EPTThe main threats are : 3g stargate, 3/4g blink, 1g FE (don't want to fall to much behind nor all in the P).
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imr.e
112 Posts
The main threats are : 3g stargate, 3/4g blink, 1g FE (don't want to fall to much behind nor all in the P). | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On August 22 2011 08:46 imr.e wrote: Do you have a good (macro) opening for mech in TvP, (master level if it can help), I doubt that I can handle blink all ins with a siege expand, but if you've a bo in which you throw down your CC before your port, I'd enjoy it. The main threats are : 3g stargate, 3/4g blink, 1g FE (don't want to fall to much behind nor all in the P). 1/1/1 with a few bunkers works well. Once you set up a CC you can add 3 for factories. | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
Any information about pure mech in TvT is much appreciated. | ||
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Lifter
United States126 Posts
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Xplitcit
United States419 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 22 2011 08:46 imr.e wrote: Do you have a good (macro) opening for mech in TvP, (master level if it can help), I doubt that I can handle blink all ins with a siege expand, but if you've a bo in which you throw down your CC before your port, I'd enjoy it. The main threats are : 3g stargate, 3/4g blink, 1g FE (don't want to fall to much behind nor all in the P). Just 2 rax expo. You can flat out kill 1g expo. And hold all the all ins. Holding 3G VR takes practice and good bunker placement though | ||
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bwodie
Australia41 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:35 Kamais_Ookin wrote: I've been going marine tank every game in TVT but starting with cloak banshee for harassment. Is cloak banshee's still a viable strategy if I want to go Mech TvT? I've never tried pure mech before in TvT, is it the 1/1/1 build? Can I do 1/2/1? Any information about pure mech in TvT is much appreciated. I am in exactly the same board. Considering moving to mech but have no idea where to start. | ||
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imr.e
112 Posts
On August 22 2011 12:32 Squigly wrote: Just 2 rax expo. You can flat out kill 1g expo. And hold all the all ins. Holding 3G VR takes practice and good bunker placement though How do you do your transition and deal with a two base all in (6/7 gate + 5gate/colo). It seems (just theorycrafting here) that you let a huge window in which you don't produce that much stuff (or you cut bio later on, and trade armies?) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:09 imr.e wrote: How do you do your transition and deal with a two base all in (6/7 gate + 5gate/colo). It seems (just theorycrafting here) that you let a huge window in which you don't produce that much stuff (or you cut bio later on, and trade armies?) I mean tbh if your main worries are 1 gate FE and a 1 base tech all-in, you just need to check how many gasses he's taking; if he's on 1 gas, he's either 1 gate FEing or 4gating, which you can tell by seeing if he makes a nexus. If he's on 2 gas, he's either going for a tech all-in or a slower expo. The easiest way to do this is scout with an scv, then follow-up scout with your first factory unit, a hellion when he's only got 2.5 gateway units, and you'll see everything there is to see. | ||
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imr.e
112 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:19 Blazinghand wrote: I mean tbh if your main worries are 1 gate FE and a 1 base tech all-in, you just need to check how many gasses he's taking; if he's on 1 gas, he's either 1 gate FEing or 4gating, which you can tell by seeing if he makes a nexus. If he's on 2 gas, he's either going for a tech all-in or a slower expo. The easiest way to do this is scout with an scv, then follow-up scout with your first factory unit, a hellion when he's only got 2.5 gateway units, and you'll see everything there is to see. The purpose of the bo I'm looking for are : not dying vs a 1b all in (scouted), and not be stupidly behing against a 1g FE (nexus first he deserves his all in) while getting the less bio possible. Scouting a protoss isn't a problem at all in my opinion, I just wonder if some of you have a general opening with CC before port or not. | ||
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phoenixfeather95
665 Posts
I always have a hard time with muta harass, my question in, what is the normal time for mutas to come out, assuming I don't do a crippling blow to his economy i.e it's a normal game (no all-in etc.). And following that question, when should i start my engineering bay (for turrets) + Armory (for Thors)? I usually start the E bay right after I take my natural, is this too late/early? Thanks! | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On August 22 2011 19:24 phoenixfeather95 wrote: Hey guys, I always have a hard time with muta harass, my question in, what is the normal time for mutas to come out, assuming I don't do a crippling blow to his economy i.e it's a normal game (no all-in etc.). And following that question, when should i start my engineering bay (for turrets) + Armory (for Thors)? I usually start the E bay right after I take my natural, is this too late/early? Thanks! Usually, you'll see muta at 10/11min, sometimes at 9 Personnally, i use a scan at ~~7/8min and if i see a lair morphing, i'll get Ebay at 9 Else i'll get it around 11/12 | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:49 imr.e wrote: The purpose of the bo I'm looking for are : not dying vs a 1b all in (scouted), and not be stupidly behing