EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 19
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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MechKing
United States3004 Posts
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Xplitcit
United States419 Posts
On September 05 2011 07:02 MechKing wrote: Hey guys, does anyone have a good TvT all in? I can't find any good ones. I hate playing TvT late game and would like to just win early lol. Easiest all in to do 10-depot 12-rax 13-gas 15-orbital When 100 gas build factory 19-second gas when get enough gas build armory when the thor comes out pull scvs to repair along with marines remember to save scan for banshees. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On September 05 2011 07:02 MechKing wrote: Hey guys, does anyone have a good TvT all in? I can't find any good ones. I hate playing TvT late game and would like to just win early lol. If you go for a 3 rax stim all-in, you make it very coin-flippy, especially if you can prevent him from scouting the 2nd and 3rd rax. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Rax_Stim_(vs._Terran) | ||
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najo
United States75 Posts
On September 05 2011 06:46 Squigly wrote: I third this. Having looked through wherever i could, ive found no standard opener. Im TvZ and TvP i know exactly what im doing until im taking a 3rd. I have a plan and it helps so much that i dont have to think about macro. Just do it. TvT i stat off thinking. Hmm i should make tanks. I wonder if im getting cheesed. Its TvT so probably. I wonder if its banshees or BFH since ive scouted double gas. Etc etc Since i dont know BO, i dont know what scouting means either. Also is 6 min the standard scan timing? Heres the build that I have been using for some time in TvT. Its generally really safe, and you get your expansion really quick. It's a gas first banshee opening, followed by a quick blue flame drop into mech play. 10 supply at ramp 11 gas 13 rax 16 factory 16 orbital 16 marine, keep making marines 17 supply at ramp 21 bunker (between depots) starport when factory is finished, techlab on factory halfway through 23 supply 25 banshee 30 CC 31 refinery 32 depot While the banshee is building I use my next 400 minerals for an expansion, roughly around the 5:45 mark. As soon as the banshee is done building, swap the starport with the factory again and begin making a hellion and research blue flame. Grab your second gas and another depot as the minerals allow. You should be able to kill some workers/see their tech with the banshee. If you scout them going for a banshee as well, make a viking instead of a medivac first. After the blue flame drop, I drop another factory down and reactor on the barracks, for the swap and get siege mode. I also get a reactor on the starport to start pumping vikings, and begin producing tank + hellions. The bunker isn't completely necessary if you scout the opponent and feel safe. I prefer to get it since on two player maps I only scout with the banshee so that my factory/orbital timings are a bit more crisp. I use the bunker + 2 depots to wall off so any hellion pokes or marine pushes are easily defended. Siege should finish at a reasonable time, so you should be able to defend against a siege contain with repair on the bunker and air control if you're put into that situation. Land the expansion in your natural when you feel safe. You should have 2 factories, one with a tech lab one with reactor and a reactored starport somewhere around the 11-12 minute mark. From here you continue to build factories and use the barracks for tech lab add-ons. If my opponent is trying to get air control I usually drop at least one more starport. Late game I transition into BC's. Here's a link of the replay to showcase the build: http://bit.ly/q9d8YX Edit: First post btw :D, hopefully will be helpful. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On September 05 2011 07:30 najo wrote: Heres the build that I have been using for some time in TvT. Its generally really safe, and you get your expansion really quick. It's a gas first banshee opening, followed by a quick blue flame drop into mech play. 10 supply at ramp 11 gas 13 rax 16 factory 16 orbital 16 marine, keep making marines 17 supply at ramp 21 bunker (between depots) starport when factory is finished, techlab on factory halfway through 23 supply 25 banshee 30 CC 31 refinery 32 depot While the banshee is building I use my next 400 minerals for an expansion, roughly around the 5:45 mark. As soon as the banshee is done building, swap the starport with the factory again and begin making a hellion and research blue flame. Grab your second gas and another depot as the minerals allow. You should be able to kill some workers/see their tech with the banshee. If you scout them going for a banshee as well, make a viking instead of a medivac first. After the blue flame drop, I drop another factory down and reactor on the barracks, for the swap and get siege mode. I also get a reactor on the starport to start pumping vikings, and begin producing tank + hellions. The bunker isn't completely necessary if you scout the opponent and feel safe. I prefer to get it since on two player maps I only scout with the banshee so that my factory/orbital timings are a bit more crisp. I use the bunker + 2 depots to wall off so any hellion pokes or marine pushes are easily defended. Siege should finish at a reasonable time, so you should be able to defend against a siege contain with repair on the bunker and air control if you're put into that situation. Land the expansion in your natural when you feel safe. You should have 2 factories, one with a tech lab one with reactor and a reactored starport somewhere around the 11-12 minute mark. From here you continue to build factories and use the barracks for tech lab add-ons. If my opponent is trying to get air control I usually drop at least one more starport. Late game I transition into BC's. Here's a link of the replay to showcase the build: http://bit.ly/q9d8YX Edit: First post btw :D, hopefully will be helpful. This sounds like its wave after wave of gayness, its exactly what i was looking for! Thank you! | ||
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TsuStyle
United States10 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On September 05 2011 10:28 TsuStyle wrote: Question, are hellions going to be viable in TvT post patch? Should I even worry about learning these builds? For now no. While it is always good to learn new build no one really has enough data to prove that mech is still better then bio mech with the new patch. Reason being that marines take an extra shot from hellion and that is huge. Especially with medvacs and good splitting. Im in the same situation as you btw. I was going to learn mech but decided not to because the new patch nerfs hellions. Im gonna wait to see if it is still way better then biomech | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
Also how do you spot a 3 gate? | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
