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On March 03 2012 09:57 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Mech TvP.....
I know the Immobility of mech is such a huge issue, and P can exploit that even more with...blink stalkers around the map harassing etc.
Now, I know people will say to put missile turrets, sensor tower and PF. I use sensor tower in my every game, its good, but still, when they blink up, its all over. PF? I think PF is such a huge investment in mid-game when they already have blink stalkers.
If this is late game then yes, It is ok, I can put PF everywhere. But this is only mid game, so how exactly do yuo stop blink stalkers?
Don't build tanks, thor banshee is much stronger, more mobile and doesn't autolose to zealot warp ins. You should always have a hellion or something on the map to scout attack paths, allowing you to reposition in reasonable time. Constantly try to keep a Xel'Naga tower for the same reason.
If blink stalkers are a huge issue in the mid game and you don't have anything out on the map you should have units in your main (or at least be rallying units from factory/starport there) and ideally build turrets around cliffs to try deny observer.
Always look to scan observers and practice target-firing observers with thors if you aren't particularly good at it
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Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile.
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On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile.
10000x bio over mech in tvp.
LastShadow's TvP Vlog watch this one and the next two. TvP used to be the bane of my existence but now its probably my most consistent matchup.
Now my own question, when going gasless FE vs Zerg (i dont 13 gas, like, ever), is it better to pressure with 3, 4 or 5 rax? And then, of course, what are some decent transitions out of 4 and 5 rax? 3 rax is usually medivacs -> tanks, how about the other two?
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On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile.
Bio is better by a long shot. Even goody doesn't play mech TvP anymore. Lastshadow recently said in his vlogs that mech is pretty terrible.
You have to realize that 1 small mistake from the protoss could mean a loss for them too. For example if they get their observer sniped, then you can run in with cloak, EMP EVERYTHING, and then roll over them. It goes both ways.
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On March 03 2012 10:56 Huggerz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 09:57 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Mech TvP.....
I know the Immobility of mech is such a huge issue, and P can exploit that even more with...blink stalkers around the map harassing etc.
Now, I know people will say to put missile turrets, sensor tower and PF. I use sensor tower in my every game, its good, but still, when they blink up, its all over. PF? I think PF is such a huge investment in mid-game when they already have blink stalkers.
If this is late game then yes, It is ok, I can put PF everywhere. But this is only mid game, so how exactly do yuo stop blink stalkers? Don't build tanks, thor banshee is much stronger, more mobile and doesn't autolose to zealot warp ins. You should always have a hellion or something on the map to scout attack paths, allowing you to reposition in reasonable time. Constantly try to keep a Xel'Naga tower for the same reason. If blink stalkers are a huge issue in the mid game and you don't have anything out on the map you should have units in your main (or at least be rallying units from factory/starport there) and ideally build turrets around cliffs to try deny observer. Always look to scan observers and practice target-firing observers with thors if you aren't particularly good at it
I do a 2 base 3 tank, marauder marine double medic timing attack against protoss a lot. It works. It works well. It has no shelf life, you cut tanks after the initial push. Imagine that same bio push, with 3 tanks to snipe the sentries out. Amazing.
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On March 03 2012 11:50 Abstinence wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile. Bio is better by a long shot. Even goody doesn't play mech TvP anymore. Lastshadow recently said in his vlogs that mech is pretty terrible. You have to realize that 1 small mistake from the protoss could mean a loss for them too. For example if they get their observer sniped, then you can run in with cloak, EMP EVERYTHING, and then roll over them. It goes both ways.
No way. It is not as easy as what it sounds like, EMP ing everything.
Everyone knows how many micro Terran ahs to do in an engagement, and 1 small mistake and they are dead considering their vulnerability to Colossi and Storm...
So, maybe Bio is the better choice..... but its hard, very hard ><
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so I'm trying to redo my game plans for my TvX matchups cause apparently when I don't actually play as much anymore, my whole game plan goes to crap. I've written down TvP and TvT gameplans, but idk what to do for TvZ (transitions after the opening)
in my league recently I faced roach ling/roach bane all-ins (like 3-4 in a row) so I have to be careful about that (which kills fast 3rd oc ~6 minutes play imo)
Of course my opener is reactor hellion expand, but I'm not really sure what the most optimal TvZ transition would be. I know there *are* several
(I prefer macro games with hopefully some harass/pressure obviously against Zerg)
not sure which one to use (for long term, as my standard macro build, as well as against plays like roach ling/bane all-ins
- into 3rax 1fact (delayed starport for 2-3 tank push or expand into probably 4-5 tank push with medivacs?)
