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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On May 23 2012 21:29 BlindKill wrote:
Is Mech viable in TvP? Anyone here ( or anyone famous like Goody ) that can perform mech strat TvP better than the standard bio strat at the moment ? I normally open 1 rax FE , secure 3 gas get 2 fact, armory up, 4th gas 3rd fact and just build hellion/tank from it.... but even when ideally positioned I still get rolled by a 1a toss. So I added ghosts this time and still I got rolled. Is it just a bad strategy or am I missing something here?
There are some users here that use Mech, specifically http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003
It's not really explored as well as Bio and I don't really think you can consistently use it. Some pros throw it in but I don't think it's as safe/secure as Bio ATM
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On May 23 2012 21:29 BlindKill wrote:
Is Mech viable in TvP? Anyone here ( or anyone famous like Goody ) that can perform mech strat TvP better than the standard bio strat at the moment ? I normally open 1 rax FE , secure 3 gas get 2 fact, armory up, 4th gas 3rd fact and just build hellion/tank from it.... but even when ideally positioned I still get rolled by a 1a toss. So I added ghosts this time and still I got rolled. Is it just a bad strategy or am I missing something here?
Search for Last Shadow's replay packs on TL. He's released a fair number of mech TvP replays.
Edit: Here's the link http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332660
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So this is very simple. I just fail at recognizing any Xgate pressure or fast tech after the expansion for protoss goes down.
What do I do now is I scan at 8 00 for his gases on natural exp. However I ve just played a game, where the toss didnt take those gases and went for fast charge. My response to this was throwing down 2 more bunkers as I was expecting 6gate.
I dont rly wanna waste too much energy for scans and too much minerals for bunkers to be safe, because playing safe puts you behind in the game.
How do you scout protoss after he lands the expo? Do you just blindly add second bunker to be safe from any possible Xgate pressure?
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On May 24 2012 03:02 onlyjuice wrote:
So this is very simple. I just fail at recognizing any Xgate pressure or fast tech after the expansion for protoss goes down.
What do I do now is I scan at 8 00 for his gases on natural exp. However I ve just played a game, where the toss didnt take those gases and went for fast charge. My response to this was throwing down 2 more bunkers as I was expecting 6gate.
I dont rly wanna waste too much energy for scans and too much minerals for bunkers to be safe, because playing safe puts you behind in the game.
How do you scout protoss after he lands the expo? Do you just blindly add second bunker to be safe from any possible Xgate pressure?
If I can't sufficiently determine what the Protoss is doing by 8 minutes, a 2nd or 3rd bunker is almost mandatory. You can always salvage them if you push out and see that he isn't going for heavy aggression.
EDIT: Also, keep scanning until you can determine what he's up to. A drop can also function as a great scout.
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On May 24 2012 03:02 onlyjuice wrote:
So this is very simple. I just fail at recognizing any Xgate pressure or fast tech after the expansion for protoss goes down.
What do I do now is I scan at 8 00 for his gases on natural exp. However I ve just played a game, where the toss didnt take those gases and went for fast charge. My response to this was throwing down 2 more bunkers as I was expecting 6gate.
I dont rly wanna waste too much energy for scans and too much minerals for bunkers to be safe, because playing safe puts you behind in the game.
How do you scout protoss after he lands the expo? Do you just blindly add second bunker to be safe from any possible Xgate pressure?
I always add a second bunker at around like 6:40-6:50 I think, and I generally scout around with marines/scvs
I tend to blow one scan before the 10 minute mark and then another one at around like 11:30~12:00. generally though, i will always have 2 bunkers.
however, lately I've been doing a 1rax expo into 5 rax total build, and pressuring with marines/bio and what not. it really helps to see what kind of tech path they're going while doing a lot of damage, and possibly killing if they're too greedy
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On May 23 2012 14:30 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 18:45 iAmJeffReY wrote:On May 22 2012 18:07 _Book wrote:
What do you guys do in TvZ now?
Ever since the patch change i find every opening useless. Reactor hellion? Doesn't matter, creep still spreads so much because of the queen range, giving them space to take a third.
Reapers? Queens out range them.
1 rax expand? They take a quick 4th and tech to infestors and rush hive.
The only opening i do that has any success rate is the proxy 11/11 rax for a quick win.
