|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
I really hate to complain about balance but I'm really pissed off.
I'm a masters player and I'm so fucking sick of playing Terran and getting owned by players with 1/2 my apm, players so bad they get supply blocked constantly and build up to 9 overlords at once, twice in one game. I seriously almost never get supply blocked since I build supply depots by the number of bases I have. I try to put pressure on zerg throughout the whole game, I do a gasless expand and put on bunker pressure, I move out with small squads of marines early and then turn around when I'm near his base, I drop in mutiple locations, I hit timing attacks, but it doesn't matter, as soon as they see you coming they can make 300 zerglings at once, if they don't already have 3 times as much as you. Then I go watch the replay and this zerg has 3 fucking hotkeys... 3. I watch his vision and while microing mutas he goes on 30 second spree's where he never even looks away from his mutas while pressing 1 hotkey and making tons of units while doing so. Then every 30 seconds he goes back and injects. Zerg is seriously so god damn easy to play it's a joke.
Then there is Protoss where their micro consists of pressing guardian shield, a moving and throwing out random storms that hit more of their own army than mine. Then warp in 20 zealots while they a move chargelots and archons while I try to stutter step and build units at the same time while trying to hit emp's and micro vikings. There are times when I scout a Protoss base, see blatently that he is 4 gating, build 3 bunkers in preperation, hotkey scv's and try to repair. But oop he forcefielded my scv's from repairing, then he does the same to the next 2 bunkers while I try to remake another bunker but by that time it's already over. Warp gate is retarded.
Then I play TvT and win at least 70% of them if not more.
I would switch to Protoss or Zerg but I have tried and I find nothing fun about turtling and then A moving my army to victory.
Do you guys who are at least masters really think that Terran is fine? The fact that Terran is so much harder to play fine with you guys? The fact that Terran has no T3, the fact that we have to put the pressure on constantly every game and have the hardest macro at the same time, the fact that Protoss can warp units in anywhere they want, the fact that Zerg can make as many units at once as they want, the fact that chargelots and archons require literally 0 micro and are yet basically impossible to stop. Is all this seriously fine with you guys?
User was warned for this post
|
On May 21 2012 09:30 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 07:33 Absentia wrote:I just played a game against a high masters toss and was wondering if somebody would look over the replay for me. I'm pretty confident TvP but i'm just looking to take my game to another level. Any flaws in my play, any timings I should be thinking about, any aggression I should be doing but wasn't etc. I'm also not so used to CC first in TvP so if anybody is familiar with CC first timings, i'd appreciate the input. My main idea was that I was only on 8 barracks at the end of the game. If I was on more, I might've been able to remax quicker, (and hence stand a better chance in the last engagement). http://drop.sc/183814 You let the P get to 200 supply and never attacked after your first attack was repelled. That's just not allowed... So my advice to you would be: "attack, attack, attack". Your upgrades were late and you never got conc and you "only" had 47 SCVs at 10 mins. I believe a CC first should be able to reach 53 as 1 rax CC can have 50. You wouldn't have been able to remax quicker near the end with more barracks because you had no money. You were also sacking SCVs at 150 supply, what was that about?
At what point was I in a position to attack, though? He was way ahead in upgrades and had too many colossus for my viking count to deal with. His quick third also meant he got super quick HTs which I didn't feel comfortable attacking into without a decent ghost count, (hence why I eventually wait until max/fully upgraded before any engagement).
Watching the replay again, it looks like I should've been more aggressive towards his third base when my medivacs popped but post that, I can't really see any other point i'd have been able to be aggressive.
Isn't 8 minute +1 followed by engie bay(2) and armory at 1/2 +1 armor pretty standard in terms of upgrades? I know you can get +1 weapons earlier if you skimp on addons but that obviously makes your initial medivac push weaker. Which part of my upgrades should I be getting quicker?
I started sacrificing SCVs at 22:00 because I had too many for 2 base saturation + 5 orbital's worth of mules, (I was still on too many after that). Though it didn't really matter at that point since I simply couldn't reinforce fast enough. At a similar point, i've also got 1.3k minerals and 1.5k gas. That's certainly not no money for maybe 4 more rax.
|
On May 21 2012 15:37 Solo Terran wrote:
Do you guys who are at least masters really think that Terran is fine? The fact that Terran is so much harder to play fine with you guys? The fact that Terran has no T3, the fact that we have to put the pressure on constantly every game and have the hardest macro at the same time, the fact that Protoss can warp units in anywhere they want, the fact that Zerg can make as many units at once as they want, the fact that chargelots and archons require literally 0 micro and are yet basically impossible to stop. Is all this seriously fine with you guys?
User was warned for this post
You should have just wrote down this part...
