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On August 31 2011 23:52 Clonze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 13:08 kofman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 31 2011 12:12 Clonze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 11:59 8D wrote:
Sry if this is a repeat question but i am having trouble with my bunker rushes in TvZ, my main problem is how many Scv's should i pull right now i take 2 but i feel thats too little and drones are able to block/kill my scvs, but im worried that if i pull more it will hinder my eco too much to make a string transtition. Does anyone know the optimaal amount of scvs in a bunker rush and how to get the most out of them? A bunker rush in TvZ that involves excessive repairing of bunkers is probably considered by most ''all-in'' and a gimmicky way to win. You will not always get a gimmicky win (any strategy that's "all -in" can be beat) one of the best bunker pressures you can do that isn't all in is with 1 scv, so that he pulls ~2drones. you follow that up with 1rax and 3 marines(13 refinery) and then reactor on the rax and a factory(both should be built at the same time). the reason why this is really good is because the zerg loses mining time and you can just cancel the bunker for 75minerals. you also might be able to pick a drone or two off with the 1-3 marine follow up. and it forces lings to be made, if you get the bunker completed it forces a lot of lings! when the zerg makes a bunch of lings... your reactor hellions will do tons of damage! this build also allows you to do a pretty quick expansion. (expo time comes around the time factory finishes) This guy has no idea what he is talking about. Bunker rushing is in no ways "cheese", "gimmicky", or "all-in". I would say pull about 3 scvs if your doing the 12/14, and up to 5 if your doing the 11/11. Try to start bunkers in multiple locations at the same time so that its hard for the zerg to kill all of the bunkers that are going up. While doing this, make an expansion. The guy who I quoted is saying complete nonsense, don't listen to him. To Clonze: How are you supposed to get 13 refinery when 2 raxing? What you are describing is a reactor hellion expand, not a 2-rax... Learn to read, please. A 1-rax bunker pressure is rediculous, there is no way any zerg would let the bunker finish, plus you need the minerals from the bunker to make hellions and the CC if you are going reactor hellion expand. And also, a 2-rax is not in any way all-in, thats why its called a 2-rax expand, because you get an expansion while you are doing the pressure. Please don't quote people who are trying to help, then tell them that they're clueless. I'm well more accomplished than you. Great flame though, you did it kofman. and you're right, it is a hellion expand. not once did i mention 2 rax but i guess it could have been kinda unclear. and the idea of this is to not rely on a bunker finished, so what are you going to say next? from experience watching and better players, 2 rax is NOT a solid build and can be easily defeated, leaving the T at a huge disadvantage. I'd give you some quotes but I don't want to give the effort to shut down a simple minded TL flamer who thinks that calling people clueless makes him look good/feel good/ or whatever it is you are getting from this. Basically many pros have said they regret using 2rax expand build in many Bo#s because it was defended correctly and they were put so far behind that they couldn't recover. 1rax bunker pressure is not ridiculous because the bunker is NOT MEANT TO COMPLETE. The zerg gets put a tiny bit behind by reacting to the bunker. This is why many pros generally stay away from the strategy forum, because scrubs like kofman are here.
First of all, this guy asked about 2-raxing, and you go and tell him to reactor hellion expand. He's talking about the 2rax, not the reactor hellion expand.
Second of all, the 2 rax is not a solid build order? LOL, you are so clueless its ridiculous. Just because you watch pros doesn't mean you know anything about the game, please don't give advice if your bronze. Please, tell me where pros say the 2rax is not a solid BO, because it is probably the most solid BO possible in TvZ.
People like you ruin TL, giving out stupid advice when they are only bronze and think they are good because they watch occasional pro games. Your full of bullshit, you say you're "well more accomplished" than me, and don't even say from what. Please, keep your bronze league opinions to yourself.
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On September 03 2011 21:04 luzu wrote:
Hello , lately I have been struggling with the TvP matchup, where the protoss goes for Zealot/Archon/Ht in the midgame and in the lategame Zealot/archon/HT + Colosus.
My standard opening is 1 rax expand into MMM-G, by any direct attack my army gets demolished. Even if i Emped 80% of the HT's and archon army, I still get demolished while studderstepping. Is there a specific buildorder needed to beat this combo?
