EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 11
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Ingenol
United States1328 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On August 20 2011 14:03 ComBro1 wrote: I find that the problem with the 1 rax fe is that I simply get sentry 4 gated and cant repair the bunkers, and just die. Do I fix that with closer bunkers to the cc or more bunkers or what? i dont want to have to make more than 3 rax total before I tech up. Edit: sorry but when cheese fails stuff usually work in mid-high diamond, and i dont wanna pf rush thattt bad Protoss all-ins are very strong against a 1 rax FE due to lack of tech, stim, or marauders. When 1 rax FEing, actively scout for all-ins. As long as he doesn't 1 gate FE (which you'll be able to scout), you want to lay down a number bunkers depending on the map. If he's being passive with his army, keep an scv outside his nat choke and watch for a push. Lay out your bunkers in such a way that they support eachother, ideally in a concave on the high ground like on shakuras, or in a straight line, but not in an anti-concave if this can be avoided; if you do anticoncave them, leave gaps in between-- you need to maximize surface areas for scvs. Get a missile turret if you think he's going DTs. If he did a slower expo, it's ok to cut a few scvs to get a couple more rax up more quickly. Once you've got 3 rax, and are producing, begin getting upgrades and teching up. Slightly overMaynard, so that you have more scvs in your natural than in your main; you want as many scvs on hand instantly if you need to repair bunkers as possible. On August 20 2011 12:28 iBRomano wrote: Is MMM extremely out of style now? I see mech everywhere I go. Terran is my offrace, and I've always went MMM, adding ghosts where necessary. Is it better to go mech? I know mech Terran is immobile other than the hellions and vikings, and the bio ball has a generally larger mobile force, but is it... unfavourable to go MMM? Which matchup? MMM is standard TvP due to its mobility and power. Add vikings and ghosts to counter Protoss splash tech. MMM is relatively rare in TvZ due to the effectiveness of infestors, lings, and banelings against bio forces-- terran usually needs/wants tanks for the space control. MMM is relatively rare in TvT due to the effectiveness of tanks and hellions against bio forces-- the splash damage is very strong, and it's hard (but not impossible) to stop the tank player from gradually pushing into your base. On August 20 2011 10:51 Sty1877 wrote: Hi folks, awesome thread. I've been hearing about the P v T 1 1 1 all in and variations, and my question is which is the best? I've heard of some that incorporate expansions, while others hit early. Personally I'm looking for the one that hits hardest and fastest. What was the build that MVP went against MC? That is the one I'd love to study and eventually achieve. Does anyone have a replay of it? If not do you know the build or the build in general? My tvp is horrid  . Thanks1/1/1 has a lot of variations, but this is the usual strategy:
Variations in the build are based on whether you see a high stalker count (make raven) or no robo (tanks, banshees with cloak) or zealot/sentry (no cloak, no siege, addon-swap to starport instead of having it build its own and get another banshee) or fast immortals (optional siege, no cloak since he has robo). Due to the early effectiveness of these tech units in small numbers, plus the lack of protoss tech that a 1 gate FE gas, this build is fairly brutal. Against a "safe" protoss expo, such as 3 gate sentries or robo before expand, this build will not work. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 20 2011 16:59 Blazinghand wrote: Protoss all-ins are very strong against a 1 rax FE due to lack of tech, stim, or marauders. When 1 rax FEing, actively scout for all-ins. As long as he doesn't 1 gate FE (which you'll be able to scout), you want to lay down a number bunkers depending on the map. If he's being passive with his army, keep an scv outside his nat choke and watch for a push. Lay out your bunkers in such a way that they support eachother, ideally in a concave on the high ground like on shakuras, or in a straight line, but not in an anti-concave if this can be avoided; if you do anticoncave them, leave gaps in between-- you need to maximize surface areas for scvs. Get a missile turret if you think he's going DTs. If he did a slower expo, it's ok to cut a few scvs to get a couple more rax up more quickly. Once you've got 3 rax, and are producing, begin getting upgrades and teching up. Slightly overMaynard, so that you have more scvs in your natural than in your main; you want as many scvs on hand