I am not masters. But I really think terran should have some kind of T3. I mean whats considered t3 for Terran? BC? LOL! Thor? Well...
The point is both kind of suck against toss... and against Zerg idk when the last time was I saw a bc.
Both t3 from Zerg and toss is really scary. Especially Zerg t3 for me and that's just not the case for terran.
|
On May 21 2012 16:55 TAAF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:37 Solo Terran wrote:
Do you guys who are at least masters really think that Terran is fine? The fact that Terran is so much harder to play fine with you guys? The fact that Terran has no T3, the fact that we have to put the pressure on constantly every game and have the hardest macro at the same time, the fact that Protoss can warp units in anywhere they want, the fact that Zerg can make as many units at once as they want, the fact that chargelots and archons require literally 0 micro and are yet basically impossible to stop. Is all this seriously fine with you guys?
User was warned for this post You should have just wrote down this part... I am not masters. But I really think terran should have some kind of T3. I mean whats considered t3 for Terran? BC? LOL! Thor? Well... The point is both kind of suck against toss... and against Zerg idk when the last time was I saw a bc. Both t3 from Zerg and toss is really scary. Especially Zerg t3 for me and that's just not the case for terran.
Just gotta deal with the fact that terran gets worse as the game goes on and the other races get better.
|
|
|
@iAmJeffReY Since you do not understand the question do not answer it.
This is nothing about the style that one prefers, but a general question of 3-4 builds that I can use and practice vs each race that is used widely.
Has nothing to do with my league as well, as it clearly states in the question "essential oppenings"
There is nothing in depth about it, its a simple question which needs to be provided with the same simple answer, which is a lot more simple instead of your useless annoying garbage post.
And what has scouting got to do with a build order?
If you don't have any sense going through your head, do not post anything at all
User was warned for this post
|
On May 21 2012 15:37 Solo Terran wrote:
I really hate to complain about balance but I'm really pissed off.
I'm a masters player and I'm so fucking sick of playing Terran and getting owned by players with 1/2 my apm, players so bad they get supply blocked constantly and build up to 9 overlords at once, twice in one game. I seriously almost never get supply blocked since I build supply depots by the number of bases I have. I try to put pressure on zerg throughout the whole game, I do a gasless expand and put on bunker pressure, I move out with small squads of marines early and then turn around when I'm near his base, I drop in mutiple locations, I hit timing attacks, but it doesn't matter, as soon as they see you coming they can make 300 zerglings at once, if they don't already have 3 times as much as you. Then I go watch the replay and this zerg has 3 fucking hotkeys... 3. I watch his vision and while microing mutas he goes on 30 second spree's where he never even looks away from his mutas while pressing 1 hotkey and making tons of units while doing so. Then every 30 seconds he goes back and injects. Zerg is seriously so god damn easy to play it's a joke.
Then there is Protoss where their micro consists of pressing guardian shield, a moving and throwing out random storms that hit more of their own army than mine. Then warp in 20 zealots while they a move chargelots and archons while I try to stutter step and build units at the same time while trying to hit emp's and micro vikings. There are times when I scout a Protoss base, see blatently that he is 4 gating, build 3 bunkers in preperation, hotkey scv's and try to repair. But oop he forcefielded my scv's from repairing, then he does the same to the next 2 bunkers while I try to remake another bunker but by that time it's already over. Warp gate is retarded.
Then I play TvT and win at least 70% of them if not more.
I would switch to Protoss or Zerg but I have tried and I find nothing fun about turtling and then A moving my army to victory.
Do you guys who are at least masters really think that Terran is fine? The fact that Terran is so much harder to play fine with you guys? The fact that Terran has no T3, the fact that we have to put the pressure on constantly every game and have the hardest macro at the same time, the fact that Protoss can warp units in anywhere they want, the fact that Zerg can make as many units at once as they want, the fact that chargelots and archons require literally 0 micro and are yet basically impossible to stop. Is all this seriously fine with you guys?
User was warned for this post
Masters on EU here, i totally agree, Terran lategame is ridiculous atm. You have to do massive damage in the midgame, or it's simply over. and hell, even dropping doesn't achieve anything, when the zerg just has a thousand spines at each base while he runs into my army with 10 broods, lings banes and infestors. In case i barely hold that off he just remaxes on ultra/ling and i look like a big tit because i cant build marauders in time.
