Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
On August 23 2011 03:29 Carrera26 wrote: I use Halby's Uber Ups build for TvZ
(mass upgraded marine medivac)
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
There's only two reasons you'd want to wall off your main in TvP: if he's rushing DTs, or if there's some blink stalker play going on.
If you DO wall off (you see 2 gas and no sentries, and think it's DTs) and it turns out to be void rays, and he's charging on one of your depots, sometimes you can kill your own depot before he gets fully charged. This is pretty important, and is mostly doable if he's shooting it a little with his stalkers, too, or if it had some damage to begin with.
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
There's only two reasons you'd want to wall off your main in TvP: if he's rushing DTs, or if there's some blink stalker play going on.
If you DO wall off (you see 2 gas and no sentries, and think it's DTs) and it turns out to be void rays, and he's charging on one of your depots, sometimes you can kill your own depot before he gets fully charged. This is pretty important, and is mostly doable if he's shooting it a little with his stalkers, too, or if it had some damage to begin with.
That makes a lot of sense. Although I don't see how walling off your ramp vs blink stalker play is important if you on one base. I know on 2 base all that stuff is important but on one base?
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
There's only two reasons you'd want to wall off your main in TvP: if he's rushing DTs, or if there's some blink stalker play going on.
If you DO wall off (you see 2 gas and no sentries, and think it's DTs) and it turns out to be void rays, and he's charging on one of your depots, sometimes you can kill your own depot before he gets fully charged. This is pretty important, and is mostly doable if he's shooting it a little with his stalkers, too, or if it had some damage to begin with.
That makes a lot of sense. Although I don't see how walling off your ramp vs blink stalker play is important if you on one base. I know on 2 base all that stuff is important but on one base?
Walling ramp vs blink stalkers is good because it won't cost you much, and it increases the chance of splitting his blink stalkers as he tries to get into your base and trapping maybe 1 or 2 just outside the wall. Really, though, 1 base blink stalker allin are just a huge pain ._.
The real fear for me is that eventually protoss realize that if they blink into my main, using a warp prism to spot, and start making sentries and FFing my ramp, i'm super bonerized.
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
There's only two reasons you'd want to wall off your main in TvP: if he's rushing DTs, or if there's some blink stalker play going on.
If you DO wall off (you see 2 gas and no sentries, and think it's DTs) and it turns out to be void rays, and he's charging on one of your depots, sometimes you can kill your own depot before he gets fully charged. This is pretty important, and is mostly doable if he's shooting it a little with his stalkers, too, or if it had some damage to begin with.
That makes a lot of sense. Although I don't see how walling off your ramp vs blink stalker play is important if you on one base. I know on 2 base all that stuff is important but on one base?
Walling ramp vs blink stalkers is good because it won't cost you much, and it increases the chance of splitting his blink stalkers as he tries to get into your base and trapping maybe 1 or 2 just outside the wall. Really, though, 1 base blink stalker allin are just a huge pain ._.
The real fear for me is that eventually protoss realize that if they blink into my main, using a warp prism to spot, and start making sentries and FFing my ramp, i'm super bonerized.
Meh I know don't. I feel like walling so early on just doesn't seem worth it. If they going 1 base blink they most likely going to try and get obs to blink main anyway so bunkers in base seems far more viable than hoping to catch a few miscontrolled stalkers on the ramp. Just feel like it's too big a liability early on. Later it seems like a smart choice though.
Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings.
I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers.
Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful.
Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution?
Thanks
Only way I can imagine to hold 50+ banelings with just marine medivac is a lot of bunkers with buildings infront :X
Why not build like a single banshee to kill a bunch of them safely?
I don't know, going tankless and (presumably) hellionless against zerg seems a little strange. You can still double engineering bay while making medivacs and tanks...
I really like this style of TvZ, but are there any notable disadvantages compared to marine/tank?
You have to be extremely focused and it's very multitasking dependent. You can't lose momentum going tankless. If you have a bad engagement and lose a lot without killing a lot then you basically out of the game. Also you have to keep the pressure on. Keep building on your momentum until it eventually wins you the game. Most people don't have the mechanics do really pull this off but if you do or if you want to improve your mechanics it's a great way.