instantly if you need to repair bunkers as possible. I actually think throwing down the CC in your base and not floating it over until you know you safe is best. Only on a map like shakuras would I suggest taking your natural with 1 rax FE. The best he can do if you don't float over is to contain you with sentries. Your build should be able to get medivacs out in a reasonable time and then you land up even or slightly ahead of him. It's far safer than trying to throw down tons of bunkers at your nat and hope he doesn't FF the bunkers properly. On August 20 2011 16:59 Blazinghand wrote: Due to the early effectiveness of these tech units in small numbers, plus the lack of protoss tech that a 1 gate FE gas, this build is fairly brutal. Against a "safe" protoss expo, such as 3 gate sentries or robo before expand, this build will not work. Many protoss guys say it's actually better to 1 gate FE than to 3gate. I tend to agree. Any kind of prolonged 1 base play that isn't stargate is going to have a tough time against 1/1/1. Robo before expand will also have quite a tough time against a heavy banshee variant. Overall 1/1/1 is effective build on many maps but you got to be careful to select the right map, you don't want a map that is too long or has no real choke point for you to abuse with siege. | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
2: How do you respond to a Protoss going with the mass upgrades zealot/archon(ht) style when you're playing standard MMM? More ghosts? I've heard that you should go more marine heavy, which makes sense to a certain degree since neither zealots nor archons are armored... but if the Protoss gets one half decent storm off, the marines are as good as dead. A thought: blue flame hellions? 3: You go for a rectored hellion expand in TvZ and when you poke the zerg's natural with ~4 hellions, you see that he has speedlings, a queen and a decently placed spine crawler. What do you do? Try to poke at the lings, try to get to the drones or back off to kill creep tumors and hold watchtowers? I've been going with the last option as trying to get some drones is basically guaranteed suicide with a low chance of some degree of success. Thoughts? Note: I'm in Plat. | ||
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ComBro1
80 Posts
2. Ghosts and medivacs really help, and since you will be kiting a lot, control the medivacs so that they dont move then heal with the bio. 3. People do different things with this, I've seen TLO and select just chill out right outside of the creep, but I only do that if I'm really feelin the apm lol. I usually just keep watchtowers so they cant see a push until its at the front | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
2. Get a lot of ghosts, so you can just emp everything, plus great vs zealots. Also abuse drops since they have few stalkers, it's easy to pick up and escape. Try and use a dropship with lowish energy incase of feedback. 3. Yes I agree, try to deny creep as much as possible, the first hellions don't need to kill drones. | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
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Xplitcit
United States419 Posts
On August 21 2011 05:12 deathtrance wrote: How do you deal with mass muta? Turrets don't help, as they just get sniped fast. As my marines come in, he runs and harasses some other base. HOW If he has that many mutas he wont have that many ground units. Whenever I see people make mutas, I just push and win. It's important to keep the pressure up when they have a lot of mutas. They can't harass your base if they're too busy defending. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 21 2011 05:23 Xplitcit wrote: If he has that many mutas he wont have that many ground units. Whenever I see people make mutas, I just push and win. That is really really bad advice. Please don't give such advice in this thread. The rest of your advice is decent but it's a bit situational. I'm ingame but afterwards I'll outline something | ||
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Valkola
Finland128 Posts