- into 3rax 1fact 1starport (reactor) (delayed tanks? I guess since I'm not getting tanks I can double ebay? when do I get a 3rd here before or after tanks?)
other ones I found out aren't really types I want to do for general macro plays like rhe into banshees, or whatever
and I don't really think 3rax 1fact (delayed starport) into 2-3 tank push works anymore for my level, and isn't really too good for long term play ish.
I guess it works on shorter maps like metal close by air since I can do constant aggression, but otherwise I don't really know/think it's best
does the fast(er) medivac/delayed tank build hold off roach ling/roach bane all-ins?
EDIT: I guess I can go for a fast 3rd OC ~9 or so minutes rather than the bomber 6 minute one but... I still don't know what to transition to specifically ~__~
EDIT 2: I've also seen kawaiirice go for 3rax 1fact 1 starport, but reactor on the factory, and go for marine (marauder?) hellion medivac push (@1 medivac: pushed) but that might've been just on cloud kingdom? idk, although if I did that I'd probably get tanks eventually, but idk
I guess quicker 2nd factory if I go for the 3rax1fact1starport style too.
and I guess after talking to a teammate, that I'm probably not gonna do the 3rax 1 fact tank first style...
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On March 03 2012 12:48 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 11:50 Abstinence wrote:On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile. Bio is better by a long shot. Even goody doesn't play mech TvP anymore. Lastshadow recently said in his vlogs that mech is pretty terrible. You have to realize that 1 small mistake from the protoss could mean a loss for them too. For example if they get their observer sniped, then you can run in with cloak, EMP EVERYTHING, and then roll over them. It goes both ways. No way. It is not as easy as what it sounds like, EMP ing everything. Everyone knows how many micro Terran ahs to do in an engagement, and 1 small mistake and they are dead considering their vulnerability to Colossi and Storm... So, maybe Bio is the better choice..... but its hard, very hard ><
if you can snipe all of his observer,it very easy to EMP everything with cloakl ghost.
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I don't really understand how to properly fend off drops as Terran. Every time I push out, I get dropped in my my terran or protoss opponent. But if I split my forces, I can't seem to get anywhere with the push.
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On March 03 2012 16:00 nOondn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 12:48 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:On March 03 2012 11:50 Abstinence wrote:On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile. Bio is better by a long shot. Even goody doesn't play mech TvP anymore. Lastshadow recently said in his vlogs that mech is pretty terrible. You have to realize that 1 small mistake from the protoss could mean a loss for them too. For example if they get their observer sniped, then you can run in with cloak, EMP EVERYTHING, and then roll over them. It goes both ways. No way. It is not as easy as what it sounds like, EMP ing everything. Everyone knows how many micro Terran ahs to do in an engagement, and 1 small mistake and they are dead considering their vulnerability to Colossi and Storm... So, maybe Bio is the better choice..... but its hard, very hard >< if you can snipe all of his observer,it very easy to EMP everything with cloakl ghost.
Of course, but the sniping the observer part is not easy especially if the P knows and has more than 1. They are little, can be fast and a little invisible, not as easy as you think, because you have to do so many otehr things, you cant just focus on sniping obs
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On March 03 2012 16:50 Odds wrote:
I don't really understand how to properly fend off drops as Terran. Every time I push out, I get dropped in my my terran or protoss opponent. But if I split my forces, I can't seem to get anywhere with the push.
Scout the map, have something (ideally viking) at obvious drop paths (like on Tal'Darim, a marine at the edge of the cliff past your third and a marine at the edge of the cliff on the low ground base below your main, e.g.). KNOW that shit is coming into your base if there is even a possibility of it (you scout medivacs, or robotics facility).
Control the map as much as possible so your opponent doesn't know when you move out (i.e. Xel'Naga towers usually).
Rally production into your main rather than front of your natural (or wherever else) if drops or mutalisks etc. are a major concern when you are pushing
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On March 03 2012 11:49 Sajaki wrote:
Now my own question, when going gasless FE vs Zerg (i dont 13 gas, like, ever), is it better to pressure with 3, 4 or 5 rax? And then, of course, what are some decent transitions out of 4 and 5 rax? 3 rax is usually medivacs -> tanks, how about the other two?
