EPTOn October 15 2012 08:06 dArkko wrote:
My dear terran friends, i need your help about it
My dear terran friends, i need your help about it
What the fuck is this shit?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 379
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
What the fuck is this shit? | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:39 duckmaster wrote: Hello, I can't win a single TvZ nowadays (playing Hellion/Banshee). In every single game my opponent actually blind counters cloaked banshees, like there's always spores up when I arrive and in fact most of the time they just go for quick mutas. Can anyone suggest me another build, perhaps some kind of hellion opening with a bunch of barracks? Or I'd be happy with an all-in build as well. Actually, even a build that opens 1rax FE into hellions but foregoes the banshees completely sounds pretty good considering the zerg is going to build the spores anyway. Note: I'm aware that hellion/banshee is still potent even if the zerg reads it like a book, it's just that when they do that it basically forces a super long macro game (I won't have a single timing in the next 15 minutes) which I honestly can't be arsed with in the current metagame. Yes, you should expect Zergs to have a Spore Crawler at their mineral lines when Cloak is complete. This does not mean you are being “blind countered,” though, as the point with Cloak is to make your Banshees invulnerable outside Spores' detection range. It means that until Lair, your Banshees can still hit Queens uncontested wherever there are no Spore Crawlers, which is very useful if you play mech as a follow-up (because you keep on producing Banshees) since Queens often have to travel between bases to defend your Hellions. I would say getting Cloak is less interesting if you intend to play Marines/Tanks after. If you want to skip Starport and Banshees, you can add an earlier third, then dual EB and +2 Barracks after. On October 13 2012 18:07 Sianos wrote: I asume you are talking about 1 base plays, since 2 base stalker plays should be easily handled with you bio and stim. Handling blink stalker allins or warpprism allins is actually pretty easy. The first thing you have to do is to look for 2 gas before nexus with your scouting scv. 4g Prism usually comes out of 1 gas. On October 13 2012 18:07 Sianos wrote: The next thing to look for is a nexus between 6 and 6:30. And upon scouting one gas, you should worry about no expand at the 5' mark. (Just adding.) On October 13 2012 18:07 Sianos wrote: Your reaction to it is to just give up your natrual. Lift your OC, salvage your bunkers and camp in your main base. Build 2 bunker on top of your ramp and stop muling, since you´ll have arround 30 scvs on your main base already. Instead safe your energy in case of dts and use it for supply calldowns. You´ll be surprised how easy it is to hold tech allins, when you are in your main base. From here you want to wait for stim and medivacs, since if you can get them, you have won the game. Even if he decides to expand after seeing you retreat and just ff your ramp, you are way ahead of your opponent once your medivacs are out and stim is ready. Just do it like this everytime you scout 2 gas and no nexus between 6 and 6:30 and you´ll win aggainst a lot of allins (dts, void rays, blink stalker, immortal) easily. To me you should leave your natural as a last resort, first because by lifting up you give up valuable income and second because it allows the Protoss to contain you and expand behind it—I'm talking about Blink Stalkers here. If your defence is not perfect, it's very easy for Protoss to catch up with a ~8' expand even if you don't evacuate your natural, because your Medivacs are delayed by Marauder production, you lose some SCVs and/or troops here and there, so your delayed Medivac timing may not be enough to kill him. Besides, since they have a Robotics and a Twilight Council, they're only a building away from teching AoE—not to mention that they already have Blink to deal with your drops. Personally, I loathe surviving a Blink Stalker “all-in” just to find that my opponent dealt enough damage to secure a macro transition, and retreating at once in your main means Protoss is free to cut Stalker production to get a Nexus. On October 13 2012 18:48 Sianos wrote: Well scouting really depends on the matchup. While scouting you want to look for things your opponent can´t be doing or can be doing. For example if you play a TvP and see a nexus first, your opponent can´t do the 4 gate allin build, since for the allin he needs early gas to research warpgate. If you are playing aggainst zerg and you see, that he takes a gas before his natrual, that most likely means that he will have fast zergling speed for mapcontroll or that he will doing a roach or baneling allin. If you see a hatch first and no gas, he can´t do a roach attack or baneling attack since he needs gas for the build. Zergs can get dual gas after they take care of your scouting SCV, so scouting no gas does not mean he will not be agressive. On October 14 2012 05:39 kuroshiroi wrote: Another question, TvT, I go 1 rax FE, opponent goes 1 rax 3OC. Assuming I scout this at 6 minutes with a scan, how do I approach the rest of the game if I don't want to get steamrolled by macro. 