EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 20
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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tUUTZ
Finland122 Posts
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On September 05 2011 23:01 goiflin wrote: I'd like to ask a question about building placement, specifically, on maps with small mains/naturals (I'm looking at you, abyssal caverns!). What should I do, about this, as terran? I'm so used to zerg, where I don't really have to worry about my buildings taking up space, but I played a game last night on AC where I literally had issues placing buildings at a point... am I supposed to put them in the middle of the map, or something? A couple tips are: put upgrade buildings and starports in the back of your base and behind your mineral lines where it doesn't matter since they don't produce ground units. Feel free to build supply depots wherever, then lower them so your units can walk. Plan out your base ahead of time and leave space for units to move around. Cheaper production facilities, Barracks in particular, can hang out in your natural or wherever. On September 05 2011 23:29 tUUTZ wrote: I switched from random to terran. I'm the worst player on the planet, what should I do? I lose all my games and play like ultimate shit. We'll need more information that that to really help you out, I'm afraid. Tell us what specific problems you have and we can help you. Imagine you're in my shoes, and a guy vaguely mentions that he's bad and losing his games. I [i]want/i] to help, but what can I say, given my current info? "oh, you should get better." Throw me a bone here, man. On September 06 2011 04:12 lizzard_warish wrote: Why, and in what context, do you go maruader tank over marine tank in a TVT? I'm guessing it has to do with, against bio or biomech, favour rines due to their high dps/ability to split etc, but against mech favour marauders as they can take more tank shots? You want to go marauder tank if your opponent is going hellion/tank. This is because hellions chew up marines really badly, but die to marauders, and also because if you do marauder drops, his fast-moving unit (hellion) will have trouble reacting. Lastly, marauders provide good anti-hellion-drop defense with their decent damage output and concussive shell. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 06 2011 06:09 KenDM wrote: Dear friends. I've tried the 3Rax build mentioned in another thread, but I've hit a wall. It seems that my first push at 6:40 (even though the build seems crisp in the replay) usually fails now and it feels more and more like an all in. Does anyone have a good replay with a decent 1-1-1 build with a nice enough defensive army to protect my base with? I'm not really sure what you asking. Are you looking for an aggressive 1-1-1 that isn't all in and in what matchup? | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 06 2011 06:12 Numy wrote: I'm not really sure what you asking. Are you looking for an aggressive 1-1-1 that isn't all in and in what matchup? I'm a bronze league player, so I'm not sure if the match up really matters as of yet. But sure, aggressive is a nice style, but not an all in, I want to expand and make sure I have a bulky army to destroy my opponent with when my first push fails, but it should leave enough room for defending against Muta's (I hate those things :@). | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On September 06 2011 04:12 lizzard_warish wrote: Why, and in what context, do you go maruader tank over marine tank in a TVT? I'm guessing it has to do with, against bio or biomech, favour rines due to their high dps/ability to split etc, but against mech favour marauders as they can take more tank shots? In general, this is how to respond to your opponents composition, unless you want mirror compositions: Bio - marine/tank marine/tank - hellion/tank hellion/tank - maruder/tank or pure maruder | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On September 06 2011 06:19 KenDM wrote: I'm a bronze league player, so I'm not sure if the match up really matters as of yet. But sure, aggressive is a nice style, but not an all in, I want to expand and make sure I have a bulky army to destroy my opponent with when my first push fails, but it should leave enough room for defending against Muta's (I hate those things :@). The thing that I feel about 1-1-1 openers is that there's several different routes with very different feels. They have the option of being harassment based, which allows for a decently fast expansion (even faster if you go just go with a 1 gas variant) and meanwhile you can apply pressure. On the other hand, the aggressive strong pushes are typically pretty all in since you're using a lot of resources off of just one base to gain that stronger tech. Also, even with bunkers and lack of scouting, 1-1-1 can sometimes straight up die to any kind of all-in from the opposing player (4gate, speedling rush, etc). The strength in the build lies in that it allows you to have access to higher tech to be more effective against whatever your opponent has. My suggestion