This question may have gotten lost since i tacked with an answer to someone else' question. Thoughts on this?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 03 2012 18:07 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 16:00 nOondn wrote:On March 03 2012 12:48 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:On March 03 2012 11:50 Abstinence wrote:On March 03 2012 11:22 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Thanks for that.
Sigh...seriously...I think 90% of Ts are having problems with P...
Just curious, which is the better tech to go in TvP - Bio or Mech?
With Bio, 1 small mistake and your dead since they are so vulnerable to Colossi and Storms...
With mech, you are so immobile. Bio is better by a long shot. Even goody doesn't play mech TvP anymore. Lastshadow recently said in his vlogs that mech is pretty terrible. You have to realize that 1 small mistake from the protoss could mean a loss for them too. For example if they get their observer sniped, then you can run in with cloak, EMP EVERYTHING, and then roll over them. It goes both ways. No way. It is not as easy as what it sounds like, EMP ing everything. Everyone knows how many micro Terran ahs to do in an engagement, and 1 small mistake and they are dead considering their vulnerability to Colossi and Storm... So, maybe Bio is the better choice..... but its hard, very hard >< if you can snipe all of his observer,it very easy to EMP everything with cloakl ghost. Of course, but the sniping the observer part is not easy especially if the P knows and has more than 1. They are little, can be fast and a little invisible, not as easy as you think, because you have to do so many otehr things, you cant just focus on sniping obs
You can't rely entirely on sniping observers but it doesn't hurt to incorporate at least attempts to do so into your play. You'll often be scanning the protoss army to find out his composition, location, etc, at the start of fights, and if his observer is a little bit forwards, it's worth trying to squeeze off a viking volley at it. Don't rely on it, but it's a useful tool in your arsenal of "things you can do to really make the Protoss regret his race decision"
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So I had been making great progress as Terran recently, my forever gold self was finally going to hit Plat as I had been playing and beating Plat players. I sat down tonight to grind out a monster session (2 cans of Monster baby!) and get that elusive promotion.
Instead I played the most demoralizing and heart-breaking set of games ever. I've had a look at the replays and figure I just am not cut out for RTS (which would eliminate the last genre of games that I thought myself good at), In the games here I generally out-macro my opponents but seem to do everything else wrong. Especially against protoss. Can someone take a quick look at these and tell me what I really need to work on (apart from supply blocks, I know thats still a problem  ).
http://drop.sc/125526
http://drop.sc/125525
http://drop.sc/125524
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On March 04 2012 07:32 Klonere wrote:So I had been making great progress as Terran recently, my forever gold self was finally going to hit Plat as I had been playing and beating Plat players. I sat down tonight to grind out a monster session (2 cans of Monster baby!) and get that elusive promotion. Instead I played the most demoralizing and heart-breaking set of games ever. I've had a look at the replays and figure I just am not cut out for RTS (which would eliminate the last genre of games that I thought myself good at), In the games here I generally out-macro my opponents but seem to do everything else wrong. Especially against protoss. Can someone take a quick look at these and tell me what I really need to work on (apart from supply blocks, I know thats still a problem ). http://drop.sc/125526http://drop.sc/125525http://drop.sc/125524
I only watched game 1.
Ok, here's the deal. You have great macro and expanding skills which could be on par with diamond/masters players. But your decision-making sucks. Fix that and you will be promoted asap.
First of all, get more medivacs. You have so much economy that an extra reactored starport shouldn't be a big deal for you. Add it in your production when you have 3 bases. Medivacs are soooo good and can make marines/marauders invulnerable almost. Listen, EVERYTHING ELSE in your macro is fantastic, I am amazed that you actually only are gold.
Now to the big problem, micro and engagements.
You were maxed at one point where protoss only had 150 supply. Also, you went forward and suicided your ghosts to EMP his whole army. That was GREAT even though you lost those ghosts but the opponent now had a crippled army and only 1-2 storms. What did you do? Back off and let's him recover and attack you with 200/200 3-3.
...
When you are maxed and have so many extra OCs, GO AND ATTACK HIM. You can replenish your army so fast. The reason why you become passive is because the lack of medivacs forces you to retreat everytime you miss-stim. So yeah, learn to know when to attack and practice some army engagements in the unit tester or whatever, you'll surely get to diamond.
From a Master Terran.