2 medivac drop at 10 mins good enough? No, it will not do anything as your opponent will easily match your Marine count and even exceed it since he will have two additional production cycles at home while you cross the map. Just build your third on its location and retain map control / better position thanks to your slightly faster tech. On October 15 2012 03:15 Sianos wrote: Yes, bio is viable but you need to play a lot more aggressive in the early and mid game. This means a lot of drops and multi pronged attacks and incredible fast expanding through the whole game. However if your opponent is playing very passive, you can´t do much on most maps since when they get a big army and slowly leapfrog their tanks forward, you can´t engage them with your poor bio ball. It´s all about avoiding direct engagements or engaging while the tanks are unsieged, which is impossible on most maps if your opponent is playing good. It´s a very micro and multitask intensive style where you need a lot of APM, since you have to micro your bio on different fronts and consistently macroing. If you make 1 or 2 mistakes in either macro or micro you have no chance of winning against competent players. If your splitting is bad, you´ll loose every engagement. If you forget to build units, supply or additional production while microing you´ll be outnumbered. My question: Why trying to play this style when marine-tank is way easier and works even better? If you really don´t like marine-tank, just play mech. Pure bio is not viable against Marines/Tanks. You have zero advantage and too many drawbacks. On October 15 2012 05:44 Dvriel wrote: OK. I was told that Mech doesnt work in TvT.Dont like Marine+Tank,because everyone is playing it,thats all.Gonna check the new Echoic TvT,but where is it? I cant find it on TL threads.Any link,please? Mech does work in TvT. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
THE MAN THE LEGEND JESUS MAN WHY DID THEY NERF BFH | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
http://drop.sc/264799 I'm not too sure what to do once he gets that composition. I should've been more aggressive but I'm not sure how much it would've mattered. I still don't know how to engage a broodlord / infestor comp w/ ling + corruptor backing it up | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 15 2012 17:20 Chaggi wrote: can someone take a look at this tvz for me? http://drop.sc/264799 I'm not too sure what to do once he gets that composition. I should've been more aggressive but I'm not sure how much it would've mattered. I still don't know how to engage a broodlord / infestor comp w/ ling + corruptor backing it up Play like a zerg and get ravens lol... Brb watching replay. Ok typing notes as I go First off, good job on denying that third. Second - your build order. Its fine, its cool, but you have a completely wrong idea about how hellion-banshee openers should work Before terrans started using hellion-banshee, it was simply hellion openers, which begun a downfall in its prime after the queen was buffed, and zergs started pre-emptively getting roaches, which also allowed them to pressure the terran really hard (roach-bane allin era) since we only had hellion+marines to hold. During this time, the 14cc was also getting more and more popular, but the thing is, TvZ is a matchup where we constantly pressure and try to dictate the battlefield as much as possible from early on to end game, since if the zerg gains the upperhand, it becomes increasingly difficult to fight against (IM NOT TALKING ABOUT MECH). Hellion openers could no longer control the map as much as the terran wants to, hellion marines dont do well against roach-bane either, and fast tank after 14cc basically gave the map to zerg and couldnt pressure until the zerg is well saturated and was really a shit build unless you did something cute with the marines (CS timings) Then the pros started to all transition heavily onto hellion banshee - both agile, fast units that dealt very strong damage if controlled correctly. Roaches and banelings couldnt hold a candle against the banshees, and a good bunch of hellions meant no map control at all for the zerg - this meant a really hard to take third. Queens? Queens can deal with hellions fine. Queens can deal with banshees fine. Queens CANNOT deal with BOTH of them at the same time without serious backup, and if the zerg is being greedy and didnt upgrade the hatchery for overseers, cloaked banshees would simply fuck up everything that wasnt in range of a spore crawler - meaning the zerg had to do some serious defense, and simply hold until mutas come out (~11:00 at least). Just by forcing units/spores, damaging/sniping