If you EMP the toss's entire army, and still lose, I think its more to do with your macro. If you get nice EMPs off, you should be able to win or at least trade with a protoss's army.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 04 2011 03:05 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 23:52 Clonze wrote:On August 31 2011 13:08 kofman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 31 2011 12:12 Clonze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 11:59 8D wrote:
Sry if this is a repeat question but i am having trouble with my bunker rushes in TvZ, my main problem is how many Scv's should i pull right now i take 2 but i feel thats too little and drones are able to block/kill my scvs, but im worried that if i pull more it will hinder my eco too much to make a string transtition. Does anyone know the optimaal amount of scvs in a bunker rush and how to get the most out of them? A bunker rush in TvZ that involves excessive repairing of bunkers is probably considered by most ''all-in'' and a gimmicky way to win. You will not always get a gimmicky win (any strategy that's "all -in" can be beat) one of the best bunker pressures you can do that isn't all in is with 1 scv, so that he pulls ~2drones. you follow that up with 1rax and 3 marines(13 refinery) and then reactor on the rax and a factory(both should be built at the same time). the reason why this is really good is because the zerg loses mining time and you can just cancel the bunker for 75minerals. you also might be able to pick a drone or two off with the 1-3 marine follow up. and it forces lings to be made, if you get the bunker completed it forces a lot of lings! when the zerg makes a bunch of lings... your reactor hellions will do tons of damage! this build also allows you to do a pretty quick expansion. (expo time comes around the time factory finishes) This guy has no idea what he is talking about. Bunker rushing is in no ways "cheese", "gimmicky", or "all-in". I would say pull about 3 scvs if your doing the 12/14, and up to 5 if your doing the 11/11. Try to start bunkers in multiple locations at the same time so that its hard for the zerg to kill all of the bunkers that are going up. While doing this, make an expansion. The guy who I quoted is saying complete nonsense, don't listen to him. To Clonze: How are you supposed to get 13 refinery when 2 raxing? What you are describing is a reactor hellion expand, not a 2-rax... Learn to read, please. A 1-rax bunker pressure is rediculous, there is no way any zerg would let the bunker finish, plus you need the minerals from the bunker to make hellions and the CC if you are going reactor hellion expand. And also, a 2-rax is not in any way all-in, thats why its called a 2-rax expand, because you get an expansion while you are doing the pressure. Please don't quote people who are trying to help, then tell them that they're clueless. I'm well more accomplished than you. Great flame though, you did it kofman. and you're right, it is a hellion expand. not once did i mention 2 rax but i guess it could have been kinda unclear. and the idea of this is to not rely on a bunker finished, so what are you going to say next? from experience watching and better players, 2 rax is NOT a solid build and can be easily defeated, leaving the T at a huge disadvantage. I'd give you some quotes but I don't want to give the effort to shut down a simple minded TL flamer who thinks that calling people clueless makes him look good/feel good/ or whatever it is you are getting from this. Basically many pros have said they regret using 2rax expand build in many Bo#s because it was defended correctly and they were put so far behind that they couldn't recover. 1rax bunker pressure is not ridiculous because the bunker is NOT MEANT TO COMPLETE. The zerg gets put a tiny bit behind by reacting to the bunker. This is why many pros generally stay away from the strategy forum, because scrubs like kofman are here. First of all, this guy asked about 2-raxing, and you go and tell him to reactor hellion expand. He's talking about the 2rax, not the reactor hellion expand. Second of all, the 2 rax is not a solid build order? LOL, you are so clueless its ridiculous. Just because you watch pros doesn't mean you know anything about the game, please don't give advice if your bronze. Please, tell me where pros say the 2rax is not a solid BO, because it is probably the most solid BO possible in TvZ. People like you ruin TL, giving out stupid advice when they are only bronze and think they are good because they watch occasional pro games. Your full of bullshit, you say you're "well more accomplished" than me, and don't even say from what. Please, keep your bronze league opinions to yourself.
everybody needs to chill out, holy crap
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Hey everybody, i was thinking of learning the 1-1-1 build, since i hear from a lot of people that it is one of the most basic, if not the most. I'm looking at the build on this site and this just don't add up, when i try and execute it myself. I'm not sure if the build is out dated because of a new patch that has come out, or I'm just doing it wrong. I'm going to tell you the way i do the one one one build that work's for me. i go...
