|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On March 02 2012 03:32 MonDeW wrote:
Im back again, on the same page even.
How do you hold a void ray all in when you 1rax gasless fe? I seem to die to it every time i encounter it, because they have too many meaty units, like zealots and void rays.
Im getting quite desperate, it's not fun losing all the time. Thanks.
You can try to go +3 Barracks instead of +2 upon scouting dual gas, you will have more Marines to deal with this kind of all-in.
|
On March 02 2012 03:32 MonDeW wrote:
Im back again, on the same page even.
How do you hold a void ray all in when you 1rax gasless fe? I seem to die to it every time i encounter it, because they have too many meaty units, like zealots and void rays.
Im getting quite desperate, it's not fun losing all the time. Thanks.
i think that one is pretty easy. you go 1 rax, cc and then you add on 2 rax right? make sure to scout it - send your scv in at around 5 mins. if i suspect stargate play i add on a rax or two, bunker up and get lots of marines. get atleast one gas to be able to research combat shields.
|
On March 01 2012 22:53 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Two short questions:
What, generally, is your 2 rax build against zerg?
When do you generally get your gas after 1 rax fe in TvP and TvZ? I've mostly been doing this based on scouting, but I'm wondering if people have a system for doing it.
I either 9 depot 10 10 proxy double rax, 11 11 rax, 11 12 rax, or 12/14. I'm partial to 12/14 now a days because it shouldn't kill a zerg, but it can kill an unprepared zerg.
My most typical is an 11/12 where I proxy the 12 rax and lift it later.
http://drop.sc/124584 VS 600 point masters Z as an example.
Only one I could find that was recent.
|
On March 02 2012 04:02 BinxyBrown wrote:
Avilo says vs toss he mixes in 6 thors to tank zealot hits and buffer for his squishy bio army, has anyone tried this? My first thought was that thors are slow and toss could counter attack, but then i realised the bio in low numbers does really well vs toss units in low numbers so terran would be fine, also PFs are pretty good i hear =D
PF's are shit again protoss. Stalkers can just get behind the back lines and pick apart SCVs. Or, with charge, zeals can surround before you can surround to repair. OR! Collasi out range and pick apart. OR! immortals just eat your face off.
I really almost never PF...ever. Except TvZ after my third. Those bases get PFs
|
Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On March 02 2012 05:54 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 22:53 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Two short questions:
What, generally, is your 2 rax build against zerg?
When do you generally get your gas after 1 rax fe in TvP and TvZ? I've mostly been doing this based on scouting, but I'm wondering if people have a system for doing it. I either 9 depot 10 10 proxy double rax, 11 11 rax, 11 12 rax, or 12/14. I'm partial to 12/14 now a days because it shouldn't kill a zerg, but it can kill an unprepared zerg. My most typical is an 11/12 where I proxy the 12 rax and lift it later.
Another fun trick on maps like Shattered Temple and Metalopolis is to proxy your rax on the lowground down the cliff outside your base, then if your proxy attack doesn't win outright, you can fly it to safety with a smaller marine cut.
|
On March 01 2012 22:53 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Two short questions:
What, generally, is your 2 rax build against zerg?
When do you generally get your gas after 1 rax fe in TvP and TvZ? I've mostly been doing this based on scouting, but I'm wondering if people have a system for doing it.
11/11, or 12/14 on Metalopolis / Shattered Temple close air spawn; build the 14 rax near the edge of your base and land it on low ground.
In TvP, you get dual gas after +2 Barracks. Obviously, you get them later if you go for +3 Barracks or even +4 Barracks.
|
Anybody want to look over this replay and critique it?
Personally it kinda embodies everything in TvP that pisses me off.
Basically it was once of those games where I'd win a battle, come out slightly ahead but couldn't push him any further.
This happened around 3 or 4 times, and by the last time I ended up overcommitting and getting swarmed by zealots.
There are a couple of hiccups in my play. He manages to sneak a probe into my base and start building pylons so I start worrying about some kind of nexus cancel wg (he saves a lot of chrono at the beginning). This slows down medivacs/extra rax/my third etc. As a result I didn't feel comfortable doing early pressure with my medivacs.
