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On September 04 2011 07:17 happyness wrote:
What's the best way to deal with a cannon rush in PvP? When you see them throw down that pylon should you pull off ALL of your probes? And should you throw a forge up yourself when they get the pylon in a good position?
Thanks. Any replays would be appreciated
I believe its 3-4 probes per cannon and pylon that are being built. If cannons are going to finish throw down a forge yourself and just prevent their cannons from coming closer to your buildings/etc
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On September 04 2011 07:17 happyness wrote:
What's the best way to deal with a cannon rush in PvP? When you see them throw down that pylon should you pull off ALL of your probes? And should you throw a forge up yourself when they get the pylon in a good position?
Thanks. Any replays would be appreciated
If I catch it early I can usually just put some probes onto the constructing buildings while chronoing out Zealots. It's important to not fall behind in Core tech during the rush however, as if he delays you enough with the cannons you'll lose to the followup allin from Warpgates.
Most of the time I stop it by getting down a forge + cannon. The cannon acts as zone control and won't allow any other cannons to placed within its range.
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On Antiga Shipyard when I get a quick natural in PvZ and go stargate, I have been really digging getting a mothership for defence and taking a quick 3rd (since its such a great defensible position). The Mothership is a Baoss on Defense and for a while it can let you hide your unit composition, its even allowed me to go straight to Carriers on 3 base, when the Zerg reacts to your Stargate with Hydras.
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I played a PvT on Shakuras, where the Terran went for and early expand with 2base Marines, Raven, Thor, BFH and Ghost -.-
I could explain, but It's easier to just see the replay. Any tips on how to break this? I feel like if I take another expo, he'll just scout it and go push and kill me.
http://replayfu.com/r/WSBKJh
Void Rays and Chargelots + HT for feedback seems like a possibility..
In advance, thanks.
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I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
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On September 04 2011 17:21 iBRomano wrote:
I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
In theory, 1gate FE should let you do all that, but I'll let one of the blues really tell you how as I'm only plat.
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On September 04 2011 17:21 iBRomano wrote:
I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
3 gate expo is pretty outdated in pvt. I really suggest you go a 1 gate FE or 1 gate robo FE. Although, with a 3 gate expo, i would think u should be able to hold 3 rax pressure. Are you making enough sentries to use FF to defend ur ramp / cut army in half?
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 04 2011 17:38 recklessfire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 17:21 iBRomano wrote:
I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
3 gate expo is pretty outdated in pvt. I really suggest you go a 1 gate FE or 1 gate robo FE. Although, with a 3 gate expo, i would think u should be able to hold 3 rax pressure. Are you making enough sentries to use FF to defend ur ramp / cut army in half?
I don't agree. If terran screws up and lets you see that he's opening bio (ie you see 2 rax or a tech lab on his first rax), then 3gate exp is still the best way to open; plus, 1gate fe isn't exactly safe if the rush distance is too short and you don't have a good read on what he's doing.
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United Kingdom2576 Posts
On September 02 2011 03:32 headbus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 02:57 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
What do I do against Marine/Tank in TvP?
I'm in Silver and people do a lot of dumb crap.. like mass banshees or marine/tank in PvT :/ I had collossus/a few archons/mass zealots/some stalkers/sentry/2 immortals. I thought I'd completely countered it but my army got kinda rolled.
Storm maybe? I didn't engage very well (stalkers at front) so maybe its just a matter of positioning Protoss have endless amounts of counters to marine tank. Collosus Zealot Blink/chargelot gateway armies Archon/Storm/Chargelot The key to beating marine tank is purely in the engagement. Try to minimize seige tank splash, minimize the amount of trapped zealots. Don't just engage from one angle and hope for the best, use a couple zealots/archons to flank him. Try to engage when the tanks are out of position or moving. Also, prioritize what you are focusing. If I had a hefty blink stalker army with handfuls of archons/HT's. I'd be primarily worried about getting rid of the tank count, as blink stalkers / HT's/archons deal with marines pretty easily. Whereas if I was zealot collosus, its very hard for the seige tanks to take an agressive position against the long range of a collosus without marines there to protect them or give vision. So I would primarily focus the marine ball. The last thing is either commit to an engagement, or don't. Its a fatal flaw to poke in and out of a seige line trying to find a hole, attack on a warpin so you have an influx of units and if you have committed then stick to it. GL in the future.
Thank you very much 
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On September 04 2011 17:21 iBRomano wrote:
I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
Ineed a faster expansion would be better for this matchup, and probably vs 3rax as well as it allows you to both defend and have a superior economy. This in turn will let you win the game as you contain him in his main for far too long. What I used to do to defend this is if I scout marauders, I get 4 warpgates asap after the expansion is building. This will let you have more of an army than him after a few warp ins. However his attack will most likely not let you get that army advantage so you will have to pull probes which is just fine. Even if you lose like 10 probes that will be fine as you have an expansion and he cut workers.