is that you learn to use more economic builds like some sort of fast expand in favor of the tech heavy ones. For bronze level, Griffith's 2 rax 3 bunker FE http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TvX_2_Rax_3_Bunker_Fast_Expand_Opener is fantastic, and can really open the door to helping you learn how to macro in a variety of situations, so long as you remember to follow the 3 cardinal rules: always produce scv's, always keep your money low (produce units, manage your infrastructure), and never get supply blocked. From that opening build order, you should then branch out into whatever units you think you'll need depending on the match up (for TvZ, marine tank medivac will be the most standard route, while in TvP marine marauder medivac is the composition while adding in vikings and ghosts when needed; TvT is a pretty nebulous, dynamic matchup right now and so there's a lot of different routes that were just mentioned in the last couple posts that will work) | ||
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bakram
8 Posts
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
On September 06 2011 07:21 kofman wrote: In general, this is how to respond to your opponents composition, unless you want mirror compositions: Bio - marine/tank marine/tank - hellion/tank hellion/tank - maruder/tank or pure maruder Marine tank will likely become the norm once again after the patch because of the nerf to hellions. It is also probably the safest to go marine tank because it is fairly easy to transition into marauder tank if you scout your opponent going hellion/tank. | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On September 06 2011 11:35 envisioN . wrote: Marine tank will likely become the norm once again after the patch because of the nerf to hellions. It is also probably the safest to go marine tank because it is fairly easy to transition into marauder tank if you scout your opponent going hellion/tank. Really too bad, I was starting to enjoy mech vs mech tvt  | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On September 06 2011 11:35 envisioN . wrote: Marine tank will likely become the norm once again after the patch because of the nerf to hellions. It is also probably the safest to go marine tank because it is fairly easy to transition into marauder tank if you scout your opponent going hellion/tank. I really hope so, because mech is so stupid and killed marine/tank. I just go bio into BC's every game now because i hate going mech, but if marine/tank was viable again, i would definetly play it. | ||
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Xplitcit
United States419 Posts
On September 05 2011 17:30 Maxie wrote: A question regarding mech TvT: how come in many, many pro games, the hellion phase continues for a veeeery long time, even though siege tanks beat them quite handily? If your opponent is getting siege tanks, you have to start getting siege tanks as well. But how to know when to transition into siege tanks from hellions (taking the initiative for siege tanks)? I assume it's due to the speed of the hellions - hellions can just go around small numbers of siege tanks, and while they shouldn't pose a huge threat to the main (wall-ins are actually a good idea in TvT atm, IMO), they do to any expansion at the natural. In addition, going for hellions early on frees up gas for vikings, or shenanigans such as banshees (with or without cloak), AND infrastructure - factories actually cost gas... so so far i've been sticking to hellions until either: A: My opponent is getting siege tanks B: I have my basic infrastructure up, which is three factories and a starport. Opinions and thoughts about this? Sorry if it's a messy post, I just woke up. Lol probably because 5 hellions can beat 1 siege tank with marines support. I usually start getting tank my expansion is up and all my marines died. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 06 2011 10:11 deeshoo wrote: The thing that I feel about 1-1-1 openers is that there's several different routes with very different feels. They have the option of being harassment based, which allows for a decently fast expansion (even faster if you go just go with a 1 gas variant) and meanwhile you can apply pressure. On the other hand, the aggressive strong pushes are typically pretty all in since you're using a lot of resources off of just one base to gain that stronger tech. Also, even with bunkers and lack of scouting, 1-1-1 can sometimes straight up die to any kind of all-in from the opposing player (4gate, speedling rush, etc). The strength in the build lies in that it allows you to have access to higher tech to be more effective against whatever your opponent has. My suggestion is that you learn to use more economic builds like some sort of fast expand in favor of the tech heavy ones. For bronze level, Griffith's 2 rax 3 bunker FE http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TvX_2_Rax_3_Bunker_Fast_Expand_Opener is fantastic, and can really open the door to helping you learn how to macro in a variety of situations, so long as you remember to follow the 3 cardinal rules: always produce