Anyway, I appreciate any advice people have because this game seemed pretty ridiculous to me.
http://drop.sc/124645
|
On March 02 2012 08:51 Absentia wrote:Anybody want to look over this replay and critique it? Personally it kinda embodies everything in TvP that pisses me off. Basically it was once of those games where I'd win a battle, come out slightly ahead but couldn't push him any further. This happened around 3 or 4 times, and by the last time I ended up overcommitting and getting swarmed by zealots. There are a couple of hiccups in my play. He manages to sneak a probe into my base and start building pylons so I start worrying about some kind of nexus cancel wg (he saves a lot of chrono at the beginning). This slows down medivacs/extra rax/my third etc. As a result I didn't feel comfortable doing early pressure with my medivacs. Anyway, I appreciate any advice people have because this game seemed pretty ridiculous to me. http://drop.sc/124645
I asked almost the same question on page 160 of this thread and the answer on pretty much all the quotes was:
Expand a lot and don't let the toss expand.
To me that seems a good solution to this problem. The only thing you can't do is go kill the toss... or not do anything I guess.
|
On March 02 2012 00:02 KroN wrote:Hi fellow Terrans, i stongly feel the need to play 1-1-1 into Expand into normal Bio (but with 3-4 siege tanks alive from the beginning), i saw this play in !!!WARNING!!! Light today's GSL spoiler+ Show Spoiler +MKP vs Killer G3 today GSL CodeA i think its quite fun, did anyone ever played this some time? thats vaguely what i saw 1-1-1 Reactor on Rax few hellions to scout (optional)Medivac for hellion marine elevator / drop to harass a little Techlab Fac Tachlab Port Raven inbase CC after about 4 tanks take expo, kill incomming observers, Rax on Fac Techlab, scout with Fac maybe another Rax on Port Techlab, get infantrie upgrades transition into normal bio play. somehow i feel this is pretty safe and pretty powerful, or what am i missing. +DT safe +Safe expanding with few siege tanks +Observer proof +potential to do good eco damage early on if toss isnt scoting the drop +you can hit a pretty goood timing/maybe contain at 2base where thefirst colossi come out if he goes that route. +in a later fight 4 siege tanks and a raven should be a pretty efficient addition to zone and soften up? What do you think are the big weaknesses? Do you think this could be a "every TvP" build for me to refine and learn or do you see it fail? Im just bored of the standard bio opening somehow. Edit: Mid-High diamond, this has to be viable in masters to make sense for me to refine and learn Thanks for your opinion!
nobody has an opinion on this? 
i know its a bit to read! Thanks
|
On March 02 2012 06:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 05:54 iAmJeffReY wrote:On March 01 2012 22:53 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Two short questions:
What, generally, is your 2 rax build against zerg?
When do you generally get your gas after 1 rax fe in TvP and TvZ? I've mostly been doing this based on scouting, but I'm wondering if people have a system for doing it. I either 9 depot 10 10 proxy double rax, 11 11 rax, 11 12 rax, or 12/14. I'm partial to 12/14 now a days because it shouldn't kill a zerg, but it can kill an unprepared zerg. My most typical is an 11/12 where I proxy the 12 rax and lift it later. Another fun trick on maps like Shattered Temple and Metalopolis is to proxy your rax on the lowground down the cliff outside your base, then if your proxy attack doesn't win outright, you can fly it to safety with a smaller marine cut.
3 bunkers to block right outside of the natural on Shakuras and Cloud kingdom is also pretty cool 
I like to go 11/13 with the 2nd proxyed. That way u can basically make it look like a 1 rax fe for a while. Also, faster reinforcements obv. and if u don't kill him (u will almost always at least get the natural if u get the 3 bunkers up), the proxyed rax is great for scouting.
|
On March 02 2012 18:28 KroN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 00:02 KroN wrote:Hi fellow Terrans, i stongly feel the need to play 1-1-1 into Expand into normal Bio (but with 3-4 siege tanks alive from the beginning), i saw this play in !!!WARNING!!! Light today's GSL spoiler+ Show Spoiler +MKP vs Killer G3 today GSL CodeA i think its quite fun, did anyone ever played this some time? thats vaguely what i saw 1-1-1 Reactor on Rax few hellions to scout (optional)Medivac for hellion marine elevator / drop to harass a little Techlab Fac Tachlab Port Raven inbase CC after about 4 tanks take expo, kill incomming observers, Rax on Fac Techlab, scout with Fac maybe another Rax on Port Techlab, get infantrie upgrades transition into normal bio play. somehow i feel this is pretty safe and pretty powerful, or what am i missing. +DT safe +Safe expanding with few siege tanks +Observer proof +potential to do good eco damage early on if toss isnt scoting the drop +you can hit a pretty goood timing/maybe contain at 2base where thefirst colossi come out if he goes that route. +in a later fight 4 siege tanks and a raven should be a pretty efficient addition to zone and soften up? What do you think are the big weaknesses? Do you think this could be a "every TvP" build for me to refine and learn or do you see it fail? Im just bored of the standard bio opening somehow. Edit: Mid-High diamond, this has to be viable in masters to make sense for me to refine and learn Thanks for your opinion! nobody has an opinion on this? i know its a bit to read! Thanks
Saw it now =)
I can give you my opinion.