queens, preventing creep spread and being a completely dick about it is enough pressure economically and psychologically for the zerg when up against a good controller. Now back to your game. Your hellions took a shit at home and the banshee didnt move out until 10:40 (achieved nothing). End of story. If you arent going to control the map and pressure with them you might as well open up marine tank or marine marauder. Im not saying the zergs reaction isnt hilarious however. You showed your banshee for ONE SECOND, sniped ONE ZERGLING and he throws up NINE SPORES. LOL. Do you see how scary hellion banshee is for the zerg to cause this kind of reaction? But you played super passively with them. You might as well have opened up straight marine marauder tank and probably ended up having a lot more stuff. You might have denied his third once but that was the end of all pressure. With no early pressure, no map control whatsoever, by the time you moved out (15:00) the zerg was already on full saturation and the greater spire was morphing already, with creep spread halfway across the map You never scanned/dropped main to see his tech, resulting in a pretty blind play from you. You failed to dictate the battlefield, which shows just how little you understand on the TvZ matchup and why builds work. I stopped watching from the 16th minute point on as there really wasnt much to see. My suggestion? If you want to use hellion banshee, practice pressuring HARD with it. Yes your macro will fuck up a lot, this is why you practice with it until you can make all those units worth their cost while not sacrificing too much macro. You want to dictate the battlefield and force the zerg to make a shit ton of mutalisks or else sit and cry at how OP hellion banshees are, and by then you should have a ton of marines moving out to welcome his mutas with open arms. Dont give him half a second to breathe. Find a choke hold, and strangle the zerg. Not sit and let him play comfortably. You are a terran goddamn it. Im not saying your macro wasnt good and such. You probably do very well in TvP. But your approach to TvZ needs a little change. However, a few tips on playing passively with tanks with a really good econ. Basically you want to wall off every other route and force the zerg to come clean to you at one point of the map, where you will have walled off everywhere so you dont get swarmed by the zerg. Vs broodlords, if you didnt preemptively stockpile ravens, you'll want to hold him off as long as possible with some vikings until you can get that raven count up. Use PDDs + tanks to protect the ravens, and throw down turrets everywhere so your vikings have a fall back plan. Against a infestor-broodlord zerg, you WILL want to do as much drops as possible, especially when he hits 4 bases and its getting hard for him to fend off multiprongs. Your income was really strong, so you should probably have at least 5 starports, tons of barracks so you can throw away the MM on suicide sniping missions and still come back with a bunch more. Gas is key here. Save your tanks as much as possible so all the gas can go into raven production. That stuff aint cheap. If needed, get some ghosts and use them for black-ops (snipe infestors, multiprong nuke play etc etc), or simply to emp the infestors. DO NOT GET THORS AS A REACTION VS BROODLORD/CORRUPTER. YOU ARE NOT MECHING. YOU DO NOT HAVE VEHICLE ARMOR. YOU DONT NOT HAVE 10+ OF THEM. THEY ARE A TOTAL WASTE. If you lost tanks, GET MORE TANKS. In the end, itll still be the roach-zergling-banelings that kill you fast. Without tanks, these guys will fuck your ground in the ass so hard he wouldnt even have needed broodlords in the first place. Also, late game, always get building armor + range if you plan on using PFs to survive. Reduce their surface area as much as possible too (throw down random buildings around it) Simcity applies all game long, not just early game. EDIT: Language... | ||
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Demolicious
Australia38 Posts
On October 15 2012 17:20 Chaggi wrote: can someone take a look at this tvz for me? http://drop.sc/264799 I'm not too sure what to do once he gets that composition. I should've been more aggressive but I'm not sure how much it would've mattered. I still don't know how to engage a broodlord / infestor comp w/ ling + corruptor backing it up I think the guy before me(padfoota) was pretty good in his analysis of your replay. Obviously you can deal with brood/ infestor comp in a few ways , but there are some standards i go by that help me. One thing you should keep an eye on is brood/corrupter ratio. If really heavy corrupter. vikings are not as good, so keep them safe for later while trying to snipe stuff. If really heavy broodlord vikings will be great on being really aggressive so spread them out and try to engage in good spots. If playing mech ----> Have 2 - 4 starports with thors and ravens with seeker missile. Dont forget to always keep around 4-6 tanks