EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 7
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 06:27 DuckS wrote: To add to Cecil, you only want to move out vs Roach compositions. Your speed isn't terrible and you can ff if you get into some trouble. Not the same vs bling/infestor tech - too dangerous for little gain (and they're probably pumping units anyways so moving out is worthless). Just turtle and go for blink with colo. That's actually not quite true. Until drops are available, Sentry/Stalker/Zealot will beat Ling/Bling. The statement "only move out vs roach" is just plain false however. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
On August 06 2011 06:42 CecilSunkure wrote: That's actually not quite true. Until drops are available, Sentry/Stalker/Zealot will beat Ling/Bling. The statement "only move out vs roach" is just plain false however. Really? What's your definition of a poke? I've had pretty bad experiences with applying pressure vs compositions that aren't just roach. I could be wrong, I guess. i'll just delete the post | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On August 06 2011 06:49 DuckS wrote: Really? What's your definition of a poke? I've had pretty bad experiences with applying pressure vs compositions that aren't just roach. I could be wrong, I guess. i'll just delete the post In general, any problems pushing out versus lings is caused by inadequate forcefields. Huk looks comfortable pushing out of his base with 3 sentries and a zealot. If you have good forcefields, you can wall off your sentries and trap lings that will just die to your zealot and can't run away. If you can't forcefield properly, you'll die a whole lot doing this (I'm right there with you) but that doesn't mean you should stop trying and learning how to do it correctly. It can be done! | ||
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
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Cubbieblue66
95 Posts
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Plutonik
Canada329 Posts
 can anybody throw me a build order or some advice/ tips, thanks! | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
what do you do if your timing push gets scouted for example blink push. do you just alter your gameplay and transition into a more macro oriented playstyle whlie harassing with said unit? | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On August 06 2011 02:14 scorch- wrote: This depends entirely on your composition and your opponent's. If you're going a blink build against zerg and he is heavy lings while getting infestors or mutas, armor is going to be better than attack when it comes to upgrades. If he's roach-heavy and you went blink, +attack is going to be the standard. In general, +armor gets more useful as the opponent's Rate of Fire increases. +attack gets better as your attacks' RoF increases. There are certain +attack and +armor "breakpoints" that swing in favor of an upgrade in a matchup/composition by lowering the number of attacks to kill an enemy unit or increasing the number of attacks required to kill one of your units. For instance, if +armor increases the number of immortal shots required to kill a stalker (I know 3 immortals kills a stalker in 1shot, but I'm not sure if +armor changes that), upgrading +armor in a blink build versus a robo build might make your aggression much stronger as a group of 3 immortals would use 2 volleys to kill each stalker (wasting a ton of overkill damage). The +1 attack letting zealots 2shot zerglings example is one that I know is true, sorry if the +armor stalker vs immortal one isn't! while what you say is mathematically true in a nonmoving engagement, i still favor + attack against ling compositions because generally you are blinking before you take any hull damage. infestor FG also doesn't get affected by armor. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
Replay: http://drop.sc/24685 | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13430 Posts
On August 06 2011 06:49 DuckS wrote: Really? What's your definition of a poke? I've had pretty bad experiences with applying pressure vs compositions that aren't just roach. I could be wrong, I guess. i'll just delete the post The past few days have taught me that this is true so long as you babysit the army. If you dont micro right and you get surrounded by the lings you are instantly done. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On August 05 2011 15:27 FiWiFaKi wrote: A good build order for it is: 9 pylon 14 forge 15 cannon 17 nexus 18 gateway 18 pylon Switch the order of the cannon and nexus depending what build he goes for, hatch first or 14gas/14pool on a large map allows you to get a nexus first. Now the tricky part is being able to survive the possible roach all-in, baneling bust, or other drop play with investing minimal amounts into your defence, which is very hard to do due to the low possibility of scouting while doing forge fes. But you seem to be mainly asking what to do after you survive. A very good build to go for is a 6-8 gateway push with upgrades, usually 1/1, blink is also an added possibility. An aggressive build is very necessary because going something like fast collosis wont allow you to put any pressure on the zerg and he will easily be able to mass a 70 drone 3 base economy uncontested. Hence why every fast expand involves a fast gateway push or a quick VR to delay the third for as long as possible. It is hard to determine how all-in you should go with the gateway push, but taking your third base while pushing out and sitting on 45 probes is a decent transition. Having good upgrades and a twilight already up leaves a good window to tech up into templar and archons, and the right mix of chargelot, blink stalker, archon, and high templar will do good against any zerg composition. 14 is to late on the forge, I think you need to get it on 12 or 13 to be 100% safe O_o. | ||
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FistofKhala
United States35 Posts