This build looks kind of like the 3 gate Robo for terran imo.
It's really save and I think it can work if your hellions do some eco dmg.
Of course the toss can not 1 gate expand or he will just die to this.
But I feel like if the toss scouts it and he is on high diamond/masters level he can probably abuse it a little with expanding faster and go down only one tech route while you went for tanks and then bio, so he has faster ups.
But I am gonna give it a try myself I think =)
|
On March 01 2012 22:53 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Two short questions:
What, generally, is your 2 rax build against zerg?
When do you generally get your gas after 1 rax fe in TvP and TvZ? I've mostly been doing this based on scouting, but I'm wondering if people have a system for doing it.
If I do a 2 Rax I go for 11/12 and 12 being the Proxyrax. But I only go 2 rax on Shak
|
Hey guys I'm back with a tvp replay once again. This time it's against a chargelot archon composition.
drop.sc
I do gasless fe he does 1 gate fe, I get 20 supply ahead just because. I push him at the regular medivac timing (maybe I was a tad slow? not sure) I am 32 supply ahead at that point.I take out his double forge with minimal losses.
The game goes on I take my third he takes his third. He suicides his army on my depots after that he retreats I follow him and kind of overcommit towards his zealot warpin. That was probably a mistake.
I then take my third he takes his third quite a bit later then I take my fourth which he never bothers doing.
I am maxed out at a point I see he has no observers I manage to emp his WHOLE army except for 1 full hp archon and 2 with half hp. He does not get a single storm off his 5 HTs.
I somehow end up losing that fight. I don't understand why. I was probably too marauder heavy. I am not sure. Yeah I definitely was too marauder heavy. Also he was 33 to my 22.
So some of my mistakes were;
Overcommiting after his suicide action
Way too marauder heavy
Slacked a bit on upgrades
Some macro mistakes (supply blocks, afk barracks no scvs in my thirds gass)
Too many scvs (84)
But could anyone tell me what would have been the best decision @ 20:48?
And if you're 30 supply ahead pretty much the whole game 60 even at one point just on macro is there nothing you can do to end the game? My army value was way higher then his.
I'm also terribly sorry for the BM this game. I'm trying to quit it but games like these frustrate the heck out of me  . I need to stop being a dick over the internet.
|
I just got raped by DTs... Damnit, a player with great control makes it almost impossible to defend it even though you know it's coming...
You just can't move out and then the Protoss expands everywhere and masses up HTs and chargelots. Meh, I am at a loss for words. I think I could have handled it a lot better but still, what do you do against DT drops from Warp prisms and Storm drops? It's impossible to defend and SCVs always die. Btw, I went for the good ol' 1 rax gasless expand.
|
On March 02 2012 23:03 XiGua wrote:
I just got raped by DTs... Damnit, a player with great control makes it almost impossible to defend it even though you know it's coming...
You just can't move out and then the Protoss expands everywhere and masses up HTs and chargelots. Meh, I am at a loss for words. I think I could have handled it a lot better but still, what do you do against DT drops from Warp prisms and Storm drops? It's impossible to defend and SCVs always die. Btw, I went for the good ol' 1 rax gasless expand.
You have a few options, generally depending on your level.
The first is to keep scouting, keep an scv out on the map (avoiding Xel Naga's) to spot for fast thirds etc
You can try doing drop harass, this will force DT warp-ins or stalkers and task multitasking (something you MUST do vs Protoss), DT's can clean up drops fast and you need to burn scans to kill DT's, however if there are no stalkers and you have good multitasking its good to keep picking up and dropping elsewhere to keep toss on the defensive and warping in and moving his units around.
