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On June 20 2012 22:58 LSF wrote:I've had this done to me a couple of times on Entombed Valley in TvT: opponent sieges up in this position at the edge of my 3rd: ![[image loading]](http://s7.directupload.net/images/120620/ery82h2g.jpg) What's the best way to get rid of those tanks? In this game I chose to go around and attack from the bottom, since i had vision from medivacs and managed to barely clear it. However I've had other times where this led to gg quickly. Going head-on through the choke is probably not a good idea... try to drop in from the back of the 3rd?
Yeah, definitely do not attack into that choke. The most important part is that the first two seige volleys are hitting single units and not doing any AoE.
I would probably put the majority of my army to flank from behind, perhaps add some supply in a medivac and drop onto the tanks from the side and send the rest in from the front. You'd certainly want to flank that army, but if you felt that contain was even stronger, your best bet would just be to base trade or pull all SCVs and flank it.
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Hi!
I have two questions for you :
1) What are some TvP builds which are agressive but played out of 1rax expand? Like my bio tvz guide i want to be more agressive in tvp also and trading army etc. but not sitting at home till around 10:00 to wait for my medivacs or even longer if i go for the bomber style of play. Also i do not like the 2rax cause it is not really viable on some maps with 4 spawns and i have to do dmg early. I want to fall back onto an expansion 
2) Is there a list somewhere about Possible allin-Timings around all matchups and especially tvz also how to ideally scout them etc. does that exist?
Thank you very much for your help guys, really appreciate it!
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On June 21 2012 02:23 Enemyy wrote:What are some TvP builds which are agressive but played out of 1rax expand? Like my bio tvz guide i want to be more agressive in tvp also and trading army etc. but not sitting at home till around 10:00 to wait for my medivacs or even longer if i go for the bomber style of play. Also i do not like the 2rax cause it is not really viable on some maps with 4 spawns and i have to do dmg early. I want to fall back onto an expansion Thank you very much for your help guys, really appreciate it!
You can try going up to 5 rax after taking your expo and only 1 gas. This allows you to hit ~7/8 minutes with a lot of marines, preferably with combat shield. You have to do damage though otherwise you're pretty behind on tech.
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Hey guys, my first post here
I had a bit of a problem with a zerg build recently so i asked my zerg friend to learn it and use it against me, so we could both work out how to counter it. So a bit of back story, i dont like mech and i dont like hellion banshee transitioning in to marine tank anymore. So im looking for a new way to play i wanted to try bio, so i took my protoss build and altered it a bit to account for a zerg opponent and its been going pritty well. But against this build i cant win, and my zerg friend cant seem to figure it out either, there are a few things that happen. If i get 4 bunkers i still lose my natural and it just puts me behind the zerg, they can take a 3rd and just start droning and i cant do a thing about it or they can keep busting me untill im dead. i have tried maby 5 different combinations of the build like less marauders or stim first, but nothing works and its anoying me i dont wanna ladder knowing that a zerg can get a free win.
http://drop.sc/200580 (one of the game i played yesterday)
reddit couldnt help, they were talking about a build that hits at 11 minutes but this hits when my stim is half done ( around 8 minutes)
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On June 21 2012 02:23 Enemyy wrote:Hi! I have two questions for you : 1) What are some TvP builds which are agressive but played out of 1rax expand? Like my bio tvz guide i want to be more agressive in tvp also and trading army etc. but not sitting at home till around 10:00 to wait for my medivacs or even longer if i go for the bomber style of play. Also i do not like the 2rax cause it is not really viable on some maps with 4 spawns and i have to do dmg early. I want to fall back onto an expansion 2) Is there a list somewhere about Possible allin-Timings around all matchups and especially tvz also how to ideally scout them etc. does that exist? Thank you very much for your help guys, really appreciate it!
For 1, you might find this build interesting: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-445-p1-lastshadow-s-tvp-6rax-opening-6089546
It's a cc first build, but you might be able to get it to work with a 1 rax fe too.
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Hey! Can someone tell me what the proper response to a blink stalker allin is? Especially if you don't know whether it's blink stalker or dark templars or proxy voidray?
How many bunkers do i need to build, where to build them, how many tech labs and when, cancel stim and get concussive, add more rax, pull scvs if he blinks up and how many scvs, cut scv production and for how long?
