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Krooked
A lot of excellent play there, very sensible, very patient, you get your ghosts nice and early.
@ 21:50 You EMP his whole army, kill all his colossi, and then you just let him retreat......
FFS stim and chase him down, that's the most vulnerable he is ever going to be, don't waste it.
Twice in the game you chase his army into a corner, but then you can't engage up the ramp. There is no point in trying to contain his army like this, it gains you nothing. Instead go and attack where his army isn't.
At 23:30 I would have just gone and trashed his 3rd rather then chase his army. Oh and as soon as you realise he has no colossi then land your vikings ASAP.
You make loads of orbitals, which is great, but the whole point of that should be to increase your army max by saccing SCV, you don't do this and in fact have 11 scv idle.
You don't do any drops which is a mistake in my opinion, I can understand that you don't do any early on when he is expecting it and it is relatively easy for him to defend, but later on when he is on 4+ bases, you should definitely be dropping. You seem blissfully unaware of his 4th base. As a rule of thumb always assume that he is on the same number of bases as you, unless you know otherwise.
Oh and going back to the beginning, you scout the nexus first and then place a bunker? You have no need of a bunker, this only delays your 4 rax pressure. You do good damage, but you could have done more, never try to retreat vs stalkers, at least try to finish off the weakened one, or suicide against probes. Try and fight in the mineral line so he can't kite you without pulling all his scv off mining.
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Now that Snipe is only for sniping Infestors, how am I supposed to win late game TvZ? Do a bazillion marine drops all over his fringe expos and hope he leaves the game?
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On February 22 2012 08:06 Zombo Joe wrote:
Now that Snipe is only for sniping Infestors, how am I supposed to win late game TvZ? Do a bazillion marine drops all over his fringe expos and hope he leaves the game?
I'd say you're mostly gonna have to rely on a combination of ghosts backed up by vikings and marauders to deal with the zerg T3 switches nowadays. this is a bigger question than just for this thread, though-- go see if there's a thread dedicated to lategame TvZ post-patch, and there should be some detailed advice there.
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On February 22 2012 07:50 Willzzz wrote:
Krooked
A lot of excellent play there, very sensible, very patient, you get your ghosts nice and early.
@ 21:50 You EMP his whole army, kill all his colossi, and then you just let him retreat......
FFS stim and chase him down, that's the most vulnerable he is ever going to be, don't waste it.
Twice in the game you chase his army into a corner, but then you can't engage up the ramp. There is no point in trying to contain his army like this, it gains you nothing. Instead go and attack where his army isn't.
At 23:30 I would have just gone and trashed his 3rd rather then chase his army. Oh and as soon as you realise he has no colossi then land your vikings ASAP.
You make loads of orbitals, which is great, but the whole point of that should be to increase your army max by saccing SCV, you don't do this and in fact have 11 scv idle.
You don't do any drops which is a mistake in my opinion, I can understand that you don't do any early on when he is expecting it and it is relatively easy for him to defend, but later on when he is on 4+ bases, you should definitely be dropping. You seem blissfully unaware of his 4th base. As a rule of thumb always assume that he is on the same number of bases as you, unless you know otherwise.
Oh and going back to the beginning, you scout the nexus first and then place a bunker? You have no need of a bunker, this only delays your 4 rax pressure. You do good damage, but you could have done more, never try to retreat vs stalkers, at least try to finish off the weakened one, or suicide against probes. Try and fight in the mineral line so he can't kite you without pulling all his scv off mining.
Thanks a lot. The bunker was just muscle memory, as soon as I planted it I thought "thats stupid he can't be chronoing out zealot/stalker", but I figured I might need it later anyways. The thought behind containing him was basically "well if he is maxed out and tries running down this ramp then I will crush his army so hard that I can just a-move him 4 teh win". Not my proudest moment in starcraft. I actually load up some drops but he showed some units so I brought them back (as in I didn't unbind the drops and therefore called them back when moving my army).
I have this feeling that I can't afford to cut down on my army by dropping, because it is so hard edging out a win as it is. Any thoughts on how many units I can cut off? Also, when do I know when I have a decisive advantage? I often find that I am too scared to place my orbitals around because I don't want to leave my base and therefore making me voulnerable to counter attacks. As in, if he attacks my outlying expo's, I can't defend them. Should I just be mass expanding and hope he doesn't attack them or how should I do this? I often find planetarys great against pylon zealot warpins, but not the whole protoss army. How should I react if he brings his whole army to one of my expos? Won't I be engaging in a base trade if I attack his main/expo's? I don't really want basetrades.
In any way, thanks for the feedback. I also watched the GuMiho vs San replay you linked, incredible play from gumibear. Which brings me to another question: Marauders or marines? I have found more marines to be succesfull because of their DPS, and it often saves me from the mass zealot warpin. But I am obviously very weak against storms/colossi. I see a lot of pro gamers go marauder heavy, then lastshadow tells me to go marine heavy. is there a set in stone answer to this?