I think I'm hitting the timing too late....can someone help me out here? (diamond toss so I still suck >.<) | ||
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:26 dreamsmasher wrote: If your 'tech' gets scouted what do you typically do (vs Z). I try to be careful with scouting the perimeter of my base, but sometimes you get scouted on your stargate tech or blink/DT tech. in these cases do you a) cancel your tech (assuming you just started it after you kill off their scout b) proceed as if nothing has happened. what do you do if your timing push gets scouted for example blink push. do you just alter your gameplay and transition into a more macro oriented playstyle whlie harassing with said unit? This is a bit general and the answer can vary depending on the exact situation. In most cases you should be aiming to hit specific timings with your tech in PvZ, not go for tech in the blind hope it isn't spotted. In that case, its clear that even with your tech being scouted you should continue with it because you can still do damage/force a response because of the timing you are hitting. For instance, you can force Hydralisks with the purpose of transitioning to Colossus even if your Stargate gets scouted - you aren't just trying to get out a random void ray and hoping to kill him because he has no clue what he's doing. You are looking to force a response. To use DTs an example, you can apply pressure and contain a Zerg to two bases while safely securing your own expo with very few units. Regardless of scouting, you are exploiting a timing where Zerg detection limits his response and allows you to gain your advantage no matter what. ---- Your question about Blink pushes is pretty tough for me to answer. There are some situations where you should go for it, and some where it might not be wise. In general, you should be following builds that do OK even when scouted (for instance, 6 gate blink with an obs and +1 instead of 6/7 gate blink with no obs and +2). Even if you aren't, a lot of the times you get further behind by suddenly veering off your build and doing something you aren't prepared for. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 14:25 FistofKhala wrote: Can someone tell me the proper build order for a 3g blink stalker opening (or 4g tho I would use that as a transition) in PvP? Everytime I try it I get stomped because (assuming he goes robo) he has way too many zlots, a coupla sentries, some stalks, and a few immortals waiting for me to arrive. I dont have enough blink stalks to snipe both his immortals in time before his zlots smash my stalks. I think I'm hitting the timing too late....can someone help me out here? (diamond toss so I still suck >.<) If you could kill someone with a fast Blink going for Immortals like that, consistently, then everyone would be opening Blink. | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On August 06 2011 05:13 mahi29 wrote: This thread is amazing  Couple questions: 1. So for PvZ, I do 3G expand and people often say that as toss, you have to move your army around and what not to force the zerg into making units rather than drones. However, when I do this, half the time, my army gets mobbed by mass lings and that often is game-ending for me. Should I not bother moving out with such a sentry-heavy force? 2. Completely unrelated, if I hold off an early pool against Z (say 6-9 pool) with a forge, a gateway and a cannon or two, whats the correct followup. I mean, I should be ahead somewhat so how do I capitalize on that. I feel turning it into a macro game just gives zerg a chance to come back. Whats the correct response? Thanks You're welcome. Glad this thread has helped people | ||
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LastLemming
United States38 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 06 2011 14:20 ZeromuS wrote: The past few days have taught me that this is true so long as you babysit the army. If you dont micro right and you get surrounded by the lings you are instantly done. Yea I'll have to agree with most people here... "only move out vs roach" is not 100% true but it is indeed pretty dangerous moving out if your opponent just gets a bunch of speedlings. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 07 2011 10:58 LastLemming wrote: Hey guys I have a questions about late game PvP if both players opened robo. I know its rare that the match up gets to this point but assume both players have a relatively equal economies off 3 bases. What kind of 200/200 composition is ideal? Both players have a large amount of collo. I feel that collo archon is best composition because the archons tank the damage, the twilight opens up more ups and it opens dt tech for harassment. This is mainly theory crafting because I have so little practice in the late game for PvP. Does anyone with more expertise in this scenario have any advice? Also the later PvP goes it begins to feel like TvT marine tank viking battle in the sense the person who attacks is at a disadvantage because concaved collo are so much more powerful than that ball of collo. The only thing I can think of to stay active is getting blink eventually and harassing, but I feel the more stalkers one has in the final engagement the worse off they are because that supply would be better spend on archons/zealots/collo. Yes, once you get to mid game PvP the only thing that matters is # of colossus. You really shouldn't be getting any additional gateway units at all except for right before an engagement and during engagements/reinforcing. Archons in my experience as an addition to a colo army against another colo army is a waste. Just get more colossus (2-3 robo). The only other alternative is to start getting voids. Especially if you can hide your stargates and avoid an engagement until you can amass a few, your ideal late game PvP army is just mass void rays with a few colo or whatever leftover colo you have. It's a gamble (hoping that your opponent doesn't attack when you're just starting to get voids) though. | ||
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