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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I know you have to click unload on the medivac as it moves, but when i have many medivacs (7+) and I want to doom drop them over siege tanks, i find that i often miss 1 or 2.....they are still full, therefore. So, do I have to simply spread them out before engaging, and as i click-move them, i unload and I ahve to manually click on each medivac? You need to be accurate to do this, huh..? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On June 20 2012 12:22 dynwar7 wrote: What is the secret to doing medivac move-drop correctly? I know you have to click unload on the medivac as it moves, but when i have many medivacs (7+) and I want to doom drop them over siege tanks, i find that i often miss 1 or 2.....they are still full, therefore. So, do I have to simply spread them out before engaging, and as i click-move them, i unload and I ahve to manually click on each medivac? You need to be accurate to do this, huh..? Yeah, assuming you don't have time to queue up the order beforehand using Shift, you'll need to be accurate and quick to execute this micro trick. | ||
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sathin
United States46 Posts
Also if anyone knows of some good pro names that also focus on bio play themeslves i could use that as well as i could check out some of their gameplay i was thinking of trying to focus my viewing around MKP, Polt, Illusion, and Demuslim kind of im not sure about demuslim as i think he uses more mech sometimes but im not totally against mech i just want to be able to perfect bio heavy | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 20 2012 05:02 zende wrote: so hi guys, i just got back after a break and after a few games i noticed the new patch which buffed queen range makes my TvZ builds pretty useless. i'm a masters terran and i used to go for the standard reactor hellion openings to contain and to deny spread but i feel that doing that is really hard right now. i've been reading up how to change my game and i heard a lot of pros use the fast 3cc build which i thought sounded interesting. now i'm wondering, before i go into ladder and lose all my points because i have no clue of how this build works - how do you do it? does anyone of you have a build order for it? that would be amazing. how do you transition out of it? i feel like if i play too passive i'll let the zerg get hive tech too easily which i don't want to give them for free. also, do you have any other builds except the fast 3cc in TvZ? thanks alot guys! The fast 3CC build is really simple: do a standard 1rax expand and just build a 3rd CC before adding extra barracks or gas and doing what you would have done normally. Same thing works in TvP versus a nexus first build BTW. I understand how you feel about TvZ changing...I played a really old style of doing timing pushes and hoping the zerg wouldn't have stuff for a long time. The conclusion I've come to is that the standard 4 hellions are no longer useful for controlling space unless you have some sort of 2-base all-in incoming at around the 10:00 mark. Instead, terran players are using much more early aggressive builds that don't involve tanks; they involve getting a huge number of hellions or a huge number of marines up early. New builds out are centered around mass reactor hellion/marauder or mass reactor hellion/banshee. Instead of switching that factory out and getting tanks faster, terrans are starting to play towards getting A LOT of hellions early and adding in stuff that kills roaches (marauder/banshee). The nice thing also is that both openings provide a groundwork for both mech and bio depending on how you want to play. The other facet is skipping hellions altogether and going for a more bio focused play. Ever since MKP started using the mass marine/medivac crazy ball-to-the-wall aggression style, players have been opening with a lot of early MMM aggression in the early- and mid-game. Only when they start to get to the late game do they add on stuff like Thors and ghosts. Hope that helps! | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Regarding defending 3rd....it is still very debatable whether to go PF or OC right? My question is, is it better to go bunker + 4 marines walled by supply depots from OC to gas (So you need 3 or 4 depots to cover the bunker), or just simply go PF? Going PF sounds better even though it is quite expensive, but it has splash damage, whereas bunkers dont have splash and also 4 marines deal quite good DPS and that is taken from your main army. What do you suggest? EDIT: On June 20 2012 15:36 sathin wrote: I've been race switching frrom zerg to terran recently for no other reason then i want more fun with this game and i feel terran appeals more to how i enjoy playing this game i espcially like being able to mass bio whenever i can its my preferred stly by far im coming from being a diamond zerg and i placed my friends account in platinum after i studied some general terran VoDs however i cant seem now to find any of the most up to date builds and styles and was wondering where i could get some or if anyone could show me some or what have you Also if anyone knows of some good pro names that also focus on bio play themeslves i could use that as well as i could check out some of their gameplay i was thinking of trying to focus my viewing around MKP, Polt, Illusion, and Demuslim kind of im not sure about demuslim as i think he uses more mech sometimes but im not