That is the opening i feel...safe doing. Everything else seems to be pointless to try because creep will still spread insanely quick, and a 3rd will be taken quicker because of the queen range buff. I am at a complete and utter loss.
TvZ was my best match up before this buff, and now anytime i see a zerg i have to decide between losing because i cant deny creep or a 3rd anymore, or cheesing to get a win.
And yes, i have tried cloaked banshees. But any zerg with a brain will get atleast one spore by the time they show up making them utterly useless because they will just move drones.
I am at a loss. Contemplating switching races because the grass seems so much greener on the other side. They get buffs, we get our early-midgame advantage shut down. This is the biggest rage filled post I have seen. And sadly, about everything you said is purely wrong. Search through this thread, find the build order I posted for the demuslim style TvZ 1 rax FE with a marine/hellion stim/cs/+1 push. I'll even repost replays for you, my unhappy friend. http://drop.sc/176261 vs 970 masters Z http://drop.sc/176262 vs 760 masters Z http://drop.sc/176263 vs 1300 masters Z http://drop.sc/181272 vs 950 masters Z http://drop.sc/181273 vs 1100 masters Z (Zelia, the rager streaming zerg, so funny his after game rage) http://drop.sc/181537 vs 1220 masters Z There ya go. There are a ton of examples of an early game attack working, and most times straight out winning the game against this 'fast third' style of ZvT. 10 depot 12rax 15 depot 16 gas 17 oc 21 cc 23 fac 23 reactor on rax 24 depot 25 rax 25 rax There's a basic opening BO for it. how do you manage roaches or bling busts? Actually some questions: 1) How do you handle banelings in your first attack at around 8 minutes~ at the 3rd? Are there usually no banelings at that point if they go fast 3rd or what? 2) What do you do if they don't take a 3rd? (or late normal) Turtle up and go normal?
If they have banelings, they don't have roaches, or enough zerglings to deal with stim/cs/+1 mara marine hellion. Pull back marines, split, marauders stay put, hellions try and line up shots and just spread them late too.
And, the risk of creep spread is about non existent, as you can almost always get that queen at the third before units arrive.
If they don't third, I assume either 10 minute infestor, or 9-10 minute muta. Scan natural, keep hellions outside and just poke and prod and gauge his zergling response. If you can move out semi undetected, and cross the map to his base before he gets a full sight on the army, you can still push. Just spread well against the few banes, and get ready for the tech coming in the counter.
On May 23 2012 14:52 joeschmo wrote:
Roach and bling busts are tough but it can hold. That build is good vs 3 hatch zerg sometimes, if you catch them off guard with it. If they scout it it can be ran over easily even with good micro.
I hold econ busts very easily at least 80% of the time, just the fluke times I don't see it coming by no third, early speed, and ling count etc.
Zerg doesn't beat the push with good micro, they beat it with just sheer numbers and positioning. Even still, it's very rare that your army just flops and they are left with a giant force to counter with. In my mind, it's timed so that around 10 min when zergs are approx wanting to go on the muta ball, or infestor count up is a perfect time to push. If they made those units, they cannot hold this push at 10 min without sick ass fungals. They will lose the 3rd and/or natural. The best way to hold is has been successfully getting the third, roach to roach ling bane to a muta switch briefly to force turrets, then go into infestor/ling/BL or infestor/ling/ultra. Just the constant switches, and being on 6 gas early lets them upgrade ling and muta, or get to an exceptionally fast hive which spells nastyness for us.
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Hello...
To some of you this might sound pretty weired, i m diamond terran and i m having tourbles vs zerg who... simply - not going fast hatch. Dont get me wrong, i m not saying that i m losing to 1 base zerg - the natural respond is obviously a bunker or 2 vs bane bust / 7rr. but the thing is - all my builds vs zergs are around 1 rax fe into double gas, but when zerg does that 2 me, and not commiting i m just not getting the edge i should have "by the book"
Yeah i keep making SCVs but i have no idea bout a solid build transition i should do, because i m really kinda contained on 1 base and cant get my economy running as i used 2.
Yeah the zerg does make a 7rr for example and then i m ahead in workers on him for some period of tme (i did 1 rax FE inside base) but i just get contained for couple of minutes and therefore not really enjoying my lead of workers that much.. as the zerg just start taking his 3rd and droning like crazy knowing hes safe for alot of minutes.