to deal with infestors if they get too hungry. If playing bio/tank ----> General rule would be always have 3 starports before they even think about which tech they will go. Just so you can crank out vikings as needed. padfoota said to drop like a mad man too which is lovely. Don't be afraid to make over 20 vikings. Over produce them while you are learning and then you will get a better feel as you play more games. Oh and I think even if going bio, 1-2 thors is great! Just got to keep them alive like they are your own children trying to make their way in the world. And now you have to keep in mind the brood/ultra switches constantly haha! sc2 is crazy -EDIT- Just watched your replay too, another thing to note is he only had 63 drones, and you had 85 scvs. Thats how he managed to get a larger looking army. 85 scvs might be a bit too heavy. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 15 2012 22:50 Demolicious wrote: Oh and I think even if going bio, 1-2 thors is great! Just got to keep them alive like they are your own children trying to make their way in the world. Im a bio lover myself, and its either hellions (aoe vs ling baneling, hellion marauder hitsquad vs infestors) or thors (heavy muta players, fail micro = baneling tank) Thors are definitely awesome if you dont like tanks. Try dropping a thor and a bunch of marines behind his mineral line. You will NOT believe how fucking annoying it is for the zerg since the thor blocks every route and the marines rape shit. Also try dropping a 0/3 thor on top of a bunch of banelings. This is downright funny IMO. | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
4g Prism usually comes out of 1 gas. I personally never faced a 4gate warpprism with only 1 gas. Most times they take their 2nd gas shortly before i leave with my scv arround 4 minutes. However against Warpprism you should have a good supply depot spread to scout it comming and then attack it with your scvs AND your units and try to target their warpprism. From my experience warpprism allins are only strong when they can warp in a 2nd or 3rd round of units after they landed in your base. To me you should leave your natural as a last resort, first because by lifting up you give up valuable income and second because it allows the Protoss to contain you and expand behind it—I'm talking about Blink Stalkers here. If your defence is not perfect, it's very easy for Protoss to catch up with a ~8' expand even if you don't evacuate your natural, because your Medivacs are delayed by Marauder production, you lose some SCVs and/or troops here and there, so your delayed Medivac timing may not be enough to kill him. Besides, since they have a Robotics and a Twilight Council, they're only a building away from teching AoE—not to mention that they already have Blink to deal with your drops. Personally, I loathe surviving a Blink Stalker “all-in” just to find that my opponent dealt enough damage to secure a macro transition, and retreating at once in your main means Protoss is free to cut Stalker production to get a Nexus. From my epxerience there is no way that the protoss can do enough damage to you to recover when you evacuate your natural, since you basically half the attack paths of him. Your units are also very compact in the center to quickly attack the stalker once they blink in. You can even use your energy from your orbital to scan and kill the observers. In other words the optimal defense. Yes it may be true that your follow up drop play can´t do much, but you can build another oc in base and go up to 3 bases faster than him. He has to wait for his AOE units to get a 3rd base. If he does not wait for it you can do a lot of damage with frontal attacks. I don´t want to question your experience here but did you actually try to evacuate your natural? Zergs can get dual gas after they take care of your scouting SCV, so scouting no gas does not mean he will not be agressive Yes, that´s true. That´s something i really rarely see these days, but it´s possible. + Show Spoiler + Pure bio is not viable against Marines/Tanks. You have zero advantage and too many drawbacks. You are right here too. PURE bio is not viable but you can open bio in order to get into an aggressive position for faster expandtions and then transition into tanks. However it might be viable in leagues below master where people don´t invest enough in defenses. Tried it a few times with some wins here and there, but not enough to get around a 50% win ratio. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 16 2012 01:35 Sianos wrote: I personally never faced a 4gate warpprism with only 1 gas. Most times they take their 2nd gas shortly before i leave with my scv arround 4 minutes. However against Warpprism you should have a good supply depot spread to scout it comming and then attack it with your scvs AND your units and try to target their warpprism. From my experience warpprism allins are only strong when they can warp in a 2nd or 3rd round of units after they landed in your base. In my experience, warp prism 4gate comes out off 1 gas. The guide I've seen on this forum corroborates this observation. That being said, with depot spread and an scv pull (and constant marine production) a 1 rax FE can defend a WP 4gate, as Sianos has said. