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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On May 18 2012 05:29 ViciousZerg wrote:
I just started playing Terran and I have been encountering a lot of Protoss's that go heavy cannon's all around their base and blocking off areas. My question is what is the safest way to deal with these instead of just macro-ing up trying to muscle through them. It really seems like an inefficient way to deal with it. Thanks for any help.
Marauders + medivacs not good enough? Marauders laugh at cannons. But yeah, macro better.
If you want something more fancy, try nukes or BCs? This seems like a non-issue to me...
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Is reactor hellion still the best build in TvsZ?
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(diamond T here)recently in tvz iv been opening with siege mode/tank first (2nd gas after factory) this stops the popular roach rush iv been seeing alot lately. from there i transition into mech, using hellions and a planetary to take a super fast third.
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On May 20 2012 03:22 stichtom wrote:
Is reactor hellion still the best build in TvsZ?
It's hard to say. 1 rax FE seems to be much better for me. Since queens now are really good v. hellions and reapers, 2 great openings that hardly have the same potency...
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After encountering 4 queen openers from every zerg the last matches, I have to ask about what do I against it. Been playing around with hellion/banshee builds recently but they seem to be shut down really hard by queen play with delayed gas.
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On May 20 2012 05:52 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 03:22 stichtom wrote:
Is reactor hellion still the best build in TvsZ? It's hard to say. 1 rax FE seems to be much better for me. Since queens now are really good v. hellions and reapers, 2 great openings that hardly have the same potency...
1 rax FE into what?
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On May 20 2012 06:47 stichtom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 05:52 zmansman17 wrote:On May 20 2012 03:22 stichtom wrote:
Is reactor hellion still the best build in TvsZ? It's hard to say. 1 rax FE seems to be much better for me. Since queens now are really good v. hellions and reapers, 2 great openings that hardly have the same potency... 1 rax FE into what?
Depends on what your midgame plan is. 1rax FE is super flexible and transitions into almost every macro strategy in the Terran playbook. If you want some kind of timing push, get up double gas, three rax, factory, and hit with CS or Stim and siege mode. Or, you could play the "I'm-going-to-be-greedy-as-fuck-and-pray-that-he-doesn't-bust-me" super macro style, and tech straight up to bansheess for harass, double ebays, and a third OC, and then add on more rax later on. I'm a personal fan of the triple OC style, but both work.
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On May 20 2012 06:44 Kamelixs wrote:
After encountering 4 queen openers from every zerg the last matches, I have to ask about what do I against it. Been playing around with hellion/banshee builds recently but they seem to be shut down really hard by queen play with delayed gas.
I face it all the time. That, to me, means a fast third behind very few lings. I go for my normal push 2-1-0 push with stimcs+1 and just constant pressure once I know the third is coming. Scan the main to see if he took gasses early if you want. Before that, I have 3-4 hellions + 5-8 marines on the map, as no amount of slow lings he makes can take me off the map. Sure, he can connect main and natural, but you can stop it from that point until he gets roaches out, or speed on his lings.
So, for me, 1 rax FE demuslim style is working wonders.
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On May 20 2012 07:09 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 06:44 Kamelixs wrote:
After encountering 4 queen openers from every zerg the last matches, I have to ask about what do I against it. Been playing around with hellion/banshee builds recently but they seem to be shut down really hard by queen play with delayed gas.
I face it all the time. That, to me, means a fast third behind very few lings. I go for my normal push 2-1-0 push with stimcs+1 and just constant pressure once I know the third is coming. Scan the main to see if he took gasses early if you want. Before that, I have 3-4 hellions + 5-8 marines on the map, as no amount of slow lings he makes can take me off the map. Sure, he can connect main and natural, but you can stop it from that point until he gets roaches out, or speed on his lings. So, for me, 1 rax FE demuslim style is working wonders.
Thanks!
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I need tvp help. ive been hearing that terran is supposed to have the advantage early/mid game and that you should move out when the medivacs pop, so I do. By the time I get to his base he allready has either collossus or HT out. I do whatever I can, the last game I played I actually sniped off his third. But it didnt matter then, as it usually doesnt as I am not able to actually cripple toss so that it matters when the late games rolls around. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am this close to quitting this game.
