edge and are able to control things, whereas in other games you really can't control things just because you get slightly behind somewhere along the line or in general he has you on the ropes. The most common scenario that leads to this is that I scout colossus, but do not have enough vikings to engage what he already has. Thus I need to delay, which gives him time to make more, and eventually it gets out of hand. I try to drop to set him back economically or to kill the robotics bay, but this does not work nearly consistently enough. In the end it leads to either my army size going down from losing the drop, or to him immediately attacking when I still am not prepared for even a relatively small colossus number. You do not necessarily have to engage as soon as you see Colossi. Consider getting a second Starport, with Reactor if necessary (lift one of your Reactor Barracks and build Starport), if you scout Colossi "too late" or if he makes more than, say, 4 Colossi. It's difficult to be more specific without replay, but if you're losing because your opponent goes Colossi after securing an advantage, the problem is not so much Colossi as how he got that (early ?) advantage. Bear in mind that assuming perfect Chronoboosts, each Robotics builds one Colossus every 50 seconds, whereas you can get one Viking every 21 / 14 / 10,5 seconds with one Reactor Starport / one RStarport + one naked Starport / two Reactor Starports.If he's slowly building his Colossus army, you should have time to react. | ||
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sOm
United States43 Posts
On November 23 2011 03:23 TheDwf wrote: You do not necessarily have to engage as soon as you see Colossi. Consider getting a second Starport, with Reactor if necessary (lift one of your Reactor Barracks and build Starport), if you scout Colossi "too late" or if he makes more than, say, 4 Colossi. It's difficult to be more specific without replay, but if you're losing because your opponent goes Colossi after securing an advantage, the problem is not so much Colossi as how he got that (early ?) advantage. Bear in mind that assuming perfect Chronoboosts, each Robotics builds one Colossus every 50 seconds, whereas you can get one Viking every 21 / 14 / 7 seconds with one Reactor Starport / one RStarport + one naked Starport / two Reactor Starports.If he's slowly building his Colossus army, you should have time to react. Can you give me more detail on the 21/14/7 every seconds definition? Is that just a number factored down to avg? | ||
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