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Anyone with me :/ ? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 16 2012 01:51 Blazinghand wrote: If by "playing fair" you mean "fast expand into bio play", then I disagree-- there is a point to playing fair. Although I certainly enjoy playing non-standard TvP, there is something to be said for practicing your bio control as well. If you're ever in a tournament and need to play a Bo5 or Bo7, you can't simply cheese your way through every game. I mean like pressure/greedy builds into bio play. (hellion drop, single rax techlab marauder, 1rax double expand) Im fine with my bio control since I use bio in TvZ and I am pretty confident with late game mmmvg vs collsi triple aoe deathball. Ok I admit my micro + macro problems is brought to light in korean TvT (that shit is insane and much more coin flip skillwise than I ever thought TvT could be) I am NOT going to be playing in any tourneys. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 16 2012 03:04 iAmJeffReY wrote: I do only all ins in TvP. Banshee tank bio 3-1-2 or byun 2-1-1. I hate standard TvP with a passion. Or latel a 15 gas FE into a 3 hellion drop followed up with a 3 rax marine tank medic pushes. If they block the push i drop 2 more rax for a marauder marine tank viking push. Lol you are way more hardcore than me - I do a 50/50, either pressure into all in or pressure into standard. I just dont like the fact that Im giving the protoss a chance to 6/7/8gate/immo bust on my when I play nice :/ | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On October 15 2012 18:02 padfoota wrote: Play like a zerg and get ravens lol... Brb watching replay. Ok typing notes as I go First off, good job on denying that third. Second - your build order. Its fine, its cool, but you have a completely wrong idea about how hellion-banshee openers should work Before terrans started using hellion-banshee, it was simply hellion openers, which begun a downfall in its prime after the queen was buffed, and zergs started pre-emptively getting roaches, which also allowed them to pressure the terran really hard (roach-bane allin era) since we only had hellion+marines to hold. During this time, the 14cc was also getting more and more popular, but the thing is, TvZ is a matchup where we constantly pressure and try to dictate the battlefield as much as possible from early on to end game, since if the zerg gains the upperhand, it becomes increasingly difficult to fight against (IM NOT TALKING ABOUT MECH). Hellion openers could no longer control the map as much as the terran wants to, hellion marines dont do well against roach-bane either, and fast tank after 14cc basically gave the map to zerg and couldnt pressure until the zerg is well saturated and was really a shit build unless you did something cute with the marines (CS timings) Then the pros started to all transition heavily onto hellion banshee - both agile, fast units that dealt very strong damage if controlled correctly. Roaches and banelings couldnt hold a candle against the banshees, and a good bunch of hellions meant no map control at all for the zerg - this meant a really hard to take third. Queens? Queens can deal with hellions fine. Queens can deal with banshees fine. Queens CANNOT deal with BOTH of them at the same time without serious backup, and if the zerg is being greedy and didnt upgrade the hatchery for overseers, cloaked banshees would simply fuck up everything that wasnt in range of a spore crawler - meaning the zerg had to do some serious defense, and simply hold until mutas come out (~11:00 at least). Just by forcing units/spores, damaging/sniping queens, preventing creep spread and being a completely dick about it is enough pressure economically and psychologically for the zerg when up against a good controller. Now back to your game. Your hellions took a shit at home and the banshee didnt move out until 10:40 (achieved nothing). End of story. If you arent going to control the map and pressure with them you might as well open up marine tank or marine marauder. Im not saying the zergs reaction isnt hilarious however. You showed your banshee for ONE SECOND, sniped ONE ZERGLING and he throws up NINE SPORES. LOL. Do you see how scary hellion banshee is for the zerg to cause this kind of reaction? But you played super passively with them. You might as well have opened up straight marine marauder tank and probably ended up having a lot more stuff. You might have denied his third once but that was the end of all pressure. With no early pressure, no map control whatsoever, by the time you moved out (15:00) the zerg was already on full saturation and the greater spire was morphing