Generally I go with hellion marine mara medivac early on to ramp up pressure then grab an early third/fourth while transitioning to tanks but it's a bit hard sometimes. I find pure marine even harder to do :<
On August 27 2011 03:05 xTrim wrote:
On August 26 2011 23:23 Gyro_SC2 wrote: In TvP , if you wall and the protoss do a void ray opening. How do you survive ? Are you forced the give your supply?
walling off with a barracks is never good vs toss... ur better off walling with 2 supplies and a bunker
Even that can be risky. I'm not really sure what's best. I'm starting to think not walling off initially but adding it later so you can stop blink stalker runbys when you take your nat seems like a good idea but don't really quote me on that. Anyway what you can do is start your wall off with rax/supply to deny scout then lift off and put down a bunker in its place.
walling off is really good due to the fact that some nasty close positions chrono zealot can ruin your day
I don't really design strats for terrible maps/positions that shouldn't be allowed in the first place . He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be.
There's only two reasons you'd want to wall off your main in TvP: if he's rushing DTs, or if there's some blink stalker play going on.
If you DO wall off (you see 2 gas and no sentries, and think it's DTs) and it turns out to be void rays, and he's charging on one of your depots, sometimes you can kill your own depot before he gets fully charged. This is pretty important, and is mostly doable if he's shooting it a little with his stalkers, too, or if it had some damage to begin with.
That makes a lot of sense. Although I don't see how walling off your ramp vs blink stalker play is important if you on one base. I know on 2 base all that stuff is important but on one base?
Walling ramp vs blink stalkers is good because it won't cost you much, and it increases the chance of splitting his blink stalkers as he tries to get into your base and trapping maybe 1 or 2 just outside the wall. Really, though, 1 base blink stalker allin are just a huge pain ._.
The real fear for me is that eventually protoss realize that if they blink into my main, using a warp prism to spot, and start making sentries and FFing my ramp, i'm super bonerized.
Meh I know don't. I feel like walling so early on just doesn't seem worth it. If they going 1 base blink they most likely going to try and get obs to blink main anyway so bunkers in base seems far more viable than hoping to catch a few miscontrolled stalkers on the ramp. Just feel like it's too big a liability early on. Later it seems like a smart choice though.
I mean, there's also my all-consuming fear of DT rush that motivates me. It's hard to differentiate DT rush from 3 gate blink stalker rush (hidden obs? no hidden obs?) because they don't diverge until the Twilight Council finishes.
EDIT: I also have like, a 20% win rate against an opponent who ever gets DTs ._.
EDIT: I also have like, a 20% win rate against an opponent who ever gets DTs ._.
1 base -> build turret at like 7 minutes, 2 base -> 8 to 9 minutes i believe...
What ever it is, if you macro properly and do not suffer economic damage, the act of saving energy for scans do not hurt your chances of winning that much since DTs are such a large investment. What i do is usually see dts -> save scans (4 is about a good number, as after u get to him, ull have around 6). Then attack with a strong bio ball. The only compo that should give u trouble is archon zeals, but if you practice your micro well or have ghosts, then you will just steam roll his army.
I play a 2 rax expo in tvp and drop my expo at 6 min, Generally up and running by 9 as i make it in base. On a side note i find it annoying that a T expo takes a full minute longer to go up than a P one on maps where you cant build it at your nat due to losing to 3 gate pressure etc.
I am for 35 at 10 min and often get that, rarely more. Constsnt produciton off 1 base i should have 41 by 10 min so i dont mind missing that few to get expo and stim/conc etc.
Tbh i think ive answered my own question lol. 35 is fine as with mules on 2 bases that will never put me behind
Wait why are you fine with being 6 scvs behind where you could be? Unless you're specifically cutting them to get out rax or units you should be constant right?
On August 27 2011 05:56 Squigly wrote: How many SCVs is good at 10 min?
I play a 2 rax expo in tvp and drop my expo at 6 min, Generally up and running by 9 as i make it in base. On a side note i find it annoying that a T expo takes a full minute longer to go up than a P one on maps where you cant build it at your nat due to losing to 3 gate pressure etc.
I am for 35 at 10 min and often get that, rarely more. Constsnt produciton off 1 base i should have 41 by 10 min so i dont mind missing that few to get expo and stim/conc etc.
