EPTHere's a link http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-466-p1-quanticillusion-s-aggressive-unorthodox-play-6158083
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 229
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Qwaky
Croatia20 Posts
Here's a link http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-466-p1-quanticillusion-s-aggressive-unorthodox-play-6158083 | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On May 22 2012 18:07 _Book wrote: What do you guys do in TvZ now? Ever since the patch change i find every opening useless. Reactor hellion? Doesn't matter, creep still spreads so much because of the queen range, giving them space to take a third. Reapers? Queens out range them. 1 rax expand? They take a quick 4th and tech to infestors and rush hive. The only opening i do that has any success rate is the proxy 11/11 rax for a quick win. That is the opening i feel...safe doing. Everything else seems to be pointless to try because creep will still spread insanely quick, and a 3rd will be taken quicker because of the queen range buff. I am at a complete and utter loss. TvZ was my best match up before this buff, and now anytime i see a zerg i have to decide between losing because i cant deny creep or a 3rd anymore, or cheesing to get a win. And yes, i have tried cloaked banshees. But any zerg with a brain will get atleast one spore by the time they show up making them utterly useless because they will just move drones. I am at a loss. Contemplating switching races because the grass seems so much greener on the other side. They get buffs, we get our early-midgame advantage shut down. This is the biggest rage filled post I have seen. And sadly, about everything you said is purely wrong. Search through this thread, find the build order I posted for the demuslim style TvZ 1 rax FE with a marine/hellion stim/cs/+1 push. I'll even repost replays for you, my unhappy friend. http://drop.sc/176261 vs 970 masters Z http://drop.sc/176262 vs 760 masters Z http://drop.sc/176263 vs 1300 masters Z http://drop.sc/181272 vs 950 masters Z http://drop.sc/181273 vs 1100 masters Z (Zelia, the rager streaming zerg, so funny his after game rage) http://drop.sc/181537 vs 1220 masters Z There ya go. There are a ton of examples of an early game attack working, and most times straight out winning the game against this 'fast third' style of ZvT. 10 depot 12rax 15 depot 16 gas 17 oc 21 cc 23 fac 23 reactor on rax 24 depot 25 rax 25 rax There's a basic opening BO for it. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On May 22 2012 17:45 Scila wrote: Can somebody give me BO for 2 rax cheese that MVP does in TvP? thx :D The build Mvp uses is a proxy 11/11. Typically this build only works on 2-player maps. Basically, he makes a 10 depot, then makes 1 more scv, then an 11 barracks (proxied) then another 11 barracks (proxied). You have to cut scvs to do this. The timing of when to send out your scvs to proxy is: send one scv just as you start your depot, then send another scv 20 seconds later. Depending on rush distance, when you send your first scv might be earlier or later, but always send the second scv 20 seconds later. Your first 11 rax starts at 1:35, and the second one starts at like... 2:03 ish, maybe earlier or later depending on your mineral pairing and how far your initial depot was from your mineral line. This build is highly effective against greedy builds, but is very weak if scouted and/or the adversary is going for a safe build. It is also very micro-intensive and generally difficult to execute. | ||
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MonDeW
Denmark369 Posts
Thanks on forehand! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On May 23 2012 02:26 MonDeW wrote: So, i've basicly been exclusively meching in TvT, except for 1 base pushses. Now, i've been trying to bio/mech to mix things up, and i'm having a problem against meching players. Even though i'm playing reasonably well, i'm still losing. I drop, i attack from multiple fronts, i counter attack etc. Am i supposed to do an air switch if i want to win? Thanks on forehand! Typically if you're going marine/tank against hellion/tank, you're going to have some troubles. Most people begin incorporating Marauders once they realize their opponent is going for full mech. An air switch can be good IF you have air control, since mech lacks the basic AA that marines give you, but there's always the possibility of losing air control in that case. A BC transition, properly supported, is a little more effective against mech than bio, though. Typically though using marauders instead of marines helps a lot with the multi-prong attacks, dropping, etc. If you are forced to engage a mech army directly, try to do so out in the open field where you can get the greatest spread possible and try to catch him unsieged. | ||
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teamhozac
404 Posts
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MonDeW
Denmark369 Posts
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iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
For example, if I was going mech and a split map situation occurred, should I keep building production until Im able to remax in one production cycle or is this a waste of resources? Is the number of orbital command centres to be built (for mules) based on the amount of remaining resources left in the game, e.g. Is it better to mine out the map faster but have less overall bank? | ||
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MonDeW
Denmark369 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:46 iHirO wrote: Is there a formula for late game Terran on how much production and orbitals to build? I've always winged it but wonder if theres an optimal amount to produce. For example, if I was going mech and a split map situation occurred, should I keep building production until Im able to remax in one production cycle or is this a waste of resources? Is the number of orbital command centres to be built (for mules) based on the amount of remaining resources left in the game, e.g. Is it better to mine out the map faster but have less overall bank? Depends on the match up, but if you're going mech against mech in tvt, and it's split-map, then make sure to make a tech switch to battlecruiser and/or get air control. You can still have a lot of factories, counting on the fact that you have a lot of gas. In TvZ, i think getting a lot of factories along the way is nice, because then you can react to the tech switches that the zerg can do lategame. Also, a very important thing to remember when using mech is; you are going to have a lot of excess minerals, so just build command centers whenever you think you can afford it, even in the midgame. It's really good to have mules to fall back on if you lose scv's, are having a lot of scans. | ||