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On March 04 2012 07:32 Klonere wrote:So I had been making great progress as Terran recently, my forever gold self was finally going to hit Plat as I had been playing and beating Plat players. I sat down tonight to grind out a monster session (2 cans of Monster baby!) and get that elusive promotion. Instead I played the most demoralizing and heart-breaking set of games ever. I've had a look at the replays and figure I just am not cut out for RTS (which would eliminate the last genre of games that I thought myself good at), In the games here I generally out-macro my opponents but seem to do everything else wrong. Especially against protoss. Can someone take a quick look at these and tell me what I really need to work on (apart from supply blocks, I know thats still a problem ). http://drop.sc/125526http://drop.sc/125525http://drop.sc/125524
For the second game you simply lost because of poor army control. Its really too bad how TvP works in that you can play a great opening and midgame only to lose a critical battle and then the game. You were playing great until that point. Always engage in a concave with bio. If you want some additional resources for that, check out lastshadow's stuff. He outlines how to engage late game armies pretty well.
For the 3rd game I think the main things you need to focus on are:
1. Never, ever get caught out in the open with you tanks unsieged. In masters that can be an automatic loss.
2. Always wall in your natural. There's no reason not to do it, and you have to build supply depots anyways.
3. 2nd factory was very late. Always have 2 factorys pumping out tanks before trying to take your 3rd. Unless you're playing bio. This lead to a half assed 2base push which is a zergs favorite thing to see. Only push out with small tank numbers very early in the game, like before 9:30. After that, always attack like you mean it with 7+ tanks. If you don't have the numbers, feint attacks.
Little things to consider that add up:
fast 1/1 don't help you that much if you don't start 2/2 as soon as its done. Armory goes down when 1/1 are about half researched.
3rd and 4th gases were very early. Lead to a mineral deficit.
2 bunkers at your 3rd would have saved the game. I always have at least one bunker at any expo past my natural.
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I'm a Bronze level Terran player and my main build in TvP and TvZ is a 2 rax into expo opening allowing me to hold off things like 4-gates and roach rushes fairly easily. If my opponent is early expanding i can pretty easily go out and push him out but the problem is the TvT. 2 rax holds off a 3 rax but im having serious problems with banshees and terrans simply sieging themselves up. Keeping 1 reactor rax and 1 tech lab rax going whilst trying to get my expo up leaves me very vulnerable to drops and as i said, banshees since i simply cant afford turrets.
Is there a way i can make my opening stronger against this or do i simply have to go for a different one?
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On March 04 2012 09:45 Greenimba wrote:
I'm a Bronze level Terran player and my main build in TvP and TvZ is a 2 rax into expo opening allowing me to hold off things like 4-gates and roach rushes fairly easily. If my opponent is early expanding i can pretty easily go out and push him out but the problem is the TvT. 2 rax holds off a 3 rax but im having serious problems with banshees and terrans simply sieging themselves up. Keeping 1 reactor rax and 1 tech lab rax going whilst trying to get my expo up leaves me very vulnerable to drops and as i said, banshees since i simply cant afford turrets.
Is there a way i can make my opening stronger against this or do i simply have to go for a different one?
Well againt banshees you can either die to cloak or make room in your budget for turrets. Put one in both mineral lines and one near your add-ons (Ebay has to start at around 6:30). Also CS is very good against banshees.
Against a Terran that sieges up just take a fast 3rd. Think in terms of expoiting advantages in the 3 dimentions of RTS games, economy, tech, and army. If you 2 rax you'll have a sizable army in excange for tech and economy. If you have a sizable army and the opponent has teched up so that you can't attack him, take a rast 3rd because he hasn't invested as much into army as you have so you will be safe.
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Hey guys, I know, we all know 1-1-1 is so strong vs Protoss. However....I rarely do it and therefore I would like to see how strong it is, but I cannot seem to find the guide for it...can someone tell me the BO for this 1-1-1?
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On March 04 2012 14:36 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hey guys, I know, we all know 1-1-1 is so strong vs Protoss. However....I rarely do it and therefore I would like to see how strong it is, but I cannot seem to find the guide for it...can someone tell me the BO for this 1-1-1?
I might be going out on a limb here but I really think that its best to to figure out build for yourself. It teaches you how the build working and how you can innovate based on the map.
The build is essentially the same to any 1/1/1 TvT build.
Open reactor hellion like you would in TvZ except keep the rax on the reactor. Obviously you have to take your second gas fairly early like any tech build.
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EPT