In TvP i love to take an early third if they go collosi. Reason being that collosi numbers get scary around 13 min mark and by that time *i take my third at 9-10* I just overwhelm with my army because i get so ahead. Also, i like to drop to keep the toss busy while i take my third. I just have one question tho. At the time i only have 3 rax and medvacs *when i scout collosi*. So my question is. When should i add the extra barracks? Before my third? Or after my third? I feel like if i add them after i just get killed. But if i add them before then i can't really take an early third and upgrade. This is off 1 rax fe btw. Thanks! | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On September 05 2011 10:54 lizzard_warish wrote: Whats the tell tale sign for a 4 gate? And whats the proper response if your going 2 rax FE? I spotted a 4 gate by slipping an scv in, expanded and threw down two bunkers only to die, and another game I pressured [had no idea he was 4 gating] and he had overran my natural before my bunkers were even close to completion. 1 gas and saving over 50 chrono boost. They want to use the chrono as much as possible on the warp gate. with 2 rax you should be fine with 2 bunkers but you have to make sure to repair. Also a thing i do with an scv is i keep it hidden in the nat of the toss. And if no expo is taken by 5 min i put up a second bunker. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On September 05 2011 10:54 lizzard_warish wrote: Whats the tell tale sign for a 4 gate? And whats the proper response if your going 2 rax FE? I spotted a 4 gate by slipping an scv in, expanded and threw down two bunkers only to die, and another game I pressured [had no idea he was 4 gating] and he had overran my natural before my bunkers were even close to completion. Bunker on the high ground in your main, unless you're on shakuras plateau, which has a high-ground natural. Pull scvs and repair the bunkers and you'll hold. The 4-warpgate rush basically means the protoss is trapped on 1 base. Once you've held off the initial rush, You'll both be on 1 base, but you'll have double mule and double scv production, so when you fly out you'll have a huge economy and he'll still not have recovered from his all-in. To scout a 4 gate, your scv will scout 1 gas (delayed 2nd gas) which means he's not 2 gate robo expoing or any tech all-in. He'll have saved up chrono boost. Subsequent scouting will show he hasn't taken his natural, which means he's all-inning. With 1 gas, he must be 4-gating. | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On September 05 2011 11:01 lizzard_warish wrote: Ah ok, so DONT take my natural initially? Edited in my other post but I'll just resay it, how do I spot a 3 gate FE? Once again he won't have 2 gases. But he will have used all his chrono on probes. You should never take your nat initially unless its shakuras or antiga with high ground vision. | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On September 05 2011 11:17 lizzard_warish wrote: What are you talking about? 3 gateway FE takes a 2nd gas at a regular timing... the second gas does not come as early as something like a 2 gate robo or DT. The second gas will come after robo and you can easily tell with chrono on the nexus. Oh and a scan on 5:30 is perfect i find | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On September 05 2011 11:01 lizzard_warish wrote: Ah ok, so DONT take my natural initially? Edited in my other post but I'll just resay it, how do I spot a 3 gate FE? As a general rule, when making a natural expansion as Terran, make it inside your main, then fly it out when you know it's safe. The exception to this rule is on shakuras plateau, where your natural is on the high-ground. it's okay to expo that fast, but expoing inside your base then flying out let's you be safe at the cost of a little mining time. A 3 Gate Sentry FE takes a fast 2nd gas and doesn't make any more stalkers after the initial stalker. If you poke his front a little later you'll see he has a natural expo and a lot of sentries. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On September 05 2011 10:57 radiantshadow92 wrote: I have yet another question. In TvP i love to take an early third if they go collosi. Reason being that collosi numbers get scary around 13 min mark and by that time *i take my third at 9-10* I just overwhelm with my army because i get so ahead. Also, i like to drop to keep the toss busy while i take my third. I just have one question tho. At the time i only have 3 rax and medvacs *when i scout collosi*. So my question is. When should i add the extra barracks? Before my third? Or after my third? I feel like if i add them after i just get killed. But if i add them before then i can't really take an early third and upgrade. This is off 1 rax fe btw. Thanks! just incase it was missed | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
I assume it's due to the speed of the hellions - hellions can just go around small numbers of siege tanks, and while they shouldn't pose a huge threat to the main (wall-ins are actually a good idea in TvT atm, IMO), they do to any expansion at the natural. In addition, going for hellions early on frees up gas for vikings, or shenanigans such as banshees (with or without cloak), AND infrastructure - factories actually cost gas... so so far i've been sticking to hellions until either: A: My opponent is getting siege tanks B: I have my basic infrastructure up, which is three factories and a starport. Opinions and thoughts about this? Sorry if it's a messy post, I just woke up. | ||
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-Duderino-
United States80 Posts
Atm my favorite build for tvt is rax, 2 rines, factory, reactor on rax, throw down expo in base as you wait for fac n reactor to finish, siege tank as soon as factory is done, throw down starport asap after first siege tank, viking as soon as starport finishes, and be making rines as often as you can, then you just sit in your mineral line save scans and wait for him to either atk with watever thier choosen harrasment is(blue flame or banshee) once the harrasment comes u crush it with ease and then you put your expo down and push wit tanks rines an vikings which will at the very least make them move their expo but you can straight up win there often. you should try to scout if you can, if they fe then just do the push witout waiting for the harras to come, if they do a bio push just siege up at ramp and crush it, if they do tank push its iffy but pull scvs if you have to n you should be fine as your doing tank push throw down 2 more facs switch reactor on rax wit one of them and your set to go into standard mech build if they do some funky air play you wanna get armory n thor asap | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
What should I do, about this, as terran? I'm so used to zerg, where I don't really have to worry about my buildings taking up space, but I played a game last night on AC where I literally had issues placing buildings at a point... am I supposed to put them in the middle of the map, or something? | ||
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