Tbh i think ive answered my own question lol. 35 is fine as with mules on 2 bases that will never put me behind
If you start your expo at 6:00, by 10:00 you should have 48 scvs, since the 2nd CC will make a few also by then.
Try to have constant scv production; 35 and 48 are very different numbers.
On August 27 2011 05:56 Squigly wrote: How many SCVs is good at 10 min?
I play a 2 rax expo in tvp and drop my expo at 6 min, Generally up and running by 9 as i make it in base. On a side note i find it annoying that a T expo takes a full minute longer to go up than a P one on maps where you cant build it at your nat due to losing to 3 gate pressure etc.
I am for 35 at 10 min and often get that, rarely more. Constsnt produciton off 1 base i should have 41 by 10 min so i dont mind missing that few to get expo and stim/conc etc.
Tbh i think ive answered my own question lol. 35 is fine as with mules on 2 bases that will never put me behind
If you start your expo at 6:00, by 10:00 you should have 48 scvs, since the 2nd CC will make a few also by then.
Try to have constant scv production; 35 and 48 are very different numbers.
I appreciate the help, but your math is incorrect. No possible way you could have more than 45, and its not very feasible to have more than 40 tbh. 40 would be awesome SC production, barely missing any time at all apart from the needed couple for stim etc.
35 includes missing the odd 1 or 2 due to micro, and 1 SB. I think getting supply blocked once in the first 100 supply is fine. I tsnot optimal, but an 80 supply SB really isnt that bad.
On August 27 2011 07:09 ComBro1 wrote: Wait why are you fine with being 6 scvs behind where you could be? Unless you're specifically cutting them to get out rax or units you should be constant right?
Sorry for the double post, but i cut 1 or 2 to get good early pressure with conc then stim. Im fine being 3 or 4 behind perfect SCV production. Thats such a small issue compared to other things like taking a 3rd on time etc. It wont really effect any sort of disadvantage.
On August 27 2011 05:56 Squigly wrote: How many SCVs is good at 10 min?
I play a 2 rax expo in tvp and drop my expo at 6 min, Generally up and running by 9 as i make it in base. On a side note i find it annoying that a T expo takes a full minute longer to go up than a P one on maps where you cant build it at your nat due to losing to 3 gate pressure etc.
I am for 35 at 10 min and often get that, rarely more. Constsnt produciton off 1 base i should have 41 by 10 min so i dont mind missing that few to get expo and stim/conc etc.
Tbh i think ive answered my own question lol. 35 is fine as with mules on 2 bases that will never put me behind
If you start your expo at 6:00, by 10:00 you should have 48 scvs, since the 2nd CC will make a few also by then.
Try to have constant scv production; 35 and 48 are very different numbers.
I appreciate the help, but your math is incorrect. No possible way you could have more than 45, and its not very feasible to have more than 40 tbh. 40 would be awesome SC production, barely missing any time at all apart from the needed couple for stim etc.
35 includes missing the odd 1 or 2 due to micro, and 1 SB. I think getting supply blocked once in the first 100 supply is fine. I tsnot optimal, but an 80 supply SB really isnt that bad.
You are right insofar as my math is incorrect. Starting an expo at 6:00, it's not 48 that you can get, but rather, 45 (because you cut a few scvs while making the orbital).
On the other hand, you say that it's not very feasible to have more than 40... but on my first try I easily got 45. 40 is shitty scv production because you cut 5 scvs for no reason. 35 scvs, your production target, is not good because you cut 1 scv every minute, or 1 in 4 scvs.
So... whereas I was off by 3 scvs in my estimation due to forgetting about the 2nd orbital time... you're still off by 10 scvs. this is roughly 20% of your economy. Are you really OK with that?
Getting supply blocked once is NEVER ok in your first 100 supply.
Quick 2 rax (TvZ) question: how do you know when it's time to end the aggression and go home?
I guess it's very risky to continue the aggression if you lose your scvs building the bunker, or if there's a spine crawler going down, but I'd like some general 2raxing advice.
On August 28 2011 02:00 Maxie wrote: Quick 2 rax (TvZ) question: how do you know when it's time to end the aggression and go home?
I guess it's very risky to continue the aggression if you lose your scvs building the bunker, or if there's a spine crawler going down, but I'd like some general 2raxing advice.