10 supply depot
12 rax
13 refinery
15 OC, supply depot, 2nd refinery
16 fact
20 starport
that's how i do it now, i'm just trying to get down to the very basic's. i do this build while constantly building scv's for a steady economy while not building any army unit's until i have figured out which and how many i need. i think it's good as a foundation, now i just have to scout and figure out which tech path to go into. the problem i had before with the 1 1 1 build on this site is that it told me to train 4 marine's in between the production building's, but when i would do that, the factory, starport etc never really finished on the supply the build order was written. sorry if i sound like a bummer, but i'm just trying to figure this game out and it's mechanic's. there's so much to it. i understand macro and micro and am helping myself with them, it's just the build order's i don't really understand. what i really want to learn is how to play the game by decision and understanding where i don't have to count on knowing if i'm in the right supply and just knowing what to build or train because i know i can afford to do that. i just need some tip's or something. peace.
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On September 03 2011 18:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 12:27 Noocta wrote:
I'm in a bit of a loss right now in TvT.
I'm kinda offracing T from Z during this season to see if i can maintain, but i don't understand shit at TvT. ( Bu i can make hellions, so i maintain my rating x) )
When you're opening with a fast blueflame hellion drop, how do you deal with fast siege tank pushes ?
Last time i had that scenario, his push get to my base right as my medivac was at his. But even if i kill a lot of scv, i feel like the fact that my tanks are so late make me lose too much stuff. :/
Any tips ? The trick is, while you wait for blue flame and your medivac, be active with your first hellion or two, taking xel nagas and seeing if he pushes out. Have your medivac pick up the hellions in your base, then rendez-vous with your other dudes on the (controlled-by-you) map and ferry them into his base. If you see a tank push coming, if you think you can harass and keep him at home, do it. If he's already on his way and won't turn around, swap your factory and your starport and make a banshee. Use your hellions to kill his marines, or at least reduce them to small numbers, so your banshee can force his push to retreat. This will buy you time to transition to whatever you'd like.
Damn, Thank you! Didn't expect such a detailled anwser.
I didn't though of banshee before, i'm way underusing them for now i guess. ( since you don't see them often in TvZ, i tend to forget they exist ~~ )
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How many Reactored barracks should I have on three bases in TvZ?
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What are average times to put down my first and second command center (expansion and third base) and take them?
Is it advisable to use 2 fact tanks (occasionally producing thors) off 2 base?
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On September 04 2011 11:11 Tsuycc wrote:
How many Reactored barracks should I have on three bases in TvZ?
I personally try to get up to 12 barracks (so 6 reactored) on 3 base, 3 factories, and a reactored starport. Your mileage will vary though.
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I cant seem to find a solid TVT mech opener [just got the game but im diamond, so im ignorant of many basic strategical things] which doesnt like, outright die to two rax marauder. Whats a safe and standard opener into mech, and what am I suppose to do against such 2rax builds?
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On September 04 2011 15:36 lizzard_warish wrote:
I cant seem to find a solid TVT mech opener [just got the game but im diamond, so im ignorant of many basic strategical things] which doesnt like, outright die to two rax marauder. Whats a safe and standard opener into mech, and what am I suppose to do against such 2rax builds?
Well, First off, you need to know that a 2rax marauder is coming... and when you do, you immediately make a siege tank, and a bunker and maybe mass repair , try to keep your tank(s) some what close to away from the bunker because the marauders could snipe it and its almost gg at that point.
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I got demoted back to Plat simply due to losing soo many TvZs. I just don't know what my game plan should be on larger maps. How do I engage? When do I push? Where is the location of engagement? On a map like metal, I can park near third and try to set it up from there. The most I can do on Taldarim is elevator into natural, but still it fails. On Antiga, it still sometimes works, but getting there is the problem. I have no clue on how to engage recently and lost so many games due to that, I need help!
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On September 04 2011 17:27 Bleak wrote:
I got demoted back to Plat simply due to losing soo many TvZs. I just don't know what my game plan should be on larger maps. How do I engage? When do I push? Where is the location of engagement? On a map like metal, I can park near third and try to set it up from there. The most I can do on Taldarim is elevator into natural, but still it fails. On Antiga, it still sometimes works, but getting there is the problem. I have no clue on how to engage recently and lost so many games due to that, I need help!