On August 21 2011 03:22 Maxie wrote: 1: How do you approach creep when pushing with marine/tank/medivac? I've been sieging off creep, trying to clean up the creep before moving forward, but doing so makes a push extremely slow if you're playing against someone with good creep spread (also, it can take a lot of scans). 2: How do you respond to a Protoss going with the mass upgrades zealot/archon(ht) style when you're playing standard MMM? More ghosts? I've heard that you should go more marine heavy, which makes sense to a certain degree since neither zealots nor archons are armored... but if the Protoss gets one half decent storm off, the marines are as good as dead. A thought: blue flame hellions? 3: You go for a rectored hellion expand in TvZ and when you poke the zerg's natural with ~4 hellions, you see that he has speedlings, a queen and a decently placed spine crawler. What do you do? Try to poke at the lings, try to get to the drones or back off to kill creep tumors and hold watchtowers? I've been going with the last option as trying to get some drones is basically guaranteed suicide with a low chance of some degree of success. Thoughts? Note: I'm in Plat. 1.In TvZ saving energy for at least 2 scans in preparation for a push is important but the more the better. Every time you face good creep spread while pushing stim about 5 marines and scan and try to kill as many creep tumors as possible. Scanning immediately a second time onto a place you think his army is waiting is also good so you know if he rushes to engage you (so then you can siege your tanks in time). After you have killed his creep tumors he wont have vision even though there's still creep left and you can take advantage of this in many ways(ask for more info). While you move forward start sieging your tanks one by one and spread them out. When all of your tanks are sieged unsiege the ones at the back one move them to the front. Poke with a small marine force to lure uncontrolled units into your tanks fire and this also helps to see his army movements. Your goal should be to get 1-3 tanks (depending on the size of you total army) shooting at his hatchery and a group of marines at front doing damage. Keep evverything else at the back and well spread out. 2.In my experience and watching a lot of pro games going the standard MMM mix with marine to marauder ratio at about 2:3 (1 reactor 4 tech labs) and mixing in ghost already on 2 bases when you scout this style. Try to snipe/emp templars before engaging (cloak is sick!) or if he has only mass archon zealot stim and kite really well and be patient to only emp once his units are clumped up (target archons preferably). The key to success in all of TvP is multi pronged attacks be it by drops or by land. Attack where his army isn't and when he comes to defend fall back and attack with another group of units elsewhere. 3.If u can kill lings but dont get surrounded. If he has only a few lings and he hasn't blocked off his ramp you can go straight into his main (assuming his natural is defended with spines, otherwise just go for the natural). If he keeps his lings at the back and doesn't let you hit anything without being hit by spines then just hang around kill creep tumors and dont let him get map control. -500 masters random plaeyer | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
Going for an as strong as possible marine/tank push as possible at about 9:30 game time in TvZ (with an early expand behind it and a third soon on the way), decent idea or is it terrible if you don't apply any noteworthy pressure to a zerg during the early game? I mean, he gets to drone up quite a bit, though I don't feel like the usual reactor hellion expand forces much defense anyway... then again I don't play Zerg, and I might be wrong. @Valkola: I actually didn't know that the creep itself doesn't give vision, thanks for that piece of information. And about TvP... well, let's just say I just played a guy who went for zealot/archon/ht and he didn't have detection. Ninja EMP:s all over his army  @Willzzz: If hive tech (or something else that is nasty) is on the way, you don't have all the time in the world... or at least I don't feel like you do ;P | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On August 21 2011 02:25 Numy wrote: I actually think throwing down the CC in your base and not floating it over until you know you safe is best. Only on a map like shakuras would I suggest taking your natural with 1 rax FE. The best he can do if you don't float over is to contain you with sentries. Your build should be able to get medivacs out in a reasonable time and then you land up even or slightly ahead of him. It's far safer than trying to throw down tons of bunkers at your nat and hope he doesn't FF the bunkers properly. I agree. I don't think you should expo on the low ground at all. The precautions I suggested are for when you fly to the low ground, and are important against a 6 gate timing attack. | ||
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.Johnny
United States16 Posts
2. Ive been trying to do the Rine Tank Banshee Ravan allin Vs P, but haven't really refined it. Anywhere I can find a BO or is it pretty much reactor rax, siege tanks, a Ravan and banshees that push around 8-9 mins? | ||
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KaneT
2 Posts