I think blizzard really needs to buff terran lategame, our T3 is shit.
|
On May 21 2012 16:34 Absentia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 09:30 kuroshiroi wrote:On May 21 2012 07:33 Absentia wrote:I just played a game against a high masters toss and was wondering if somebody would look over the replay for me. I'm pretty confident TvP but i'm just looking to take my game to another level. Any flaws in my play, any timings I should be thinking about, any aggression I should be doing but wasn't etc. I'm also not so used to CC first in TvP so if anybody is familiar with CC first timings, i'd appreciate the input. My main idea was that I was only on 8 barracks at the end of the game. If I was on more, I might've been able to remax quicker, (and hence stand a better chance in the last engagement). http://drop.sc/183814 You let the P get to 200 supply and never attacked after your first attack was repelled. That's just not allowed... So my advice to you would be: "attack, attack, attack". Your upgrades were late and you never got conc and you "only" had 47 SCVs at 10 mins. I believe a CC first should be able to reach 53 as 1 rax CC can have 50. You wouldn't have been able to remax quicker near the end with more barracks because you had no money. You were also sacking SCVs at 150 supply, what was that about? At what point was I in a position to attack, though? He was way ahead in upgrades and had too many colossus for my viking count to deal with. His quick third also meant he got super quick HTs which I didn't feel comfortable attacking into without a decent ghost count, (hence why I eventually wait until max/fully upgraded before any engagement). Watching the replay again, it looks like I should've been more aggressive towards his third base when my medivacs popped but post that, I can't really see any other point i'd have been able to be aggressive. Isn't 8 minute +1 followed by engie bay(2) and armory at 1/2 +1 armor pretty standard in terms of upgrades? I know you can get +1 weapons earlier if you skimp on addons but that obviously makes your initial medivac push weaker. Which part of my upgrades should I be getting quicker? I started sacrificing SCVs at 22:00 because I had too many for 2 base saturation + 5 orbital's worth of mules, (I was still on too many after that). Though it didn't really matter at that point since I simply couldn't reinforce fast enough. At a similar point, i've also got 1.3k minerals and 1.5k gas. That's certainly not no money for maybe 4 more rax.
I guess it was more of a case of the P getting really quick upgrades than you getting them slow. Your +3 armor was a little bit slow but at that point it didn't really matter too much. But don't forget conc 
You should have scanned or something before your first engagement and attacked the third base once you were at maybe 6-7 vikings instead of rushing against those 2 quick colossi, maybe?
You should only sacrifice SCVs when you're maxed and you have a large bank. Throwing SCVs away at 150 supply accomplishes nothing, in fact it hurts you. You had 8 partially mined mineral patches at your nat and 8 at your main, with a total of ~7000 minerals left to mine. Your third had 9 SCVs on mins. So you were mining minerals with a grand total of 33 (24 at third + 9) SCVs and 21 SCVs in gas, which is about 9 SCVs too many on gas at that point and 15 SCVs too little on minerals. As a result, you lacked mins to make barracks and units.
The game was lost way before that, since P imba yo, but you definitely could have spent your mins and SCVs more wisely.
|
I completely agree, after all the ghost nerfs, tvp and tvz are just ridiculously easy for the other races lategame. Ghost/tank was one of the only really cost effective ways to engage with a broodlord corrupter infestor army.
|
if enemy doesnt go HT is there any point of getting ghosts then?
|
On May 22 2012 04:05 SKDN wrote:
if enemy doesnt go HT is there any point of getting ghosts then?
Ye you need it vs any lategame toss army because the shields help them too much otherwise, e.g. a mass chargelot/archon army crushes you without ghosts.
|
On May 22 2012 04:05 SKDN wrote:
if enemy doesnt go HT is there any point of getting ghosts then?
They help definitely, and you should always get them if you can afford them because if they do end up switching to HT tech, you don't want to be caught with your pants down.
|
On May 22 2012 01:19 RedSox12 wrote:
@iAmJeffReY Since you do not understand the question do not answer it.
This is nothing about the style that one prefers, but a general question of 3-4 builds that I can use and practice vs each race that is used widely.
Has nothing to do with my league as well, as it clearly states in the question "essential oppenings"
There is nothing in depth about it, its a simple question which needs to be provided with the same simple answer, which is a lot more simple instead of your useless annoying garbage post.
And what has scouting got to do with a build order?
If you don't have any sense going through your head, do not post anything at all
User was warned for this post
...What?
League has a lot to do, as in what are your approx. capabilities, and what would YOU face, as we probably face much different styles.
Essential openings are like beauty, in the eye of the beholder... Essential openings to me are always 100% aggressive openings, as I don't like slow, passive play. You may like slow macro based play, so my aggressive timing builds aren't for you.
You ask for a skeleton build order with scouting clues x4 for 3 races... You want 12 build orders, and scouting clues for a 35 second post? Do you not understand why I ask you to be more clear? Do you just want typed out BOs, or replays of the BOs?