On Larger maps I just do the same thing on normal maps, you're trying to make it seem like you have to something absolutely do something special in Large maps like that, or maybe GSL has had a influence on you're play you can just go for a normal marine/tank push or mech depending on which style you like you should on be concerned about doing certain strategies on certain maps when you're mid-high masters, because most of all your mechanics are the one that need refinement..
next game on a large map, try going for a marine/tank push, while dropping 
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Hi again,
I am now wondering about tvt, I'm a noob so I'm sorry if this question is really stupid. What is the 'standard unit' composition i should be aiming for in tvt during the mid game/ late game? Like how against zerg, the standard composition would be marine, tank, medivac.
Thanks for any help :D.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On September 04 2011 21:27 MarbleGuest wrote:
Hi again,
I am now wondering about tvt, I'm a noob so I'm sorry if this question is really stupid. What is the 'standard unit' composition i should be aiming for in tvt during the mid game/ late game? Like how against zerg, the standard composition would be marine, tank, medivac.
Thanks for any help :D.
There are several schools of thought on this. The general consensus is that you want a lot of tanks. You also want to make vikings so that your tanks can see far enough to shoot, and to kill your opponent's vikings, as well as air units he might use to attack / circumvent your tanks, such as medivacs, banshees, BCs, and other vikings. lastly, you need to dump minerals. People like to dump minerals into:
Marines/Marauders: can shoot up, can be more marauder-focused to defend from hellions, synergize well with medivacs
Hellions: strong against marines, strong against workers, bad against marauders and buildings, good against marines. can't shoot up, so you need to rely on vikings and thors for AA
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thx! Im new to team liquid so i don't know how to reply :'(.
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i'm new to, someone please reply! 
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O September 05 2011 00:05 MarbleGuest wrote:
thx! Im new to team liquid so i don't know how to reply :'(.
Just click the "Quote" button on the top right of the post that you want to reply to.
Welcome to TL
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On September 04 2011 11:41 .Johnny wrote:
What are average times to put down my first and second command center (expansion and third base) and take them?
Is it advisable to use 2 fact tanks (occasionally producing thors) off 2 base?
Depends of what opening you are using. rule of thumb is -> float your expo when you are confident you can defend it.
In TvP it's common to go 1rax fe and build your expansion directly in your natural. Usual followup after 1 rax cc is putting down 2 additional rax and then take your gases, and with that infrastructure + bunker at front you're generally able to fend of early protoss agression provided you scout and pull scvs to repair in time.
In TvZ you generally float your first expansion as soon as it is done. You can usually even build it in you natural, but it's better to make it in your main, cause it's harder to scout then, and you want to deny zerg as much information as you can.
On you second question - depends on what else you're producting but generally having 4 gases can support producing tanks of 2 factories.
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On September 04 2011 02:24 PoopLord wrote:
Does anybody have a safe mech TvT build that lets you get up a semi-quick expo so I can practice macro game?
I second this question. I've checked Liquipedia and recent strategy forum threads, and I haven't found much. I've been muddling through and doing ok, but my other two matchups have improved enough that TvT is now by far my weakest, and I think it's largely because I don't have a precise build that I'm doing. I'm not looking for anything fancy, just a "standard" opening for heading towards a macro mech game.
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On September 05 2011 06:40 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 02:24 PoopLord wrote:
Does anybody have a safe mech TvT build that lets you get up a semi-quick expo so I can practice macro game? I second this question. I've checked Liquipedia and recent strategy forum threads, and I haven't found much. I've been muddling through and doing ok, but my other two matchups have improved enough that TvT is now by far my weakest, and I think it's largely because I don't have a precise build that I'm doing. I'm not looking for anything fancy, just a "standard" opening for heading towards a macro mech game.
I third this. Having looked through wherever i could, ive found no standard opener.
Im TvZ and TvP i know exactly what im doing until im taking a 3rd. I have a plan and it helps so much that i dont have to think about macro. Just do it.
TvT i stat off thinking. Hmm i should make tanks. I wonder if im getting cheesed. Its TvT so probably. I wonder if its banshees or BFH since ive scouted double gas. Etc etc
Since i dont know BO, i dont know what scouting means either.
Also is 6 min the standard scan timing?
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EPT