scv's, always keep your money low (produce units, manage your infrastructure), and never get supply blocked. From that opening build order, you should then branch out into whatever units you think you'll need depending on the match up (for TvZ, marine tank medivac will be the most standard route, while in TvP marine marauder medivac is the composition while adding in vikings and ghosts when needed; TvT is a pretty nebulous, dynamic matchup right now and so there's a lot of different routes that were just mentioned in the last couple posts that will work) Thanks for the elaborate reply! Appreciate that! Can I ask everyone how they feel about the 3Rax build? And these static builds that get propagated to death? I'm trying it out and so far it's keeping me on top of the bronze league, but I think I'm getting the hang of build/timings/constant production and I want to play with more power than a small group of marines/marauders, mainly because I want to develop a sense of dynamic play instead of blindly following a build. In short: What should be my next step? Keep up this build since me not being in Gold league means I still need to do a lot of work on this build? Or just go with something different like the 2Rax 3Bunkers FE? So far I have tried: Winging it when I was a fresh noob. Then I did a Day9 video-tutorial and stole a build with switching factory onto Rax (maybe Bomber or Select) and all that difficult stuff. This new season made me go 3Rax since it seemed easy, but it isn't. Question for have some fun: What happens if I go 6Rax? Will I get raped, or will I be able to have some laughs? What time should I push at? And does anyone have a replay? | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 06 2011 21:20 KenDM wrote: Thanks for the elaborate reply! Appreciate that! Can I ask everyone how they feel about the 3Rax build? And these static builds that get propagated to death? I personally think they are awful. My general style is TvP 1 rax inbase CC. TvZ reactor hellion expand into fast medivacs if they go roaches or just tanks if they go lings. TvT I'm experimenting so not sure. Anyway I think the best thing to do is focus on a build that allows you to get a OC early on and then play from there. Stuff like 2 rax TvP or 18 CC TvT are nice in this regard. You learn how to defend cheese while doing these things and how to transition vs various things. Overall I feel 3 rax play is just bland and relies too much on your opponent instead of yourself. I feel most all ins are like that though. They tend to focus a bit too much on your opponent countering them right than you doing something special. I don't like play that takes the game out of my hands. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On September 06 2011 21:20 KenDM wrote: Can I ask everyone how they feel about the 3Rax build? And these static builds that get propagated to death? I'm trying it out and so far it's keeping me on top of the bronze league, but I think I'm getting the hang of build/timings/constant production and I want to play with more power than a small group of marines/marauders, mainly because I want to develop a sense of dynamic play instead of blindly following a build. In short: What should be my next step? Keep up this build since me not being in Gold league means I still need to do a lot of work on this build? Or just go with something different like the 2Rax 3Bunkers FE? So far I have tried: Winging it when I was a fresh noob. Then I did a Day9 video-tutorial and stole a build with switching factory onto Rax (maybe Bomber or Select) and all that difficult stuff. This new season made me go 3Rax since it seemed easy, but it isn't. 3Rax has a lot of issues. It's a pretty common all-in, but long term it's not super viable. I'm a mid-level player and I see it sometimes in TvT, but from what I can tell, eventually Protoss forcefield micro gets good enough that you can't really kill him that early, and Zerg players start making more banelings and crawlers early if they see a 1-base stimpack rush. It's more viable on maps with more open naturals in TvP where you won't get forcefielded (like Typhon Peaks) or maps with close rush distances (Shattered Temple close-by-ground) or some moderate mixture of both (Xel'Naga Caverns comes to mind). If you really want to improve, I'd recommend eventually learning 1 build order per matchup. It's literally 3x as much work, but it'll let you start differentiating the different playstyles you need in each matchup. I'd also recommend that all three build orders include a relatively quick expansion. Here's what I'd recommend as a learning progression for you: Start off with the 2 rax 3 bunker FE. You'll need experience macroing on 2 base, which is where a lot of most games are played and end. 2 rax 3 bunker FE is easy to execute and very flexible. Once you're comfortable doing the basics of this, start thinking about a 2-base attack you want to make against your opponent. Going for just marine and marauders (maybe with medivacs) is great in almost all the matchups, although against Terran and Zerg's early splash damage units, siege tanks are good, if