And what has scouting got to do with a build order
See, you answered my league question right there, with that question. Scouting is paramount to each build, especially to builds on the far ends of each spectrum, both macro and timing builds. You need to know if they go fucking 10 gate, or double chrono zealot if you 1 depot 1 rax gasless FE on the low ground...You need to know if it's 2 gas or 1 to know what could be coming your way, so you alter your follow up of the opening.
So, in all seriousness, nothing I said/asked for was useless garbage. Infact, check about 75% of my posts on TL, each and every one thought out and usually slews of replay examples, or solid points/times.
So I ask again, what league are you? What opening style do you like? Do you want replays, or skeleton build orders?
|
Does PDD stop queen ground attack now?
|
|
|
On May 22 2012 16:41 Douillos wrote:
Does PDD stop queen ground attack now?
Apparently so.
On May 22 2012 04:05 SKDN wrote:
if enemy doesnt go HT is there any point of getting ghosts then?
Yes and no. Personally if the opponent doesnt get HTs/Archons I tend not to get past 3 ghosts, as there really isnt much that needs to be EMPed. Unless the guy is still going for immortals then maybe yeah. The reason is that in engagments - The protoss will be heavier on chargelots, which emps dont do much against, Guardian shields will be up already - which cant be cancelled by emp, and if you say forcefield I would slap you - You are supposed to engage in a wide open space, with your army spread out and shit - which means forcefields are pretty much useless anyways. Unless I have to, waiting for ghosts tend to delay my pushes so Id rather just get more marines and instantly attack when I hit 200/200, rather than wait for them to come out, get a good emp off and shit.
Also to quote Imoperator - You'd want a few backups just in case the asshole has a couple nice electrifying surprises waiting for you around some dark alley corner..
However..there really isnt a protoss who doesnt use HTs anymore, are there?
Btw to the rest - This isnt the Terran QQ Thread, you come here to get help with problems, not to whine.
|
hello all,
I am a platinum level terran looking for some help tvp. i am actually pretty successful in a standard tvp game, but i have been getting busted by early immortal pushes. it seems like even i i have 3 bunkers up the immortals can just use their ridiculous dps to break them down and from there i kind of just lose. i considered going early ghost, but to me that seems extremely weak against anything but early HT or early immortal pushes,along with the fact that being able to have ghosts up at a timing like 7-9 minutes is kind of impossible. i guess what im asking is should i go more marine heavy or maybe just sack natural wait for medis and base trade? any help or replay or whatevs would be amazing. thanks guys <3
|
On May 22 2012 17:21 SFGIANTS91 wrote:
hello all,
I am a platinum level terran looking for some help tvp. i am actually pretty successful in a standard tvp game, but i have been getting busted by early immortal pushes. it seems like even i i have 3 bunkers up the immortals can just use their ridiculous dps to break them down and from there i kind of just lose. i considered going early ghost, but to me that seems extremely weak against anything but early HT or early immortal pushes,along with the fact that being able to have ghosts up at a timing like 7-9 minutes is kind of impossible. i guess what im asking is should i go more marine heavy or maybe just sack natural wait for medis and base trade? any help or replay or whatevs would be amazing. thanks guys <3
Bunkers dont do shit against immortal busts - that is a fact. The main factor in holding these busts is a good build opener and knowing when the bust is coming - I suggest going for 1 rax FE into 4 rax - this gives you a shit ton of marines that can easily hold every early game aggression the protoss can throw at you (other than 1 base collosus). In my experience I would simply pull all the scvs at my nat to tank and just roll over the protoss. Since he is on one base, dont be afraid to lose the scvs - also if you feel your macro is hurting during battle, consider adding barracks 5 and 6 if his aggression is still constant.
|
Can somebody give me BO for 2 rax cheese that MVP does in TvP? thx :D
|
What do you guys do in TvZ now?
Ever since the patch change i find every opening useless. Reactor hellion? Doesn't matter, creep still spreads so much because of the queen range, giving them space to take a third.
Reapers? Queens out range them.
1 rax expand? They take a quick 4th and tech to infestors and rush hive.
The only opening i do that has any success rate is the proxy 11/11 rax for a quick win.
That is the opening i feel...safe doing. Everything else seems to be pointless to try because creep will still spread insanely quick, and a 3rd will be taken quicker because of the queen range buff. I am at a complete and utter loss.
TvZ was my best match up before this buff, and now anytime i see a zerg i have to decide between losing because i cant deny creep or a 3rd anymore, or cheesing to get a win.
And yes, i have tried cloaked banshees. But any zerg with a brain will get atleast one spore by the time they show up making them utterly useless because they will just move drones.
I am at a loss. Contemplating switching races because the grass seems so much greener on the other side. They get buffs, we get our early-midgame advantage shut down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