totally against mech i just want to be able to perfect bio heavy I think in TvT you can go Thorzains build. In TvP, I go Bombers build, and TvZ, i love going bio only but you truly need nice splits/micro macro(there is a nice guide here) and i have been winning so many vs zergs. But be careful - one second you look at your base while your army is out there, when you look back there is a good chance you will see only banelings  (if you know what i mean..) | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 20 2012 15:36 sathin wrote: I've been race switching frrom zerg to terran recently for no other reason then i want more fun with this game and i feel terran appeals more to how i enjoy playing this game i espcially like being able to mass bio whenever i can its my preferred stly by far im coming from being a diamond zerg and i placed my friends account in platinum after i studied some general terran VoDs however i cant seem now to find any of the most up to date builds and styles and was wondering where i could get some or if anyone could show me some or what have you Also if anyone knows of some good pro names that also focus on bio play themeslves i could use that as well as i could check out some of their gameplay i was thinking of trying to focus my viewing around MKP, Polt, Illusion, and Demuslim kind of im not sure about demuslim as i think he uses more mech sometimes but im not totally against mech i just want to be able to perfect bio heavy The most up-to-date builds currently are all based around fast expands. It would do you good to get familiar with the standard FEs: 1rax expand and CC first. TvZ builds: 1) Reactor hellion/banshee - 2gas after expo into mass hellion/banshee to control space and get a fast 3rd. You can follow this up with either mech or bio, so it's a pretty flexible and strong build. 2) Reactor hellion/marauder - 2gas after expo into mass hellion/marauder to push really aggressively. You're likely to deny the 3rd if you hide your tech well, and you can follow it up with either mech or bio. 3) Mass bio - 3-4 rax after expo into mass marine production (add on combat shields if you want), push really aggressively while teching up to medivacs and +1,+1. Works fairly well against everything except really early banelings, so make sure you scout well. TvP builds: 1) Standard 3rax - 3rax after expo, teching to combat shields/stim/+1/medivac timing at 10:00. From there you can take a 3rd and add rax 4 and 5. Relies more on marauders if you see fast colossus. The Bomber variation is going 1gas instead of 2gas for a faster 4th and 5th barracks. 2) Mass rax - 4-5 rax after expo, early attack with pure marines. Behind this pressure you can get up all the tech you need and secure another attack timing at around 12:00 with combat shields/stim/+1,+1/medivacs. Basically the more rax you start with, the more aggressive of a variant you're playing. 3) The "2-2-2" - expand into a 1-1-1 type setup with marines/tanks/banshees. I believe it's 2rax/1fact/1sp. Generally kind of a more powerful 1-1-1 all-in. TvT builds: (disclaimer, this ranges far and wide...TvT has a staggering amount of openings) 1) Mass marine FE - 3-5 rax after expanding for a lot of early marines. As with TvP, the more starting barracks, the more aggression, later 3rd. Thorzain has a really awesome variant on this that gets a ton of marine/tank out with fast combat shield/stim/+1. 2) The "2-2-2" - the 1-1-1 after expand. Unlike TvP, easier to transition back into a normal game. It will also hold off a lot of 1-base all-ins. 3) 1-base hellion drop - Seeing this quite a bit lately, it's an early drop with 3hellions and a handful of marines that will kill a turtly, teching player fairly easily. 4) 1-base reaper all-in - Kind of a 1-1-1 variation using 3-4 speed reapers, 3 hellions, and a medivac for an early attack timing that will crush a marine centered builds or greedy play. For bio, MKP is like the winner of all lol. Other players that do bio a lot are Bomber, Polt, and MMA. Hope this helps you out! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:40 dynwar7 wrote: Thanks Blazing Regarding defending 3rd....it is still very debatable whether to go PF or OC right? My question is, is it better to go bunker + 4 marines walled by supply depots from OC to gas (So you need 3 or 4 depots to cover the bunker), or just simply go PF? Going PF sounds better even though it is quite expensive, but it has splash damage, whereas bunkers dont have splash and also 4 marines deal quite good DPS and that is taken from your main army. What do you suggest? OC's are infinitely better than PFs; you always want to have as many as you can safely get. That being said, the general rule is that the first 3 bases should be OC's unless the distance between the natural and 3rd is too great to defend or that the 3rd is too exposed. I pretty much always go OCs in every matchup for the first 3 bases except on maybe Daybreak or Condemned Ridge. One map that stands out to me as NEEDING a PF is Atlantis Spaceship, but that's not in the ladder map pool. Bunker and 4 marines is a definite plus, but not always necessary. After the 3rd base, generally PF's are better, but it depends on the matchup. In TvZ and TvP I would almost universally suggest planetaries on every base after your 3rd because it's just too hard to be everywhere at once with terran. In TvT, ALWAYS go mass orbitals against mech, ALWAYS go mass PFs against bio. After 4th and 5th bases, you can always add on macro orbitals of course  . | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