I usually know that's one of these 3 allins because he has 2 gas and no expansion at 5:30. But i still almost always lose against the blinkstalker allin.
Mid-masters EU if that is important.
Thanks in advance!
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Against Blink Stalker allins you want to evacuate your Natural and place bunkers around the blinkable cliffs. Save a scan to snipe his obs so he can't blink into your main whenever he wants.
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On June 21 2012 07:14 Zombo Joe wrote:
Against Blink Stalker allins you want to evacuate your Natural and place bunkers around the blinkable cliffs. Save a scan to snipe his obs so he can't blink into your main whenever he wants.
Oh ye, i had forgotten about the possibility to lift the natural. Thank you. I guess that's good against the other 2 allins, too?
What about the other things though? Tech lab timings, how many bunkers, scv cutting etc. etc..
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On June 21 2012 07:10 FaKeSC2 wrote:Hey! Can someone tell me what the proper response to a blink stalker allin is? Especially if you don't know whether it's blink stalker or dark templars or proxy voidray? How many bunkers do i need to build, where to build them, how many tech labs and when, cancel stim and get concussive, add more rax, pull scvs if he blinks up and how many scvs, cut scv production and for how long? I usually know that's one of these 3 allins because he has 2 gas and no expansion at 5:30. But i still almost always lose against the blinkstalker allin. Mid-masters EU if that is important. Thanks in advance!
You can't prepare for all three all-ins the same way. The other thing you have to scout for is chrono energy. If you see very early double gas and low chrono, it's most likely a DT rush. With double gas and high chrono, it's usually void ray or blink stalker. The blink all-in you deal with by making 2 bunkers at your front and 1 in your main and trying to get marauders and stim ASAP. Most likely though he will be able to snipe techlabs so make the techlabbed rax in between your natural and main. I don't think it's necessary to lift your nat because you can usually hold both fronts with good awareness (send scvs out in front to see if he is gonna hit the front). A cute solution which sometimes I do is make a sensor tower but it's pretty situational to do so.
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On June 21 2012 08:07 Vanchen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 07:10 FaKeSC2 wrote:Hey! Can someone tell me what the proper response to a blink stalker allin is? Especially if you don't know whether it's blink stalker or dark templars or proxy voidray? How many bunkers do i need to build, where to build them, how many tech labs and when, cancel stim and get concussive, add more rax, pull scvs if he blinks up and how many scvs, cut scv production and for how long? I usually know that's one of these 3 allins because he has 2 gas and no expansion at 5:30. But i still almost always lose against the blinkstalker allin. Mid-masters EU if that is important. Thanks in advance! You can't prepare for all three all-ins the same way. The other thing you have to scout for is chrono energy. If you see very early double gas and low chrono, it's most likely a DT rush. With double gas and high chrono, it's usually void ray or blink stalker. The blink all-in you deal with by making 2 bunkers at your front and 1 in your main and trying to get marauders and stim ASAP. Most likely though he will be able to snipe techlabs so make the techlabbed rax in between your natural and main. I don't think it's necessary to lift your nat because you can usually hold both fronts with good awareness (send scvs out in front to see if he is gonna hit the front). A cute solution which sometimes I do is make a sensor tower but it's pretty situational to do so.
Hmm, I just checked the last replay and he had very low chrono for the whole scv scouting period. In my experience chronoboost is rarely a good indicator. Only 1 gas + 75-100 chronoboost kinda indicates a 4gate but 4gate is kinda rare anyway.
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I am low masters and blink stalkers seems to be unbeatable unless you spam marauders. I have trouble sometimes, although I usually am pretty on point as far as doing what i have to to prevent losing to them. What would the perfect response be. Here is a replay where I scanned and saw he was doing it, and responded accoordingly by building missle turrets on the only ledges he could blink up and bunkers. He knocked down my front with mass tier 1 unit and the game proceeded to end. Tips?