hard to use. Once you hit silver/gold league, you want to start thinking about customizing the 2 rax 3 bunker FE by matchup. That is to say, against Protoss maybe you want to take an earlier gas, get a quick tech lab and go for stim-- or not, depending on your style. And against terran you may end up getting a reactor instead of a 2nd rax, then a factory and a starport. These are just examples of how you may tinker with the build. Here's what I use in my matchups, and I think these builds translate down fairly well, although they can be a little tricky. In TvP, I use a variation of the  Select& in which I cut the inital reaper for a marauder and delay the 2nd rax. I do a standard concussive pressure with a little extra marine support in case it starts to win. This delays my expo a little bit relative to the main build.In TvZ, I go for a 1 rax FE, take quick gasses, and get up to factory tech. I personally play a factory-heavy style against zerg, which I find rather fun. A less micro-intensive TvZ (if marine/tank is giving you trouble) is a hellion/tank/thor style. Important if you do this style are a couple of things: have enough thors, and if he's going mutalisk, bring along scvs to keep the thors alive, or you will lose to the "magic box" in which skilled zerg players split their mutalisks to avoid splash damage. In TvT I go for a 1-base starport rush with 1 gas, then expand. I use my starport for scouting and to react to my opponent's attacks. I then make a lot of tanks because tanks are cool. Question for have some fun: What happens if I go 6Rax? Will I get raped, or will I be able to have some laughs? What time should I push at? And does anyone have a replay? 6rax all-in is effective cheese. You'll be surprised how often it wins, but it won't improve your mechanics like standard play will. If you want to have some fun with it, go ahead. I found this replay from the associated thread: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=152643 | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
As TotalBiscuit says: Fuck Muta's and all they stand for (and DT's too of course). I'm grateful for your reply, I'll remember it. I'll follow your advise and try out the 2Rax 3Bunker FE into whatever I find appropriate at that given moment. I'll learn the more elaborate builds later. Thanks again! Edit: Follow-up question: How do these builds hold up against cheese/all-ins? I can defend an early zerg speeling/roaches rush with bunkers and tanks I guess. What about a 4Gate? It's usually rather early, so I'm not sure if I can get my tanks teched fast enough...? | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On September 07 2011 03:15 KenDM wrote: Yeah I know what you mean with the magix box, I've been had by it a couple of times, and that's why I was looking into learning builds that give you more economy for defense (turrets and marines) against those muta's. As TotalBiscuit says: Fuck Muta's and all they stand for (and DT's too of course). I'm grateful for your reply, I'll remember it. I'll follow your advise and try out the 2Rax 3Bunker FE into whatever I find appropriate at that given moment. I'll learn the more elaborate builds later. Thanks again! Edit: Follow-up question: How do these builds hold up against cheese/all-ins? I can defend an early zerg speeling/roaches rush with bunkers and tanks I guess. What about a 4Gate? It's usually rather early, so I'm not sure if I can get my tanks teched fast enough...? You can hold a 4gate with 3 bunkers very easily, especially if you bring SCVs. Likewise with roach speedling and 3rax all ins.. The most important thing is to keep a cool head knowing you CAN hold, and multitask so you can continue building up your economy, as well as going up whatever tech path you were holding. | ||
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Sharor
Denmark6 Posts
 What maps should I veto for 1v1? I vetoed Nezarim Crypt because I felt the map was uncomfortable, but it might have been because of my opponent. I later vetoed Searing Crator and Abyssal Caverns because of the same reasons. But I've improved some since then I feel, and would like to hear what other people veto. My favorite is The Shattered Temple, if that helps. Edit: I'd like the arguments, as to why a map is bad / good for terran. Also if it depends on style (Bio/Mech) | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 07 2011 03:46 deeshoo wrote: You can hold a 4gate with 3 bunkers very easily, especially if you bring SCVs. Likewise with roach speedling and 3rax all ins.. The most important thing is to keep a cool head knowing you CAN hold, and multitask so you can continue building up your economy, as well as going up whatever tech path you were holding. This gives me a bit more confidence, but I'm still concerned about how viable this 2Rax3Bunker FE strat is seeing as the replays are so old they have to start up in an older version of Starcraft. If someone could just verify that this is a really safe way to go nowadays by sharing a good high level replay of this strat, it would really help me out greatly. | ||
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