TvT-Cloaked Banshee or iechoic's BF Hellions and Banshee build or quick Seige Tank or something you suggest TvZ- 2 factory Hellions with Rines or reactor Hellions with Maurauders or something you suggest TvP- Banshee/Rine/Tank/Raven or 2 racks with factory unseiged tanks or quick BC or something you suggest I'm looking to break into Plat. Do you think I should focus on 2 base play more? Seems like a lot of my BOs are all ins. T is powerful off 1 base though obviously. Any other tips and things to focus on to get into Plat would be great. Thanks thanks. | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
TvT: After watching EGDemuslim's stream I picked up his build (or a variation of it). You open with a 12 rax as normal, but you don't get your gas until ~15-16. Keep producing marines and scv:s until you can afford a CC, right after the CC you should be able to build a factory. Then get a starport, tech lab on factory and start getting blue flame. Add 2 more factories and continue as you please, I personally get a tech lab on the starport and get a raven, then swap one of the new factories onto it and get a reactor on the starport. Switch from hellions to siege tanks at an appropriate time, build a medivac (or two) if you feel like you can perform a BFH drop. Edit: Keep producing Vikings, you want to have air control. TvZ: Reactor hellion expand into marine tank medivac. TvP: 1 rax gasless expand or 2 rax pressure expand. I think you really have to start going for 2-3 base play, having nothing but allins is terrible... though on the other hand you shouldn't be like me who never does any allins at all either. Disclaimer: I'm not a great player myself, if you feel like this is poor advice please tell me. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
On August 21 2011 18:40 SimDawg wrote: Okay, this is sort of a side question. I've been doing that hellion marine timing push I asked about earlier in this thread, and I've been having a lot of success with it, but I keep dying to roach rushes. And it's just blind roach rushes too, 1 base all-ins, I scout it but I just can't possibly come up with a decent defense. Any suggestions? Are you getting stim for the marines? If so, marauders. Getting blue flame? get a tank or two (don't need siege). Also, bunkers. A lot of them (assuming it's 1base roach or something similar). | ||
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Shucks!
United States118 Posts
On August 20 2011 14:07 Ingenol wrote: Are the Terran builds on liquidpedia pretty standard. optimized and current? I noticed there isn't really a dedicated mech BO for TvT up there yet. I'd like to toy around offracing Terran and am looking for three standard builds I could use for the three different matchups. I'm a mid-Master's Zerg so something standard/macro-oriented would be best. Any recommendations? First off, any time you do offracing, even if you are a master's league zerg, you're going to want to do some kind of timing oriented play. Terran Macro is hard transition from zerg, I promise. I wouldn't use the liquipedia builds, just because they aren't kept up with enough. Go download some replays and get inspired. Find a build you like for each matchup and go with it. Or just 3 rax every game, you would be surprised how well you can do.... | ||
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adiga
495 Posts
since the start of using mech play at TvT my ratio went down to like 30% only. My stats at the moment are: TvT: 11-24, TvZ: 14-8, TvP 13-11 So my question is: Do I have to play mech to keep it up? if so do can anyone link me with a good guide? a replay will be awesome too. I mean siege tank marines+marauders are ok but at the end of the battle I'm losing cos the opponent got sick amount of siege tanks and I got like 10 tops. BTW I'm a low Master player(cos of me losing to too many terrans lol :X). The only game I tried mech was from what I remembered from stream and it actually worked out pretty fine lol :X | ||
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
On August 22 2011 00:34 adiga wrote: Do I have to play mech to keep it up? if so do can anyone link me with a good guide? a replay will be awesome too. I second this; I've been searching around TL for a solid non-TvZ mech oriented guide but couldn't really find one. I also have a question about mech: should I always be producing off my starport once I go mech? If so, should I make dropships, vikings, ravens, or just not produce out of it? I know it's scout dependent but my gut feeling is that the starport isn't constantly producing, and that I should probably make a raven or two, a dropship or two, and vikings as necessary. | ||
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