Bottom line - The game goes kinda to an even point on best case secnario for me, but i m left with no timing attack and nothing.
Would like to know whats the most solid response of me should be. what kind of build is the best in such scenario, and should i attack him asap, or try go for a macro game.
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United States2 Posts
Hey guys,
I've been getting back to SC2 recently after a very long break from it, and I've noticed that I have a very hard time dealing with drops in TvT. I usually build up a larger force than the opposing Terran, but the drops just throw me off balance. What do you guys recommend for dealing with this? I've also noticed that when I'm pushing towards the opponents base, I tend to rally the units being produce towards the middle of the map. Should I just leave some units at home to defend against potential drops? Or build turrets?
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Turrets are fine. Evenly spaced turrets should take out 1-2 dropships before they can unload a significant amount of marines. Or just get a sensor tower and that will usually discourage drops or doom drops.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On May 24 2012 16:30 jabberjaw wrote:
Turrets are fine. Evenly spaced turrets should take out 1-2 dropships before they can unload a significant amount of marines. Or just get a sensor tower and that will usually discourage drops or doom drops.
I think what jabberjaw says in his second bit here is important. Part of fending off harass, sure, is static defenses and armies at home. But a lot of fending off harass is seeing it coming. If you're out on the map, try to have a well-placed sensor tower, or depots at the edges of your base, so you can have a small force at home to fight drops. Controlling towers and knowing where his main army is (and if it's suddenly missing, to see a doom drop coming) is important.
Typically a sensor tower in TvT makes all the difference, coupled with xel'naga tower control.
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Can anyone link me to some vods of a 2 base Marine/Tank push?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On May 24 2012 19:56 huehuehuehue wrote:
Can anyone link me to some vods of a 2 base Marine/Tank push?
Which MU? In TvP, I think Warden's 1-1-1 expo and Yen's 7-2-2 allin are both examples of 2 base marine/tank style pushes, but I can't think of something off-hand for the other MUs.
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On May 24 2012 20:08 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 19:56 huehuehuehue wrote:
Can anyone link me to some vods of a 2 base Marine/Tank push? Which MU? In TvP, I think Warden's 1-1-1 expo and Yen's 7-2-2 allin are both examples of 2 base marine/tank style pushes, but I can't think of something off-hand for the other MUs.
Oh yeah, i meant in TvP.
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Does Anyone Know how to deal with, 1-1-1 Drewbie style? I open 1 rax fe and I've tried 3 rax after that or quick 1-1-1 after gasless expand. Sorry for bad english
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I am so done with tvp.. my mmr dropped to low diamond and im still losing. Faced a 2 base collosus allin who lost everything, played worse in every aspect and still wins for reasons unknown to me. Could anyone make my exams filled day better by helping me out with this replay:http://drop.sc/185511
My own analysis:
I open gasless fe into 3 rax starport he does 1 gate fe into super fast collosus.
I catch his army offguard and kill it in a very efficient manner. I then proceed to drop his main and take out both his robo bay and robo facillity. I do lose like 2 marauders but I take out all of his tech. He pushes me with 1 collosus and bunch of gateway units.
I think I lost because of micro but this sucks soo much because I am convinced that I outplayed this guy on every aspect. but maybe micro.
I had better macro, positioning, won the first fight, had a small upgrade advantage he had only 1 collosus. Army tab favored him but veeeeeery slightly, I still had defenders advantage of the ramp on Shakuras and all those other things.
I feel so angry about TvP in general I wish there was a way to get out of this mindset that I've been strugling with for months. Sorry for this badly written post but this game was played like 10 minutes ago and I'm so angry.
Edit: forgot to actually add the replay
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United States2567 Posts
On May 24 2012 23:47 Bojas wrote:
I am so done with tvp.. my mmr dropped to low diamond and im still losing. Faced a 2 base collosus allin who lost everything, played worse in every aspect and still wins for reasons unknown to me. Could anyone make my exams filled day better by helping me out with this replay:http://drop.sc/185511
My own analysis:
I open gasless fe into 3 rax starport he does 1 gate fe into super fast collosus.