already, with creep spread halfway across the map You never scanned/dropped main to see his tech, resulting in a pretty blind play from you. You failed to dictate the battlefield, which shows just how little you understand on the TvZ matchup and why builds work. I stopped watching from the 16th minute point on as there really wasnt much to see. My suggestion? If you want to use hellion banshee, practice pressuring HARD with it. Yes your macro will fuck up a lot, this is why you practice with it until you can make all those units worth their cost while not sacrificing too much macro. You want to dictate the battlefield and force the zerg to make a shit ton of mutalisks or else sit and cry at how OP hellion banshees are, and by then you should have a ton of marines moving out to welcome his mutas with open arms. Dont give him half a second to breathe. Find a choke hold, and strangle the zerg. Not sit and let him play comfortably. You are a terran goddamn it. Im not saying your macro wasnt good and such. You probably do very well in TvP. But your approach to TvZ needs a little change. However, a few tips on playing passively with tanks with a really good econ. Basically you want to wall off every other route and force the zerg to come clean to you at one point of the map, where you will have walled off everywhere so you dont get swarmed by the zerg. Vs broodlords, if you didnt preemptively stockpile ravens, you'll want to hold him off as long as possible with some vikings until you can get that raven count up. Use PDDs + tanks to protect the ravens, and throw down turrets everywhere so your vikings have a fall back plan. Against a infestor-broodlord zerg, you WILL want to do as much drops as possible, especially when he hits 4 bases and its getting hard for him to fend off multiprongs. Your income was really strong, so you should probably have at least 5 starports, tons of barracks so you can throw away the MM on suicide sniping missions and still come back with a bunch more. Gas is key here. Save your tanks as much as possible so all the gas can go into raven production. That stuff aint cheap. If needed, get some ghosts and use them for black-ops (snipe infestors, multiprong nuke play etc etc), or simply to emp the infestors. DO NOT GET THORS AS A REACTION VS BROODLORD/CORRUPTER. YOU ARE NOT MECHING. YOU DO NOT HAVE VEHICLE ARMOR. YOU DONT NOT HAVE 10+ OF THEM. THEY ARE A TOTAL WASTE. If you lost tanks, GET MORE TANKS. In the end, itll still be the roach-zergling-banelings that kill you fast. Without tanks, these guys will fuck your ground in the ass so hard he wouldnt even have needed broodlords in the first place. Also, late game, always get building armor + range if you plan on using PFs to survive. Reduce their surface area as much as possible too (throw down random buildings around it) Simcity applies all game long, not just early game. EDIT: Language... what if he puts up heavy defense around his bases, how would you break that with just a drop? i guess it's scary for me cause i think he can just use his lings to handle my drops, and his brood/infestor army just moves towards me also super super thanks for anyone helping with this, it's so annoying not to know how to play against this  | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On October 16 2012 01:46 padfoota wrote: With the variety of openers you can mindfuck protoss with, I dont see the point of playing fair in TvP anymore... Anyone with me :/ ? All is fair in love and starcraft  The objective of the game is not to make it easy for your opponent. I played a custom yesterday and the protoss left immediately upon scouting a 13 gas, what a wuss! Variety is the spice of life. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 16 2012 03:58 Chaggi wrote: what if he puts up heavy defense around his bases, how would you break that with just a drop? i guess it's scary for me cause i think he can just use his lings to handle my drops, and his brood/infestor army just moves towards me also super super thanks for anyone helping with this, it's so annoying not to know how to play against this If he has that much defense on every single base, then its already super late game for him and his bank is off the friggen chart. And you can probably ask Mvp that question as I remember him not knowing what to do against that too LOL | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
It based around constant aggression starting out with 1 rax gasless expand followed up by 2 additional rax, gas and a combat shield timing. My question is if anyone has tryed this against protoss? Do you find that its possible to do damage with this combat shield timing? I guess you would have to be on top of your scouting to make sure you dont get caught out on the map by some gateway pressure timing but with the current meta revolving alot around greed (atleast in my level, diamond) im interested in knowing if somebody has tryed this. | ||
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