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SFGIANTS91
United States51 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:30 MonDeW wrote: So, TvZ has changed, and i see a lot of pros doing the Hellion Banshee opening, but i'm having trouble finding a replay of it. Does anyone have a replay of them using it/ of a pro using it? hey mondew! day 9 does a daily on this exact type of opening, it focuses on marine king against dongraegu! he shows how to open that way into bio and then into mech. pretty cool. good luck! link below. day 9 archive link to nutty tvz | ||
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Vanchen
55 Posts
1. I had way to many SCVs 2. I was fine up until the 3rd engagement of 200/200 with his infestors and ling/bling crushing my army. 3. Even though my opening didn't do that much damage (or no damage) it delayed his 3rd and I had equal upgrades with his very early double evo. 4. More tanks? http://drop.sc/185087 | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On May 22 2012 18:45 iAmJeffReY wrote: This is the biggest rage filled post I have seen. And sadly, about everything you said is purely wrong. Search through this thread, find the build order I posted for the demuslim style TvZ 1 rax FE with a marine/hellion stim/cs/+1 push. I'll even repost replays for you, my unhappy friend. http://drop.sc/176261 vs 970 masters Z http://drop.sc/176262 vs 760 masters Z http://drop.sc/176263 vs 1300 masters Z http://drop.sc/181272 vs 950 masters Z http://drop.sc/181273 vs 1100 masters Z (Zelia, the rager streaming zerg, so funny his after game rage) http://drop.sc/181537 vs 1220 masters Z There ya go. There are a ton of examples of an early game attack working, and most times straight out winning the game against this 'fast third' style of ZvT. 10 depot 12rax 15 depot 16 gas 17 oc 21 cc 23 fac 23 reactor on rax 24 depot 25 rax 25 rax There's a basic opening BO for it. how do you manage roaches or bling busts? Actually some questions: 1) How do you handle banelings in your first attack at around 8 minutes~ at the 3rd? Are there usually no banelings at that point if they go fast 3rd or what? 2) What do you do if they don't take a 3rd? (or late normal) Turtle up and go normal? | ||
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joeschmo
United States167 Posts
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13JackaL
United States577 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:30 MonDeW wrote: So, TvZ has changed, and i see a lot of pros doing the Hellion Banshee opening, but i'm having trouble finding a replay of it. Does anyone have a replay of them using it/ of a pro using it? Download the IPL4 replay pack. It may be prepatch but if you look at group D, basically you see MMA, Bomber, jjakji, and byun all raping Idra with that build. It works great even after the patch too. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
TvZ 1 rax FE You're not talking about a 1 Barracks FE here, remember?  Though maybe it does because of 16 gas instead of 15........ Maybe I just think that 1 Barracks FE always equals nothing but at most 2 depots and 1 barracks before CC.I will watch the replays tomorrow though. I'm heavily lacking in mid game transitions atm. | ||
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rpdla
Korea (South)11 Posts
2. Is it better to have more production facilities than generally required before max?, e.g. having normal amount - semi-slowly working down your money if it spikes during micro battles vs having more than needed and instantly spend resources after a spike (I understand it's better just to not have spikes but sometimes its inevitable) | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On May 23 2012 17:17 rpdla wrote: 1. In TvP when is a good time to start ghost production? 2. Is it better to have more production facilities than generally required before max?, e.g. having normal amount - semi-slowly working down your money if it spikes during micro battles vs having more than needed and instantly spend resources after a spike (I understand it's better just to not have spikes but sometimes its inevitable) 1) I always start at the very latest when I get my 3rd base's gas up. If they rush to templar, I always go as soon as I see templar. 2) It's always good to add, not sure what you're asking. | ||
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rpdla
Korea (South)11 Posts
For question 2 I meant: Is it better for me to stay on (e.g.) around 5 rax (w/ addons) and 1 port (reactor) on 3 base, adding more only after max or start adding more before max (because I can generally keep my resources relatively low before max on just the 5 rax and port, except for spikes during micro) | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On May 23 2012 17:33 rpdla wrote: Ah thanks, For question 2 I meant: Is it better for me to stay on (e.g.) around 5 rax (w/ addons) and 1 port (reactor) on 3 base, adding more only after max or start adding more before max (because I can generally keep my resources relatively low before max on just the 5 rax and port, except for spikes during micro) It really depends on how you play IMO. If you can keep your resources low, and have your rax's always producing, then sure, wait till max. For me, I like to add them gradually, and when I hit a decent bank, I'll add on a lot at once. I know one of my friends though, gets stupid amounts of bank, and drops like 10 rax's, and then it happens again, and he has enough to defend even though he's not producing optimally. | ||
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
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