Fake move outs are good too, push out to go kill his DT, DT's arent cheap and he will have to warp them in to defend, you can sometimes be sneaky and put up a turret near his base out of vision to fall back too (better against bad players)
Saving scans and doing a big push are often effective, if he gets too greedy and you before storm / charge you will crush his face into the ground, and at lower levels toss tends to get really really greedy.
So to sum up basically you have to stop toss doing what he wants, instead of thinking ahhh I can't move out at all, think ok I cant necessarily kill him but what can I do to keep him on his toes, forcing warp in's he doesn't want to do, pushing his multitasking or just going for a big old school kill move with scans before he has crucial tech up are the key's here as if you do just sit back and let toss take an easy third and get his tech up you really are in trouble.
Do also remember that you can be greedy yourself though, its riskier and less likely to work at masters+ I think but maybe if you see DT get faster double ups, expand a bit more, power up your production, get ghosts up and just go for a 200/200 push with fake pushses to keep him macroing up zealot archon (which sucks at 200/200 if you micro right).
|
On March 02 2012 23:25 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 23:03 XiGua wrote:
I just got raped by DTs... Damnit, a player with great control makes it almost impossible to defend it even though you know it's coming...
You just can't move out and then the Protoss expands everywhere and masses up HTs and chargelots. Meh, I am at a loss for words. I think I could have handled it a lot better but still, what do you do against DT drops from Warp prisms and Storm drops? It's impossible to defend and SCVs always die. Btw, I went for the good ol' 1 rax gasless expand. You have a few options, generally depending on your level. The first is to keep scouting, keep an scv out on the map (avoiding Xel Naga's) to spot for fast thirds etc You can try doing drop harass, this will force DT warp-ins or stalkers and task multitasking (something you MUST do vs Protoss), DT's can clean up drops fast and you need to burn scans to kill DT's, however if there are no stalkers and you have good multitasking its good to keep picking up and dropping elsewhere to keep toss on the defensive and warping in and moving his units around. Fake move outs are good too, push out to go kill his DT, DT's arent cheap and he will have to warp them in to defend, you can sometimes be sneaky and put up a turret near his base out of vision to fall back too (better against bad players) Saving scans and doing a big push are often effective, if he gets too greedy and you before storm / charge you will crush his face into the ground, and at lower levels toss tends to get really really greedy. So to sum up basically you have to stop toss doing what he wants, instead of thinking ahhh I can't move out at all, think ok I cant necessarily kill him but what can I do to keep him on his toes, forcing warp in's he doesn't want to do, pushing his multitasking or just going for a big old school kill move with scans before he has crucial tech up are the key's here as if you do just sit back and let toss take an easy third and get his tech up you really are in trouble. Do also remember that you can be greedy yourself though, its riskier and less likely to work at masters+ I think but maybe if you see DT get faster double ups, expand a bit more, power up your production, get ghosts up and just go for a 200/200 push with fake pushses to keep him macroing up zealot archon (which sucks at 200/200 if you micro right).
I am a master player, EU.
Well, I know that I could have defended it much better with a turret in each mineral line. But I didn't expect a warp prism drop... Also, turrets go down damn fast with 4 DTs hitting on it. I feel that DTs are the strongest units against me because I don't know what the heck I can do against it. Anything other than DTs are easily handled...
About powering up production, double ups and expanding more. Well, it was very hard to do that since he had constant harrassment and I just knew that he was powering up at home. It was a time bomb and in the end he just rolled over me with 2-2, chargelots, HTs, immortals and sentries 200/200 against my 109 supply. :S
I just have to work on defending DT drops, now I know why Artosis thinks it is the gayest shit ever. XD
|
On March 02 2012 18:28 KroN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 00:02 KroN wrote:Hi fellow Terrans, i stongly feel the need to play 1-1-1 into Expand into normal Bio (but with 3-4 siege tanks alive from the beginning), i saw this play in !!!WARNING!!! Light today's GSL spoiler+ Show Spoiler +MKP vs Killer G3 today GSL CodeA i think its quite fun, did anyone ever played this some time? thats vaguely what i saw 1-1-1 Reactor on Rax few hellions to scout (optional)Medivac for hellion marine elevator / drop to harass a little Techlab Fac Tachlab Port Raven inbase CC after about 4 tanks take expo, kill incomming observers, Rax on Fac Techlab, scout with Fac maybe another Rax on Port Techlab, get infantrie upgrades transition into normal bio play. somehow i feel this is pretty safe and pretty powerful, or what am i missing. +DT safe +Safe expanding with few siege tanks +Observer proof +potential to do good eco damage early on if toss isnt scoting the drop +you can hit a pretty goood timing/maybe contain at 2base where thefirst colossi come out if he goes that route. +in a later fight 4 siege tanks and a raven should be a pretty efficient addition to zone and soften up? What do you think are the big weaknesses? Do you think this could be a "every TvP" build for me to refine and learn or do you see it fail? Im just bored of the standard bio opening somehow. Edit: Mid-High diamond, this has to be viable in masters to make sense for me to refine and learn Thanks for your opinion! nobody has an opinion on this? i know its a bit to read! Thanks
You're just so uselessly far behind against a standard 20 nex build and you'll also die to a 4gate if unprepared. Seems pretty useless, imo. I would only use it if you see a two gas opening from a protoss, but even then you might as well just 1/1/1 allin.