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On May 20 2012 12:30 Aveng3r wrote:
I need tvp help. ive been hearing that terran is supposed to have the advantage early/mid game and that you should move out when the medivacs pop, so I do. By the time I get to his base he allready has either collossus or HT out. I do whatever I can, the last game I played I actually sniped off his third. But it didnt matter then, as it usually doesnt as I am not able to actually cripple toss so that it matters when the late games rolls around. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am this close to quitting this game.
Moving out is correct, but no one ever said anything about attacking up his ramp and attempting to win the game there. You are supposed to maintain map control and prevent toss from obtaining a third for as long as possible, while you force him to be scared all the time (sniping his obs is awesome). If you dont want to you dont have to do drops/attacks if you experience losing too much and doing not enough damage, and toss just ends up pushing out right away and rolling. The map control is for you to get a fast third and gain economic advantage - which if done right, you can max out as early as when toss is still on 150 food, and go roll him over.
As your medics are out, you should be scanning/using factory to find out his composition to determine if you should start pumping vikings or more medevacs, and also whether is teching or going for some 2 base all-in. If toss attempts to expand to third base, he'll have his army there defending. Depending on map, attack where his army isnt to force his army out of position (Dropping his main is usually the idea), then attack his third with the rest of the army. The idea is to snipe the third, not to deal damage with the drop (unless the window is open and you can snipe techs/stray units), so remember to back the drops and units out. This could all go horribly wrong if you only managed to kill his third but at the cost of all the units, so remember to back the fuck out if you have to.
By now your third should be up already and have ~5-7rax (I compensate for bad macro during battles) pumping units out, and 3-3 on the way.
Also - most of the time you'd want to fight at his third after maxing out, as its usually more out of position for the protoss army, giving you positional advantage. Killing the third after the battle will usually force the protoss to tap out as his income will be halved (main and nat already mined a lot). However, if this isnt achievable, just find the most open spot on the map, position everything well, and get his army to attack you.
Remember to snipe the obs to keep toss in the dark before attacking into him.
I forgot who said it, but its generally accepted that as long as terran gets 2-2 up before toss gets third base terran will usually win late game. ON LADDER.
Also, need a replay as your problem seems more specific.
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On May 20 2012 12:30 Aveng3r wrote:
I need tvp help. ive been hearing that terran is supposed to have the advantage early/mid game and that you should move out when the medivacs pop, so I do. By the time I get to his base he allready has either collossus or HT out. I do whatever I can, the last game I played I actually sniped off his third. But it didnt matter then, as it usually doesnt as I am not able to actually cripple toss so that it matters when the late games rolls around. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am this close to quitting this game.
Terran doesn't actually have a midgame advantage as long as protoss plays safe.
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On May 20 2012 13:10 xPabt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 12:30 Aveng3r wrote:
I need tvp help. ive been hearing that terran is supposed to have the advantage early/mid game and that you should move out when the medivacs pop, so I do. By the time I get to his base he allready has either collossus or HT out. I do whatever I can, the last game I played I actually sniped off his third. But it didnt matter then, as it usually doesnt as I am not able to actually cripple toss so that it matters when the late games rolls around. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am this close to quitting this game. Terran doesn't actually have a midgame advantage as long as protoss plays safe.
Yeah. Similar supply of Stalker/Immortal/Sentry/Zealot is actually really, really good against MMM, although it delays the Protoss' tech.
Instead, delay his third base while getting up your own, and get Vikings/Ghosts depending on what tech he's making. Remember that around 13:00-14:00 he'll add the other T3 unit into his main army, so watch out for that.
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Hey guys, Ive been hearing a few people talking about reapers in the end game mix vs P.
Thoughts?
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I've been thinking about incorporating landed Vikings in TvP. Specifically--once I get to three base to start getting air upgrades while transitioning to marine/Viking/medivac/scvs instead of marine marauder play.