Sounds like to me you'll have a tank out in time with the bunker buying some time, but since you only have 1 rax how do you deal with the medivac full of marines? | ||
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Jaxtyk
United States600 Posts
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_Book
United States51 Posts
What I really want to ask, is how people feel about transitioning out of it. Ive been doing this on ladder recently, and while im a shit plat and maybe it only works against idiotic plat and diamond zergs i play against. I started doing a pure bio style, with a transition into mech with the gas i have pooled from bio not being gas heavy. I generally try and keep creep spread low, and if i have a way to snipe the third and kill some drones i will. Why i say this is obviously bio will have a gas bank, and you already need a factory and armory for upgrades and starport respectively. It seems smart to use that gas, so why dont we? We can use the factory we have for hellions, the armory for +1, add another factory for blue flame. And because we are playing pure bio for a bit we are expanding like crazy as we should so the gas income would already be great. It seems we were stuck on marine tank for so long, that we cant find other things to do, when we do have options in the mid game to go from bio onto the mech/sky terran deathball. Maybe the queen range isnt our problem, maybe its our inability to try and see new things that may have potential are. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 20 2012 18:53 _Book wrote: What does everyone think of pure bio? IMO it has great flexibility. Mobile, powerful, and it combined with a lot of medivacs can deal with infestors pretty well. What I really want to ask, is how people feel about transitioning out of it. Ive been doing this on ladder recently, and while im a shit plat and maybe it only works against idiotic plat and diamond zergs i play against. I started doing a pure bio style, with a transition into mech with the gas i have pooled from bio not being gas heavy. I generally try and keep creep spread low, and if i have a way to snipe the third and kill some drones i will. Why i say this is obviously bio will have a gas bank, and you already need a factory and armory for upgrades and starport respectively. It seems smart to use that gas, so why dont we? We can use the factory we have for hellions, the armory for +1, add another factory for blue flame. And because we are playing pure bio for a bit we are expanding like crazy as we should so the gas income would already be great. It seems we were stuck on marine tank for so long, that we cant find other things to do, when we do have options in the mid game to go from bio onto the mech/sky terran deathball. Maybe the queen range isnt our problem, maybe its our inability to try and see new things that may have potential are. I understand where you're coming from, but the key thing about switching into hard mech from bio is: what about all those resources we pooled into making rax and add-ons? If the game goes into late late game and resources become scarce, we're going to wish we had those resources back for our heavy mech mix. The other difficulty we face is that when we start adding mech units to a pure bio mix, we start back over in upgrades. Again, this is a time when we wish we could have back those resources we spent on bio upgrades to pay for mech upgrades. I honestly think the best solution to this is the biomech with MMM + thor/viking. In addition, late game BC's are a good transition as a sort of gigantic point defense drone...that can yamato. Ravens with Hunter Seeker Missile are also becoming popular. Polt does this a lot, transitioning to marauders/tank/thors/vikings to deal with the infestor/broodlord mix. In addition, when it gets to this very late endgame stages, you'll still have the flexibility to switch back to a lean mixture of marines and medivacs versus like zergling/infestor. | ||
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_Book
United States51 Posts
On June 20 2012 19:05 SC2John wrote: I understand where you're coming from, but the key thing about switching into hard mech from bio is: what about all those resources we pooled into making rax and add-ons? If the game goes into late late game and resources become scarce, we're going to wish we had those resources back for our heavy mech mix. The other difficulty we face is that when we start adding mech units to a pure bio mix, we start back over in upgrades. Again, this is a time when we wish we could have back those resources we spent on bio upgrades to pay for mech upgrades. I honestly think the best solution to this is the biomech with MMM + thor/viking. In addition, late game BC's are a good transition as a sort of gigantic point defense drone...that can yamato. Ravens with Hunter Seeker Missile are also becoming popular. Polt does this a lot, transitioning to marauders/tank/thors/vikings to deal with the infestor/broodlord mix. In addition, when it gets to this very late endgame stages, you'll still have the flexibility to switch back to a lean mixture of marines and medivacs versus like zergling/infestor. You're right, but the infrastructure and upgrades for the bio is still there if it ever does get that late into the game. Maybe im still stuck in BW thinking this could work, but maybe not. The upgrades for zerg vs bio is different than from zerg going against mech. The BFH transition before you fully transition into mech could do some serious damage against the common ling infestor mid game style. It could and is a nice way to snipe a third, deny a fourth and do some damage against the zergs natural if we can do that. As for your add ons, well were terran. We will fly buildings over lol. We dont need alot of rax for this. I am personally doing 3 so i can get a third faster which means quick 6 gases mining to go into the mech. It makes the bio part of the game in the early to early-mid game before the infestor tech is there and while the zerg is still droning the third. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