|
Is he talking about the build MarineKing went to after proxy rax was denied...?
|
Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On March 03 2012 00:16 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 18:28 KroN wrote:On March 02 2012 00:02 KroN wrote:Hi fellow Terrans, i stongly feel the need to play 1-1-1 into Expand into normal Bio (but with 3-4 siege tanks alive from the beginning), i saw this play in !!!WARNING!!! Light today's GSL spoiler+ Show Spoiler +MKP vs Killer G3 today GSL CodeA i think its quite fun, did anyone ever played this some time? thats vaguely what i saw 1-1-1 Reactor on Rax few hellions to scout (optional)Medivac for hellion marine elevator / drop to harass a little Techlab Fac Tachlab Port Raven inbase CC after about 4 tanks take expo, kill incomming observers, Rax on Fac Techlab, scout with Fac maybe another Rax on Port Techlab, get infantrie upgrades transition into normal bio play. somehow i feel this is pretty safe and pretty powerful, or what am i missing. +DT safe +Safe expanding with few siege tanks +Observer proof +potential to do good eco damage early on if toss isnt scoting the drop +you can hit a pretty goood timing/maybe contain at 2base where thefirst colossi come out if he goes that route. +in a later fight 4 siege tanks and a raven should be a pretty efficient addition to zone and soften up? What do you think are the big weaknesses? Do you think this could be a "every TvP" build for me to refine and learn or do you see it fail? Im just bored of the standard bio opening somehow. Edit: Mid-High diamond, this has to be viable in masters to make sense for me to refine and learn Thanks for your opinion! nobody has an opinion on this? i know its a bit to read! Thanks You're just so uselessly far behind against a standard 20 nex build and you'll also die to a 4gate if unprepared. Seems pretty useless, imo. I would only use it if you see a two gas opening from a protoss, but even then you might as well just 1/1/1 allin.
On March 03 2012 03:08 Huggerz wrote:
Is he talking about the build MarineKing went to after proxy rax was denied...?
Yeah so basically what MKP did here was fail to proxy a rax, then did a pretty normal 1-1-1. he knew that Killer wasn't doing a 15 nexus. He made some hellions and a dropship to make up for his delayed 2nd gas. Killer happened to be going for a 3 gate Blink all in which is prfoundly unuseful against 1-1-1 due to the low economy nature of the build.
This wasn't a build order form MKP, but rather, him salvaging a pretty bad situation with his excellent mechanics and decisionmaking. It takes a special guy to fail to proxy a rax, then badass his way back into the game. If killer had done a 1 gate FE he would have brutally crushed MKP's slow expand-- but because they expanded at basically the same time, and killer was very stalker heavy against a marine/tank composition, and wasn't able to get Colossi up in time, MKP won.
This was a case of MKP being a strong player with a good improvisation out of a failed proxy attack, and Killer making the questionable decision of going for big stalker play against a slow-expanding, fast-teching terran. 1-1-1s are good, and Ravens are good against a stalker-heavy protoss in this sort of early game situation, but I wouldn't base my build specifically around this.
|
Mech TvP.....
I know the Immobility of mech is such a huge issue, and P can exploit that even more with...blink stalkers around the map harassing etc.
Now, I know people will say to put missile turrets, sensor tower and PF. I use sensor tower in my every game, its good, but still, when they blink up, its all over. PF? I think PF is such a huge investment in mid-game when they already have blink stalkers.
If this is late game then yes, It is ok, I can put PF everywhere. But this is only mid game, so how exactly do yuo stop blink stalkers?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