I catch his army offguard and kill it in a very efficient manner. I then proceed to drop his main and take out both his robo bay and robo facillity. I do lose like 2 marauders but I take out all of his tech. He pushes me with 1 collosus and bunch of gateway units.
I think I lost because of micro but this sucks soo much because I am convinced that I outplayed this guy on every aspect. but maybe micro.
I had better macro, positioning, won the first fight, had a small upgrade advantage he had only 1 collosus. Army tab favored him but veeeeeery slightly, I still had defenders advantage of the ramp on Shakuras and all those other things.
I feel so angry about TvP in general I wish there was a way to get out of this mindset that I've been strugling with for months. Sorry for this badly written post but this game was played like 10 minutes ago and I'm so angry.
Edit: forgot to actually add the replay
Keep trying man. Sorry it's so rough for the fellow Terrans these days. MKP's 1 rax FE is usually a reliable way to go. Make sure to re-hide the scouting SCV to send back in to get a sense of gas timings and whether or not they have early robo.
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Masters terran here,
what are your follow ups after a 1rax fe against a zerg? what build order do you do? and could you give me a sample BO?
Also for TvP, after a 1rax fe, what build do you guys do? i try 1rax fe into either 5rax or 3rax. Is there a nice BO that exists for without delayed tech?
Also the tvp mma tank build, anyone got a replay for that or BO?
thanks!!
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On May 25 2012 00:40 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 23:47 Bojas wrote:
I am so done with tvp.. my mmr dropped to low diamond and im still losing. Faced a 2 base collosus allin who lost everything, played worse in every aspect and still wins for reasons unknown to me. Could anyone make my exams filled day better by helping me out with this replay:http://drop.sc/185511
My own analysis:
I open gasless fe into 3 rax starport he does 1 gate fe into super fast collosus.
I catch his army offguard and kill it in a very efficient manner. I then proceed to drop his main and take out both his robo bay and robo facillity. I do lose like 2 marauders but I take out all of his tech. He pushes me with 1 collosus and bunch of gateway units.
I think I lost because of micro but this sucks soo much because I am convinced that I outplayed this guy on every aspect. but maybe micro.
I had better macro, positioning, won the first fight, had a small upgrade advantage he had only 1 collosus. Army tab favored him but veeeeeery slightly, I still had defenders advantage of the ramp on Shakuras and all those other things.
I feel so angry about TvP in general I wish there was a way to get out of this mindset that I've been strugling with for months. Sorry for this badly written post but this game was played like 10 minutes ago and I'm so angry.
Edit: forgot to actually add the replay Keep trying man. Sorry it's so rough for the fellow Terrans these days. MKP's 1 rax FE is usually a reliable way to go. Make sure to re-hide the scouting SCV to send back in to get a sense of gas timings and whether or not they have early robo.
Well I scouted everything just fine and even when he was gonna push me I managed to pick off his allining army in the midfield. It was like a super slow 6 gate with 1 collosus I have no clue how his army was stronger.
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On May 23 2012 21:29 BlindKill wrote:
Is Mech viable in TvP? Anyone here ( or anyone famous like Goody ) that can perform mech strat TvP better than the standard bio strat at the moment ? I normally open 1 rax FE , secure 3 gas get 2 fact, armory up, 4th gas 3rd fact and just build hellion/tank from it.... but even when ideally positioned I still get rolled by a 1a toss. So I added ghosts this time and still I got rolled. Is it just a bad strategy or am I missing something here?
I've done ghost mech TvP up to high diamond (masters terran, diamond random). I think mech is quite strong and I don't think you can accurately claim it's "better" because the playstyle is really different. Your build order is pretty good (except 1rax FE into mech is too risky for me).
The ghosts and at least 1 PDD are a must for mid-game before you get a critical siege tank count (purely defensive). To be honest, blue flame hellions (and banshees) are only very good midgame/earlygame to harrass and keep the protoss in their base. Target firing with all your tanks is super important, because the protoss army can get on top of your tanks pretty quick and their damage output decreases exponentially if you let them autofire on the army. Once you get a good siege tank count you can make a few thors. If they have a colossus based composition (not sure why they would) get 3-4 vikings.
Quantic Illusion also has done mech TvP - he beat FXOz with mech on daybreak at IPL4 with it
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EPT