The goal being that I feel they fare better vs zealots/archon in the late game.
My question is this--how does one scout out the toss zealot/archon transition?
Being that I want to stay marine/marauder just long enough for then to go "oh cool, I'll switch to zealots" and then suddenly spam Vikings from 3 reactored starports in the late game.
Edit: I don't know if going landed Vikings will work or not in real game scenarios--i just want to experiment with the composition. The reason for my question was knowing how to scout out the Protoss army.
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On May 20 2012 12:42 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 12:30 Aveng3r wrote:
I need tvp help. ive been hearing that terran is supposed to have the advantage early/mid game and that you should move out when the medivacs pop, so I do. By the time I get to his base he allready has either collossus or HT out. I do whatever I can, the last game I played I actually sniped off his third. But it didnt matter then, as it usually doesnt as I am not able to actually cripple toss so that it matters when the late games rolls around. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am this close to quitting this game. Moving out is correct, but no one ever said anything about attacking up his ramp and attempting to win the game there. You are supposed to maintain map control and prevent toss from obtaining a third for as long as possible, while you force him to be scared all the time (sniping his obs is awesome). If you dont want to you dont have to do drops/attacks if you experience losing too much and doing not enough damage, and toss just ends up pushing out right away and rolling. The map control is for you to get a fast third and gain economic advantage - which if done right, you can max out as early as when toss is still on 150 food, and go roll him over. As your medics are out, you should be scanning/using factory to find out his composition to determine if you should start pumping vikings or more medevacs, and also whether is teching or going for some 2 base all-in. If toss attempts to expand to third base, he'll have his army there defending. Depending on map, attack where his army isnt to force his army out of position (Dropping his main is usually the idea), then attack his third with the rest of the army. The idea is to snipe the third, not to deal damage with the drop (unless the window is open and you can snipe techs/stray units), so remember to back the drops and units out. This could all go horribly wrong if you only managed to kill his third but at the cost of all the units, so remember to back the fuck out if you have to. By now your third should be up already and have ~5-7rax (I compensate for bad macro during battles) pumping units out, and 3-3 on the way. Also - most of the time you'd want to fight at his third after maxing out, as its usually more out of position for the protoss army, giving you positional advantage. Killing the third after the battle will usually force the protoss to tap out as his income will be halved (main and nat already mined a lot). However, if this isnt achievable, just find the most open spot on the map, position everything well, and get his army to attack you. Remember to snipe the obs to keep toss in the dark before attacking into him. I forgot who said it, but its generally accepted that as long as terran gets 2-2 up before toss gets third base terran will usually win late game. ON LADDER. Also, need a replay as your problem seems more specific.
Thanks a lot for the help dude, last night when I wrote the post I was fuming mad. But after reading this I am definitely going to do some things differently. Thanks again for the advice.
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Hey.
Gold level terran here. 3 things that bother me:
1: I´m so bored of opening hellions tvz and want something different. So i´ve tryed some banshee stuff. Not very fast ones and without cloak just to snipe some creep. I do a 1 rax fe with gas fast factory only 1-2 rax. The difference in units is big, but i really like what I can do with the one banshee ( I build reactor on sp after 1 then using the techlab for a second fac. What do you think is this viable or too much distracting me from building up an army while not doing enough damage?
2: typical TvP problem xD i think i understand the matchup and everything but i´m still failing hard. What i´m looking for is the perfect opening for an 10 min stim attack. I think it´s the only way playing this matchup in a semi-macro style, atleast at my level. So the 1 rax fe is obvious, but what now? 3 rax before fac or less? ebay timing? when to add reactors/techlabs? I tryed many things, but i´m really bad at making BO´s myself ( was a zerg player before and only played reactonary^^) and even worse at reading pro player BO`s since there´s like always something they see that lets them do things different. So my goal would be the hardest 10 min stim attack imagineable while building up a third and having 2/2 roling.