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what to do against mass mutas in TvZ if i'm going mech?
i had like 6-7 Thors with +1 and kill him so much with my first push and then he just build tons of mutas and magic box every thor.
i spread them a little bit for defence because i think clustering is not a good idea.
i would post the replay but i don't have it anymore. What can / should i do in general?
I have no clue about this and don't want to loose against this again
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Get repairing scvs, and cluster your hellions around your thors to absorb glaive wurm bounces. Use turrets to defend at home during your push.
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Well I think you could have easily cut 10 SCV and not even noticed the slight drop in income (diminishing returns), especially as it is the same mineral cost as a full medivac anyway. Even a single medivac can do so much damage, firstly the direct damage, but also forcing him to multi tasks and leave units behind, build cannons etc. Plus a dropship is a handy scout as well.
I think your marine/marauder mix was fine, don't get too hung up on the "ideal" mix, you can never go far wrong with a 50/50 supply mix. Loved your huge number of ghosts, but when cloaking ahead only send 1-2 at a time, I'm pretty sure lastshadow said this too.
Ideally you want to force a situation where he has to attack into you, but to do this you have to create a threat that he must react to. This threat could be say a double drop while his army is out of position, normally he will attack into you hoping that the units away from your main army will cause you to lose, but your defensive positioning and defensive EMPs should more than match that disadvantage.
I really think that mass expanding is not a good idea, you don't want to be having a remaxing battle with your opponent, warpgates are so strong. You want to be in a situation where you have a decisive battle and you still have a lot left over. Once your opponent has 3-4 bases depending on map you can abuse your mobility and pull him all over the place, try to be the aggressor so that you dictate the flow, but don't commit to an actual fight unless your positioning is better.
Make him feel that he has no option other than to engage you at an unfavourable location.
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maybe you can try to build some marines and group them together with your thor (maybe just out of 1rax is enough)?
They should give you better chances against mutas and should still be in sufficient small numbers that banelings won't be too effective (assuming the opponent even goes for them).
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United States4991 Posts
On February 22 2012 08:39 saaaa wrote:
what to do against mass mutas in TvZ if i'm going mech?
i had like 6-7 Thors with +1 and kill him so much with my first push and then he just build tons of mutas and magic box every thor.
i spread them a little bit for defence because i think clustering is not a good idea.
i would post the replay but i don't have it anymore. What can / should i do in general?
I have no clue about this and don't want to loose against this again
Try to get +2 weapons before fighting large numbers of Mutas - the number of hits reduction to kill a Mutalisk can help quite a bit. Make sure you have SCVs to repair. If you're doing a slowish push, then turrets with your army help a ton. They're almost like having marines (they're even actually better DPS/cost-wise, and they don't die very quickly to banelings; of course, they are immobile, so they're only useful if you can have them in a place where he'll want to engage...)
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On February 22 2012 08:16 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 08:06 Zombo Joe wrote:
Now that Snipe is only for sniping Infestors, how am I supposed to win late game TvZ? Do a bazillion marine drops all over his fringe expos and hope he leaves the game? I'd say you're mostly gonna have to rely on a combination of ghosts backed up by vikings and marauders to deal with the zerg T3 switches nowadays. this is a bigger question than just for this thread, though-- go see if there's a thread dedicated to lategame TvZ post-patch, and there should be some detailed advice there.
With all the terran nerfs blizzard is forcing my hand to do 2 base allins every game, I may be inadvertently be increasing terran winrates which will lead to even more nerfs. Every time I find a new cool style blizzard nerfs it to the ground 
I guess instead of relying on snipe I'll have to use ghosts for mass nuke instead while I liquidate my marine count with drops so I can get more ghosts, ravens and vikings? With the air superiority I can pick off all overseers, EMP then snipe all his Infestors, which will make the broodlords easy pickings. The problem is dealing with mass Ultralisk which can only be answered with a ton of marauders.
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I always get to this point where i snipe the zergs third and i start mine before his gets restarted. What im having trouble with is what to do AFTER that, like after i secure my third, what should be the next step? Do another attack on his 4th / 3rd or ? Im really not sure how to play the game out after i secure my third.
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As a fairly new terran changing from protoss, can anybody recommend some two base and one base all ins for TvP and TvZ?
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On February 22 2012 10:22 nytz wrote:
Can anybody recommend some two base and one base all ins for TvP and TvZ?
One of the strongest TvP 1base All-ins is the
3 rax marine/scv all-in: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517
Another solid TvP All-in, notorious for its success all the way up through the professional level is the dreaded 1-1-1.