Just go out and play it. You will die a few times and learn or you will pull back too early and lose later coz of it. Either way you gaining the experience you need. No real way to figure out gamesense without playing. Noone can tell you how to judge a game while you playing.
On August 28 2011 02:00 Maxie wrote: Quick 2 rax (TvZ) question: how do you know when it's time to end the aggression and go home?
I guess it's very risky to continue the aggression if you lose your scvs building the bunker, or if there's a spine crawler going down, but I'd like some general 2raxing advice.
Same here; what should I do especially if they go for blings? I usually evacuate once I see them and try to fortify my natural, but usually too slow - end up having lings/blings loose in my main once they bust my defenses.
On August 27 2011 05:56 Squigly wrote: How many SCVs is good at 10 min?
I play a 2 rax expo in tvp and drop my expo at 6 min, Generally up and running by 9 as i make it in base. On a side note i find it annoying that a T expo takes a full minute longer to go up than a P one on maps where you cant build it at your nat due to losing to 3 gate pressure etc.
I am for 35 at 10 min and often get that, rarely more. Constsnt produciton off 1 base i should have 41 by 10 min so i dont mind missing that few to get expo and stim/conc etc.
Tbh i think ive answered my own question lol. 35 is fine as with mules on 2 bases that will never put me behind
If you start your expo at 6:00, by 10:00 you should have 48 scvs, since the 2nd CC will make a few also by then.
Try to have constant scv production; 35 and 48 are very different numbers.
I appreciate the help, but your math is incorrect. No possible way you could have more than 45, and its not very feasible to have more than 40 tbh. 40 would be awesome SC production, barely missing any time at all apart from the needed couple for stim etc.
35 includes missing the odd 1 or 2 due to micro, and 1 SB. I think getting supply blocked once in the first 100 supply is fine. I tsnot optimal, but an 80 supply SB really isnt that bad.
You are right insofar as my math is incorrect. Starting an expo at 6:00, it's not 48 that you can get, but rather, 45 (because you cut a few scvs while making the orbital).
On the other hand, you say that it's not very feasible to have more than 40... but on my first try I easily got 45. 40 is shitty scv production because you cut 5 scvs for no reason. 35 scvs, your production target, is not good because you cut 1 scv every minute, or 1 in 4 scvs.
So... whereas I was off by 3 scvs in my estimation due to forgetting about the 2nd orbital time... you're still off by 10 scvs. this is roughly 20% of your economy. Are you really OK with that?
Getting supply blocked once is NEVER ok in your first 100 supply.
Also, what? cutting scvs to get stim? >.>
Id actually forgotten about the cutting scvs for oribtal time, so its more like 43. Say i cut 3 scvs in the first 10 min. Thats obviously reasonable. My goal is now 40. Getting supply blocked puts me down maybe 2 or 3 scvs.
Lol at 6 min expo being late. Also getting supply blocked once isnt a game changer.
I cut scvs for:
Stim, a bunker or 2 to defend against a 3 gate expo push, i dunno mabye am early factory for quick meds.
Overall 35 is fine. Watch Pro TvP, do they have more than 40? Very rarely. I dont need any more answers. I appreciate the input. But i have my answer
If I could have 40, well go me, those 5 scvs are not really gonna change the outcome of a game.
On August 28 2011 02:00 Maxie wrote: Quick 2 rax (TvZ) question: how do you know when it's time to end the aggression and go home?
I guess it's very risky to continue the aggression if you lose your scvs building the bunker, or if there's a spine crawler going down, but I'd like some general 2raxing advice.
Just go out and play it. You will die a few times and learn or you will pull back too early and lose later coz of it. Either way you gaining the experience you need. No real way to figure out gamesense without playing. Noone can tell you how to judge a game while you playing.
Had a feeling that I would get a response like that, I guess I'll just go out there and practice it... so far I haven't had great success with it, though, either I deal no damage at all or I kill off his natural, go home thinking that my opponent is way behind and macro up only to realize he wasn't that much behind at all.
My zerg friend who is high masters says that I should keep being aggressive after a successful 2rax, thoughts on that?
EPT
. He normally will only be able to pressure with stalker/zealot and by that time bunker is up. Also your scouting worker will see it so you can put up some makeshift stuff if need be. 