http://drop.sc/201207
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United States4883 Posts
On June 21 2012 02:23 Enemyy wrote:Hi! I have two questions for you : 1) What are some TvP builds which are agressive but played out of 1rax expand? Like my bio tvz guide i want to be more agressive in tvp also and trading army etc. but not sitting at home till around 10:00 to wait for my medivacs or even longer if i go for the bomber style of play. Also i do not like the 2rax cause it is not really viable on some maps with 4 spawns and i have to do dmg early. I want to fall back onto an expansion
My favourite build against protoss currently is the 5rax! After you 1rax FE, you build 4 more rax and just pump out mass marine/SCVs for a nice attack at 7:00ish. The best part is that it can blindly hold a 4-gate and even a delayed a 4-gate with sentries, making early toss pressure almost nonexistent. The push at 7:00 should have somewhere around 24 marines with more constantly rallied to the front. When you attack, build a 3rd CC off of the money you have pooled up and add all 4 gases simultaneously. From this you can keep up constant marine pressure while getting stim/combat shield/medivacs/+1,+1/add-ons.
Someone said something about combat shields...you can't get early combat shields with a 5rax, but you can with a 4rax if you want to try that...bit more of an intricate timing though.
Granted your attack was successful in a) forcing a lot of sentries out of the protoss or b) trading a lot of stalkers/sentries/zealots/even probes for marines, you should catch right up in tech and have an attack prepared at 12:00 with MMM, stim+combat, and +1,+1. You can expand to your third during this attack. At this point you'll have 3 saturated bases with 5 rax and ghost/viking production ready against MAYBE a colossus or two without range or a small handful of templar with storm.
The only downsides are a) that you have to cut marine production to build 4rax after FE, so a bunch of chrono'd units CAN kill you if you're not careful and/or don't have bunker up and b) warp prism play DIRECTLY counters the pure marine attack, you need to deny as much scouting as possible. Also, c) if you don't do any damage with the pure marine attack, you will actually just straight up lose to a 10:00 colossus timing.
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On June 21 2012 02:23 Enemyy wrote:Hi! I have two questions for you : 1) What are some TvP builds which are agressive but played out of 1rax expand? Like my bio tvz guide i want to be more agressive in tvp also and trading army etc. but not sitting at home till around 10:00 to wait for my medivacs or even longer if i go for the bomber style of play. Also i do not like the 2rax cause it is not really viable on some maps with 4 spawns and i have to do dmg early. I want to fall back onto an expansion 2) Is there a list somewhere about Possible allin-Timings around all matchups and especially tvz also how to ideally scout them etc. does that exist? Thank you very much for your help guys, really appreciate it!
I do gasless FE into 3 gas 2 port cloak harass as I build up a marine marauder tank banshee army. Pending scouting, you can drop a raven and vikings for stalker/collsai, get stim and CS and push out with scvs for a 2 base timing attack.
Couple recent replays from my 10 games this season.
http://drop.sc/201250 vs vGEroSennin 1500 last season protoss --- 700 pt last season 1 gate FE into robo play (ob sees 2 port, he drops sgate for phoenix and collsai)
http://drop.sc/201251 vs 20-6 no games last season protoss --- warp prism DT drop
http://drop.sc/201252 vs vVvReseT 1320 protoss last season -- 700pt this season -- 1 gate FE into fast HT
It's definitely a weird push, but you drop a 3rd CC as you push out, and 2 more rax, and 2 ebay to transition into an odd, but workable, standard play. The push hits hard...very hard. Most times, you can contain them and get what units you need to win.
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On June 20 2012 23:44 dynwar7 wrote:
So...the most common way to play TvT is marine/tank/medivac right?
I find TvT so frustrating. If i go marine tank medivac, what if my enemy goes mech? Mech > marine tank medi and MMM right?
I would love to play mech too, but the thought of it being so immobile and having to play 30+ min long games each time I have a TvT kinda makes me not want to go mech.. If mech games are maybe, around 20 mins, I would definitely use it.
So with marine tank medivac vs mech, i just need to do damage to them before their tank count is high? Around what minute is a meching player's tank count normally untouchable?
Sigh.. tvt is so hard for me right now. should i go marine tank medivac, that is eaten by mech? Or MMM that is also eaten by mech? Or Iam forced to go mech and play 30+ min long games...
BTW I heard that MKP loves going bio in tvt, does anyone have some replays of him other than from MLG? Because I Already have his replays from MLG. Maybe replays of him using bio vs marine tank/ mech terrans
Thanks for reading fellow terrans!
Could someone help with this? I think going MMM is not good when my enemy is marine tank medi...