If you're looking for a 2-base all in I recommend:
Warden's Death Ball TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753
Yen's Marine Tank Banshee: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299607
For TvZ there are two classics:
Marauder/Hellion All-in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=310757
11/11 marine/scv All-in  Liquipedia Guide
If you're feeling for something a bit more elegant you should check out my Thorship guide
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302050
Hope this helps.
On February 22 2012 09:48 Picklebread wrote:
I always get to this point where i snipe the zergs third and i start mine before his gets restarted. What im having trouble with is what to do AFTER that, like after i secure my third, what should be the next step? Do another attack on his 4th / 3rd or ? Im really not sure how to play the game out after i secure my third.
Once your third is secured and you're on 3 base infrastructure, you should use drops to try to deal damage (and try to ward off his mutalisk harass). Assuming he's going for a normal ling/bling/muta composition and you got your third up before him, you should be able to launch a strong timing attack before he's really able to benefit from his third base, maybe with 2/2 and +1 vehicle (to 1-shot armored lings).
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The answer to this thread: MARINES AND SIEGE TANKS BITCHES
User was warned for this post
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On February 22 2012 08:39 saaaa wrote:
what to do against mass mutas in TvZ if i'm going mech?
i had like 6-7 Thors with +1 and kill him so much with my first push and then he just build tons of mutas and magic box every thor.
i spread them a little bit for defence because i think clustering is not a good idea.
i would post the replay but i don't have it anymore. What can / should i do in general?
I have no clue about this and don't want to loose against this again
chances are he had upgrades and you didn't (beyond +1 attack), and your thors were alone. put more units with your thors to absorb damage, bring some scvs, and if you desperately need to, move your thors a bit to force the mutas to re-clump up. i was told once that upgrades turn thors from a standard deterrent to an absolute hell monster against mutas, and it turns out, they do.
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yesterday, after winning 7 of my last 10 games, I lost 3 games in a row. I would really appreciate some help, especially with this game.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=255128#/replay_overview
Possible Reasons for losing: worse macro then my opponent, caught with all my tanks unsieged, not prepared for a contain. I thought i was good with a walloff and 2 bunkers,but I just couldn't get out of my natural.
However, I still don't know how to break a contain right outside my natural. Help would really be apreciated:
BIG DISCLAIMER: I am bronze, and I know my macro sucks, and some general replay analysis would be very welcome, but macro is something I am working on currently (you should see how it was 1 month ago) and I could really use the most help with breaking the contain. However, if anyone could please help me with my awful macro, I would be indebted to them for life.
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Hi, I've been playing a lot of mech at the low diamond level in TvZ lately.
If I get past the roach/bling timings they so often do of 2 base, I feel like I'm in complete control of the game. And I often manage to contain them down to 3 bases. I often manage to just end the game at this point.
But somehow they often manage to get this massive bl/infestor army out, off just 3/4 bases. And I have big problems dealing with this. Even tho I manage to split my vikings well, infestors just seems so ridiculous to vikings. And combined with a ton of broods and corruptors, I rarely manage to deal well with this composition. I've tried going very thor heavy, and it helps out quite abit specially with cleaning out corruptors, but they still seem to win most fights. And what annoys me the most is that they some times do all this of 3 base??
How do you guys deal with this composition when playing mech? Any tips, hints or tricks would be very appriciated : )
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Presumably if they are getting all these high gas units off just three base, they are skimping a lot on units earlier in the game. I suspect you are missing a timing earlier in the game where you could have done big damage. Replays would help.
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This will sound silly but i encounter this a lot even in low master.
What do you do against a protoss who 1gate expand / nexus first with a ridiculously fast forge and place some canon at his entrance ?
I just encountered a Toss on Shakuras who did : Nexus, gateway forge 3 canon at his ramp then crazy tech with only a handfull of unit.
By 10min he had 7 gates up, cgarge finish, two forge upgrading, a robo and templar archive just started.
Am i too scared of canons ? I feel i can't touch 3 canon before medivac and stim, dunno if it's right.
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On February 22 2012 10:51 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 08:39 saaaa wrote:
what to do against mass mutas in TvZ if i'm going mech?
i had like 6-7 Thors with +1 and kill him so much with my first push and then he just build tons of mutas and magic box every thor.
i spread them a little bit for defence because i think clustering is not a good idea.
i would post the replay but i don't have it anymore. What can / should i do in general?
I have no clue about this and don't want to loose against this again chances are he had upgrades and you didn't (beyond +1 attack), and your thors were alone. put more units with your thors to absorb damage, bring some scvs, and if you desperately need to, move your thors a bit to force the mutas to re-clump up. i was told once that upgrades turn thors from a standard deterrent to an absolute hell monster against mutas, and it turns out, they do.
ok thx i may be that i was behind in upgrades but i cant check it anymore..but i will remember this in the future
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EPT