against a 1g FE (nexus first he deserves his all in) while getting the less bio possible. Scouting a protoss isn't a problem at all in my opinion, I just wonder if some of you have a general opening with CC before port or not. You might be looking for something similar to this old  1 Rax, 1 Factory Siege Rush Expo off of 2 gasses. If I were going to think of a way to adapt this for TvP, I'd delay the 2nd refinery and use the extra minerals for a high-ground bunker. While waiting for enough gas to start tank production, produce a hellion out of your factory and scout the protoss. Count his gasses and whether or not he has an expo. A 1 Rax 1 Fact Siege Expo is going to, by nature, be less economical than a 1 Rax expo and will be a little behind a 1 gate expand in terms of economy; but the hellion should provide you with the scouting information you need to hold off early protoss all-ins. With any BO, you need to balance teching/army and economy, and there's no BO that's as economical as 1 gate FE (which is susceptible to fast rax allins) but also water-tight against the variety of protoss all-ins and pressure expos that are out there. In all likelyhood the final answer will be "open with a somewhat economical opening and scout him" for expansion and gas timing. | ||
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Carrera26
United States29 Posts
(mass upgraded marine medivac) Very very high percentage, but the one tactic I keep losing to is a big 9-10 minute baneling bust. I usually have most of my Raxes on the low ground to eat up the banelings, and they do to a great degree, but if the Zerg commits a LOT to that bust (like 40-50+ blings) it still gets through and I have a very hard time spending my $$$ to re-up before the follow-up slings and blings. I feel like if I could read this coming I could pre-split a bunch of sacrificial marines up front and protect enough to keep the natural mining. I don't want to do this blind through as they would be far less help any other big pushes protected behind raxes and bunkers. Thoughts are scouting, floating raxe(s) at about 7 minutes or maybe just an extra layer or 2 of naked raxes to soak up more blings. (I usually float a lot of Minerals before push-out @ 12-15 minutes) I do like the thought that flying raxes might provoke Mutas or Hydras, both of which suck hard vs. mass marine. I'm looking for a no-gas or gas-light option as early on all my gas is going to the upgrades and Medivacs that make this build so powerful. Anyone else do the Uber Ups and found a good solution? Thanks | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:35 Kamais_Ookin wrote: I've been going marine tank every game in TVT but starting with cloak banshee for harassment. Is cloak banshee's still a viable strategy if I want to go Mech TvT? I've never tried pure mech before in TvT, is it the 1/1/1 build? Can I do 1/2/1? Any information about pure mech in TvT is much appreciated. I tend to go for 1/1/1 but don't add on 2nd gas so you can get an expo up. You're quite flexible and nothing will surprise you. If you go for banshees off 1/1/1 you can swap tech lab with fact start after banshe is out so you still get blue flame quite fast while getting an expo. After CC is building add on 2nd gas and get some facts. | ||
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Aletheia27
United States267 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:09 Numy wrote: I tend to go for 1/1/1 but don't add on 2nd gas so you can get an expo up. You quite flexible and nothing will surprise you. If you go for banshees off 1/1/1 you can swap tech lab with fact start after banshe is out so you still get blue flame quite fast while getting an expo. After CC is building add on 2nd gas and get some facts. Basically what the above said. THe reason you want to take your expo pretty quick is because yo ucan't realy support full mech on only one base worth of gas without falling behind in army with a bio player. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:09 imr.e wrote: How do you do your transition and deal with a two base all in (6/7 gate + 5gate/colo). It seems (just theorycrafting here) that you let a huge window in which you don't produce that much stuff (or you cut bio later on, and trade armies?) Just bunker up and youll be fine. You already have 2, just add 2 more etc. If yous scout mass gate its no issue at all. 5 Gate colossus, tbh im not sure when it his but you should have 2 vikes out so youll hold fine. | ||
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imr.e
112 Posts
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:35 Kamais_Ookin wrote: I've been going marine tank every game in TVT but starting with cloak banshee for harassment. Is cloak banshee's still a viable strategy if I want to go Mech TvT? I've never tried pure mech before in TvT, is it the 1/1/1 build? Can I do 1/2/1? Any information about pure mech in TvT is much appreciated. Cloaked banshee opening is always viable vs T. Will want to cancel cloak research if he scouts it though because it is not very difficult to straight counter cloak if you know it is coming. Getting a raven too is always useful though will delay some factory production. Opening with 1-1-1 or factory with marines into expand is generally what Koreans do. 1-1-1 being the safest and biggest harass potential of course. General mech stuff; expand as soon as possible and get both refineries. Sink minerals into quicker third, fourth etc. (acquire more gas :D) and spam missile turrets if at all needed. Always double armory if you are in a comfortable position. No need to rush to get armory unless opponent is making several banshees and / or vikings. | ||
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