WoW TvT is so confusing for me right now... -.-
I think I have decided to use marine tank medivac, in the hope of finishing games considerably quickly, like around 15-20 mins. If I cant finish it vs mech, then I need to transition to air?
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I was playing on ladder today and I came to the realization that it may not be worth playing macro games against Zerg anymore. After checking my suspicions against sc2 gears, I found that I had lost every single macro game and won with some all-in or semi all-in play. So if anyone else is struggling with TvZ, may I recommend 11/11 rax or reaper FE into bio all-in, they allowed me to have some nice wins over RootCatz and vVvtoxic. If any has some other all-in replays to add, I would be happy to see them. Also, PM me if you want the replay if you need help to see these builds in action
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My TvZ is in shambles. I drew 5 in a row today and lost to all 5 of them and it was hardly ever a close fight. They basically had 3 bases and 70 drones by 9 minutes with 4- 6 queens spreading creep. I occasionally too out an expo but they'd just roll banes into my and take out most of my force.
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Against a Zerg who fearlessly goes heavy muta ling bane against mech and splits large numbers of Mutas well, do I have to add mm or is it possible to win just waiting and massing more Thors?
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On June 21 2012 10:50 dynwar7 wrote:
So...the most common way to play TvT is marine/tank/medivac right?
I find TvT so frustrating. If i go marine tank medivac, what if my enemy goes mech? Mech > marine tank medi and MMM right?
I would love to play mech too, but the thought of it being so immobile and having to play 30+ min long games each time I have a TvT kinda makes me not want to go mech.. If mech games are maybe, around 20 mins, I would definitely use it.
So with marine tank medivac vs mech, i just need to do damage to them before their tank count is high? Around what minute is a meching player's tank count normally untouchable?
Sigh.. tvt is so hard for me right now. should i go marine tank medivac, that is eaten by mech? Or MMM that is also eaten by mech? Or Iam forced to go mech and play 30+ min long games...
BTW I heard that MKP loves going bio in tvt, does anyone have some replays of him other than from MLG? Because I Already have his replays from MLG. Maybe replays of him using bio vs marine tank/ mech terrans
Thanks for reading fellow terrans!
High master here: I go mech every game and 70% of my games end between 15:00 and 20:00. There is this big myth around mech that you have to turtle. I don't agree with this. In my opinion mech is about huge agression with hellion tank viking. You decide when you end the game. Around 14:00 you can have 160-180 supply, and you can end the game right there.
Mech vs mech is the easiest for me to end before the 20 minute mark. Mech vs pure bio too. Mech vs bio mech is harder, because you need a bigger food count to fight that.
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On June 21 2012 15:57 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 10:50 dynwar7 wrote:
So...the most common way to play TvT is marine/tank/medivac right?
I find TvT so frustrating. If i go marine tank medivac, what if my enemy goes mech? Mech > marine tank medi and MMM right?
I would love to play mech too, but the thought of it being so immobile and having to play 30+ min long games each time I have a TvT kinda makes me not want to go mech.. If mech games are maybe, around 20 mins, I would definitely use it.
So with marine tank medivac vs mech, i just need to do damage to them before their tank count is high? Around what minute is a meching player's tank count normally untouchable?
Sigh.. tvt is so hard for me right now. should i go marine tank medivac, that is eaten by mech? Or MMM that is also eaten by mech? Or Iam forced to go mech and play 30+ min long games...
BTW I heard that MKP loves going bio in tvt, does anyone have some replays of him other than from MLG? Because I Already have his replays from MLG. Maybe replays of him using bio vs marine tank/ mech terrans
Thanks for reading fellow terrans! High master here: I go mech every game and 70% of my games end between 15:00 and 20:00. There is this big myth around mech that you have to turtle. I don't agree with this. In my opinion mech is about huge agression with hellion tank viking. You decide when you end the game. Around 14:00 you can have 160-180 supply, and you can end the game right there. Mech vs mech is the easiest for me to end before the 20 minute mark. Mech vs pure bio too. Mech vs bio mech is harder, because you need a bigger food count to fight that.
Thanks you.
I am just wondering when the best time to transition to sky is, because that is what I like, I think (lol).
I like going marine tank because using that you can end the game reasonably quickly, when compared to mech.Just need to know when to transition to air?
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