The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 16

On August 30 2011 09:32 Haegr9599 wrote:
I am pretty lost in TvT at a diamond level. Just looking for a standard build with transitions that can hold (most) all-ins. Honestly, i just dont have a gameplan and am just looking for one

**not a big fan of mech

On August 31 2011 06:53 radiantshadow92 wrote:
Hey i just wanted to ask how many hellions you guys think are best in tvz from the reactor hellion expand. I like 4 the best but i feel like it slows down by rax but it keeps be safe. What do you guys think is the best number?

On August 30 2011 09:36 Blazinghand wrote:
A 1-gas 1/1/1 4 red flame hellion drop expo is what I do in TvT, and it works pretty well.

On August 31 2011 06:53 radiantshadow92 wrote:
Hey i just wanted to ask how many hellions you guys think are best in tvz from the reactor hellion expand. I like 4 the best but i feel like it slows down by rax but it keeps be safe. What do you guys think is the best number?

On August 31 2011 11:59 8D wrote:
Sry if this is a repeat question but i am having trouble with my bunker rushes in TvZ, my main problem is how many Scv's should i pull right now i take 2 but i feel thats too little and drones are able to block/kill my scvs, but im worried that if i pull more it will hinder my eco too much to make a string transtition. Does anyone know the optimaal amount of scvs in a bunker rush and how to get the most out of them?

On August 31 2011 12:12 Clonze wrote:


A bunker rush in TvZ that involves excessive repairing of bunkers is probably considered by most ''all-in'' and a gimmicky way to win. You will not always get a gimmicky win (any strategy that's "all -in" can be beat)
one of the best bunker pressures you can do that isn't all in is with 1 scv, so that he pulls ~2drones. you follow that up with 1rax and 3 marines(13 refinery) and then reactor on the rax and a factory(both should be built at the same time).

the reason why this is really good is because the zerg loses mining time and you can just cancel the bunker for 75minerals. you also might be able to pick a drone or two off with the 1-3 marine follow up. and it forces lings to be made, if you get the bunker completed it forces a lot of lings!

when the zerg makes a bunch of lings... your reactor hellions will do tons of damage! this build also allows you to do a pretty quick expansion. (expo time comes around the time factory finishes)

On August 31 2011 13:08 kofman wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
This guy has no idea what he is talking about. Bunker rushing is in no ways "cheese", "gimmicky", or "all-in". I would say pull about 3 scvs if your doing the 12/14, and up to 5 if your doing the 11/11. Try to start bunkers in multiple locations at the same time so that its hard for the zerg to kill all of the bunkers that are going up. While doing this, make an expansion. The guy who I quoted is saying complete nonsense, don't listen to him.

To Clonze: How are you supposed to get 13 refinery when 2 raxing? What you are describing is a reactor hellion expand, not a 2-rax... Learn to read, please. A 1-rax bunker pressure is rediculous, there is no way any zerg would let the bunker finish, plus you need the minerals from the bunker to make hellions and the CC if you are going reactor hellion expand. And also, a 2-rax is not in any way all-in, thats why its called a 2-rax expand, because you get an expansion while you are doing the pressure.

On August 31 2011 23:52 Clonze wrote:


Please don't quote people who are trying to help, then tell them that they're clueless. I'm well more accomplished than you. Great flame though, you did it kofman.

and you're right, it is a hellion expand. not once did i mention 2 rax but i guess it could have been kinda unclear. and the idea of this is to not rely on a bunker finished, so what are you going to say next?
from experience watching and better players, 2 rax is NOT a solid build and can be easily defeated, leaving the T at a huge disadvantage. I'd give you some quotes but I don't want to give the effort to shut down a simple minded TL flamer who thinks that calling people clueless makes him look good/feel good/ or whatever it is you are getting from this.

Basically many pros have said they regret using 2rax expand build in many Bo#s because it was defended correctly and they were put so far behind that they couldn't recover. 1rax bunker pressure is not ridiculous because the bunker is NOT MEANT TO COMPLETE. The zerg gets put a tiny bit behind by reacting to the bunker.

This is why many pros generally stay away from the strategy forum, because scrubs like kofman are here.

On September 01 2011 00:11 Schamus wrote:



Actually, both sides have merit. And as for your point that they "put in a tiny bit" then you may have fallen into the trap I did when I first tried it. If you position correctly and you ALSO react correctly you should be able to force an absurd amount of spines and zergling that delay any kind of immediate droning...and if they do immediately drone you have the advantage in army size (that is, if you go for 3rd rax after the expo is started). The trick at this point is to attack at the right time, and deny them the ability to see your re-push. You need to send 3 marines to kill a xelnaga or walk around. I typically find 10 marines to be sufficient at this point.