As for the add-ons, I suppose if it's only a few, that's not problematic. The only thing for me is that I personally hate switching add-ons and do it as little as possible. It just takes so long for the buildings to lift off and move, and I feel like I'm wasting so much macro time. As for transitioning into BFH, I'm not sure how that harassment would go any better than your mobile MMM force with drops, except I suppose it still kills drones even after they're pulled. It's an interesting idea though. Generally we see terrans adding on thors at this point to deal with straight up engagements with ultras/Blords, but perhaps that can be delayed through more economic harassment. | ||
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HaEzE
Sweden5 Posts
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:56 HaEzE wrote: Just a question in TvT, in silver atm and the standard unit compostion are Marine,tanks,medivac and vikings. Is there any other unit compostion that could work? Cause otherwise I just find TvT extremly hard because it's all about position ( atleast in silver ) marauder marine medivac marine tank medivac hellion thor tank (viking) | ||
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HaEzE
Sweden5 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:59 zezamer wrote: marauder marine medivac marine tank medivac hellion thor tank (viking) Okay so are Helion thor Tank any effective? Because I don't want always do the normal freaking marine tank medivac | ||
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LSF
469 Posts
opponent sieges up in this position at the edge of my 3rd: ![[image loading]](http://s7.directupload.net/images/120620/ery82h2g.jpg) What's the best way to get rid of those tanks? In this game I chose to go around and attack from the bottom, since i had vision from medivacs and managed to barely clear it. However I've had other times where this led to gg quickly. Going head-on through the choke is probably not a good idea... try to drop in from the back of the 3rd? | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 20 2012 17:32 EngrishTeacher wrote: Starshaped, can you upload a replay of you holding against a competent tank push while going 1 rax fe? Sounds like to me you'll have a tank out in time with the bunker buying some time, but since you only have 1 rax how do you deal with the medivac full of marines? I actually recently switched computers, and of the ~80 or so games I've played so far very few have been TvT (which is a shame because it's my favourite matchup) and only one has involved me going FE against a 1base all-in, and it isn't even a tankpush. I'll post the replay anyway because it shows a fairly unique all-in that I've since copied myself and had a lot of success with, lol. Also it shows a pretty hilarious comeback (I'm literally down to 0 SCVs at one point). http://replayfu.com/r/n4pG7k Note: This is one of the first times I tried 15CC in TvT for a long time so I kind of completely mess up the build. The all-in is cloakshee while getting reactor on fac/rac and going for a huge amount of marine/hellion and pulling SCVs. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I find TvT so frustrating. If i go marine tank medivac, what if my enemy goes mech? Mech > marine tank medi and MMM right? I would love to play mech too, but the thought of it being so immobile and having to play 30+ min long games each time I have a TvT kinda makes me not want to go mech.. If mech games are maybe, around 20 mins, I would definitely use it. So with marine tank medivac vs mech, i just need to do damage to them before their tank count is high? Around what minute is a meching player's tank count normally untouchable? Sigh.. tvt is so hard for me right now. should i go marine tank medivac, that is eaten by mech? Or MMM that is also eaten by mech? Or Iam forced to go mech and play 30+ min long games... BTW I heard that MKP loves going bio in tvt, does anyone have some replays of him other than from MLG? Because I Already have his replays from MLG. Maybe replays of him using bio vs marine tank/ mech terrans Thanks for reading fellow terrans! | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 20 2012 12:22 dynwar7 wrote: What is the secret to doing medivac move-drop correctly? I know you have to click unload on the medivac as it moves, but when i have many medivacs (7+) and I want to doom drop them over siege tanks, i find that i often miss 1 or 2.....they are still full, therefore. So, do I have to simply spread them out before engaging, and as i click-move them, i unload and I ahve to manually click on each medivac? You need to be accurate to do this, huh..? You could just select a dropping point for all of the medivacs and then as they reach that point, click on as many as you can to unload. That way, at least, you won't have any medivacs that aren't unloaded. | ||
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