3: Colossus based armies are a pain in the ass, but I can manage them and i can win games against a colossus based protoss player. However those archon templar zealot stuff is making me gg as soon as the toss moves out, psystorms are hunting me in my dreams. I often lose games where i´m 4 base with only 1k floating ( which is basicly pretty good for me and for gold in general lol^^) and he´s like 2 base 4k floating but has this one bad ass army. So I try to sneak onto him with cloaked ghosts and emp as many templars as possible while not caring for the zealots. then i stim, a- move and start shutter stepping as soon as he charges. Normal follow up is 100 storms wrecking my army while I sit there hands behind my had mouth open... Is there any possibilty that i can stand still not shutter stepping? I know from fighting against stalker templar armies how much better i can prepare from not eating devastating storms by a moving then spreading stepping forward. When I step backwards vs zealots i usually clump up all my units and 2-3 storms are my doom. So should I just stay there? I shutterstep using the S key just saying if this makes any difference?
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Hi,
1) The opening doesnßt matter that much, but you must have an overall plan. Your opening has to fit with your plan. If you just do it, to deny some creep it seems as too much deviation from Marine Tank Medivac. What is your follow up plan? How do you want to pressure his third or when do you want to take your third? Create or pick an opening which fits perfect with your overall gameplan for the map. Maybe this opener works pretty well on some maps and on other maps not. Noone can say, that is the best opening. You have to design your play on the different maps.
2) The "Standard" follow up after a 1 Rax fe is to build 2 additional Barracks and then 2 Gas and add a Techlab as soon as possible and start Stim. From here on it really depends on your goal and on the situation. You can either go straight into Factory with the next 100 Gas and get a verry fast Starport to start Drop Herrass or you can get your addons with the next gas and start your Ebay for a more defensive style. For addons the standard is to add a Techlab and a Reactor so that you have 3 Rax (2 w Techlab, 1 w Reactor), but some players like to add 2 Reactors for more Marines early on. 2 Reactors is strong aggainst the heavy Gateway style into HT but "weak" aggainst the Collossus builds. Your idea to have a very strong 10 Minute timing + 3rd + 2/2 upgradin is almost impossible. You have to decide what way you want to go. More upgrades and an expandtion to have a stronger attack later on or for a fast attack and an expandtion.
3) The first thing you have to do in TvP is to scout, if your opponent is going Collo or HT first. For this you have your 10 Minute attack with 2 Medivacs and a bit Bio. After you scout his tech you can react to it. Aggainst Collo first you build a 2nd Starport to get both Vikings and Medivacs. Aggainst HT first you get your Ghost Academy ASAP. The good thing about HT first is, that you can constantly produce Medivacs out of your 1st Starport so that you can get to 6-8 Medivacs ASAP. The key aggainst HT based Protoss armies is to have a lot of Ghost for EMPs. Like 5-6 with full energy. That´s because you have to EMP all the Protoss army before the battle, so that he can just have 1-2 Storms, which you have to dodge.
I hope this hepled a bit.
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Northern Ireland25081 Posts
Protoss player here, was high Diamond for a bit there before having to stop for exams etc.
Gotten really fed up playing the race and have been looking to work on my off-race, if not switch entirely. My strengths are generally my control and my multitasking, the latter doesn't really help me too much as P.
Anyway, what would be the kind of optimal builds to go for, I have been almost completely improvising and my rough gameplan in TvP and TvZ is very bio-upgrade and drop-centric.
Just finding safe third timings, and gas timings on my natural a bit tricky, I float a lot more gas than I'd like. Any pointers appreciated.
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Hi,
normally you build your third between 10-12 Minutes. Depending on how good your pushes work and on how much army your opponent has you have to build your third as a Planetary. On some maps i would prefer a Planetary over an Orbital 100% of the time, where it´s hard to defend. On maps like entombbed valley you can almost everytime build an Orbital.
For Gas timings. For your 3 Rax 1 Fac 1 SP setup you need 3 Gas. I normally build my 3rd Gas right after i build my Factory and i take my 4th Gas after i build my 3rd CC to start a 2nd Ebay and the armory and the other tech like Ghosts or Vikings.
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EPT