Remember, this is not to kill the zerg, but delay tech and deny drones. Many terrans foolishly lose all their forces thinking they can trade with zerg, and its just not true, because they can rebuild quicker, and they get the round of drones in between, thus its best to scoot and shoot their drones and only fully engage when you can absolutely demolish their force.

On September 01 2011 01:14 KingOfAmerica wrote:
1 Rax Reaper Expand question:

My general TvZ is 2 Reapers for pressure / scouting, expand, then 3 barracks, factory, starport. Aiming for a push around 10:30 with stim marines, 2-3 tanks, a medivac +1 weapons.

I'm having two problems with this: 1) After my reaper harass is done (around 6 min or so I just let them stay on towers / scout expands), I dont put pressure on till the push and he drones hard 2) Lair tech is out by 10:30 as a result and makes my push harder.

Anyone have any successful earlier timings I could hit off the same 1 rax reaper expand foundation? Something in the 9:00 range or so?

try to base your timing push off of when they get their 3rd base. your goal is to stop the zerg from getting a third while you get your third.

On August 31 2011 06:55 Numy wrote:


Find that a bit coin flippy. Dunno, I like to just get blue flames and banshee/viking out with expo going while being defensive. Feels safer

On August 31 2011 10:42 kofman wrote:


I personally get only 2 hellions when reactor hellion expanding, because I feel that getting more than 2 is unneccasary because the zerg will most likely have enough spine crawlers and queens to defend any number of hellions. The only time I well get 4 is on xelnaga, when the expo is hard to defend. With 2 hellions, you keep the zerg guessing and maybe force him to make roaches or extra spines which would be neccesary against more hellions. The 2 hellions force a big investment from zerg, and can deny creep tumors/control the watchtowers well enough. In addition, if your opponent if doing the sheth build against you and you make 4 hellions, then if you don't have a bunker, you basically lose the game straight up. However, if you only make 2 hellions and make a tank right after, the tank will be there in time to defend against the 7 roaches that will be coming, without the need for a bunker.

My build is that I pump 2 hellions from the reactored factory, and starting a tech lab on the rax that just built the reactor ASAP. I then switch the factory onto the tech lab that the rax built and switch the rax onto the reactor that the factory had. I then pump nonstop marines and tanks, take the 2nd gas, and add another rax and make a techlab on it and start shields ASAP. Make a 3rd rax without addons for extra marines, then make a strong 9 minute push to kill any 3rd from the zerg and possibly kill him straight up. For this push, you should have about 15 marines and 3 tanks, with shields done and stim started. Make an engy bay for upgrades, and see if zerg is going mutas (most likely) or infestors (rare). If they go mutas, then add on extra rax for more marines and make sure to make marines nonstop out of your existing rax. If they go infestors, then you don't have to go as hard on the marines production but make an extra factory and make extra tanks. Try to seige up the zerg's natural, while expanding yourself.

High masters terran.

On September 02 2011 14:21 MarbleGuest wrote:
Hi a mid gold noob And I was having some trouble in TvZ. When are some timing (using in game timer) windows to apply pressure to the zerg when they FE hatch after spawning pool?

How much should i push out/ harass with each time I apply pressure?

Thanks :D

On September 01 2011 14:37 Blazinghand wrote:


It would be coin-flippy if I were rushing for blue flame hellions and drops on 1 base-- but I think that the safest TvT that doesn't have to all-in is probably a 1-gas 1-1-1 into expo.

Taking a 2nd gas before expo means your CC will be delayed a pretty large amount, so that's out of the question-- but a 1-1-1 like this lets you get the tech necessary to defend whatever harass your opponent does, and the scouting information necessarily to defend whatever all-in, and by not taking a 2nd gas, you trade the opportunity for cloak banshees, or blue flame drop, for an expo that keeps you in the game economically.

This guy DID note that he wanted a safe build. This is only coin-flippy insofar as if you lose your drop you're bonerized pretty hard. On the other hand, the drop is as much a scouting mechanism as it is a harass (4 red flame hellions won't deal that much damage). Assuming you're conservative with your committal, you can roast a marine and an scv or 2 and get out, ideally not losing any of your units, but getting a good scout off.

For someone who's struggling in TvT, this gives you access to quick hellions and viking tech for dealing with classic harasses, as well as the ability to begin tank production fairly easily when the time comes.