The information I wrote is kind of out dated now as no one is 3raxing anymore and I haven't encountered it in forever. Here's a link to the guide though: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887
As for theory crafting, I think 3 gates can hold it as stim was nerfed since this guide was written. And after next patch when it takes an additional 5 seconds to construct a barracks it will probably be even easier (those extra seconds may mean another warp in, depending on distances).
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How can I tell whether a 2rax or a 3rax is coming?
Edit: From a 1gate FE perspective.
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Against a 1/1/1, is it too late to expand when you see the 1/1/1 with an observer after going 1 gate robo, or is it feasible?
Plat toss.
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On September 04 2011 19:12 GeorgeTheGorge wrote:
How can I tell whether a 2rax or a 3rax is coming?
Edit: From a 1gate FE perspective.
You can't really scout it if the terran walls but here's a few thing to look for:
3rax:
If you see marauders at the top of the ramp when the stalker arrives, he could potentially be 3raxing you. A concussive shell pressure build doesn't rule out the 3rax.
2rax:
If you scout about 5 marines when the stalker arrives he probably has a reactor, which means he could either be 2raxing or doing a 1-1-1. This one is really problematic as they require different reactions. However if you see a bunker go down you can be sure it's not a 2rax (unless your opponent is playing mind games, but this will slow down the actual attack.
On September 04 2011 21:49 danakaz wrote:
Against a 1/1/1, is it too late to expand when you see the 1/1/1 with an observer after going 1 gate robo, or is it feasible?
Plat toss.
You want to expand asap. This means when you can afford it while not cutting production (should be around 35-40 food for 1gate robo FE iirc). So when you see the 1-1-1 you don't have to cancel. However if you notice it's not a 1-1-1 and some other aggressive build you can't hold, just cancel the nexus and throw down one or two more gateways. This will keep you safe and most likely ahead economically if the terran cut SCVs in order for the aggression to break your natural. In case of this scenario, just warp in some more units and then re-expand.
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On September 04 2011 17:21 iBRomano wrote:
I'm kind of tight on time as of now so I haven't searched this thread or the TL forums for a guide, but I found that I keep losing my PvTs to 3 rax pushes with or without the addition of SCVs. I like to do the 3 gate expand, which is just a standard PvX build that I've become accustomed to. Is there a build that can allow for a decently fast expand and for a decent defense so I can hold off these annoying marine marauder stim/conc pushes?
You should have no trouble holding off 2/3 rax pushes when you 3 gate expand with 2 gas. Using force fields to stop the terran kiting and not skipping units will net you a great result against rax aggression. Make sure you aren't light on zealots though, they're the ones that bring the hurt combined with GA.
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On September 04 2011 22:59 flashbacK wrote:
You should have no trouble holding off 2/3 rax pushes when you 3 gate expand with 2 gas. Using force fields to stop the terran kiting and not skipping units will net you a great result against rax aggression. Make sure you aren't light on zealots though, they're the ones that bring the hurt combined with GA.
Yes that is right... But it will put you behind if the terran fast expands. The reason you 3gate 2gas is because you want to pressure while expanding, to contain the terran usually. To use the aggression to it's full potential you would normally want high numbers of sentry stalker. The stalkers can take down both marines and marauders while being kept safe by the guardian shield and forcefields, the forcefields will also help destroying bunkers. Of course zealots are good as tanks and dps as well, you should have some mixed in.
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On September 04 2011 22:17 Latedi wrote:You want to expand asap. This means when you can afford it while not cutting production (should be around 35-40 food for 1gate robo FE iirc). So when you see the 1-1-1 you don't have to cancel. However if you notice it's not a 1-1-1 and some other aggressive build you can't hold, just cancel the nexus and throw down one or two more gateways. This will keep you safe and most likely ahead economically if the terran cut SCVs in order for the aggression to break your natural. In case of this scenario, just warp in some more units and then re-expand.
Okay, thanks will try that out. If it doesn't give me immediately 100 % win rate against terran, prepare to take the fall. 
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Hey there, I'm looking for a couple of build:
vT:
1 gate expand (MC), into robo or mass gates.
vP:
a safe build that gets 2/3 Immortals fast.
vZ:
2 gate expand (MC), stargate expand
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Does anyone have an optimized version of 3 gate expand vs terran? I'm curious about the chronoboost allocation and timings.
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On September 04 2011 23:54 danakaz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 22:17 Latedi wrote:You want to expand asap. This means when you can afford it while not cutting production (should be around 35-40 food for 1gate robo FE iirc). So when you see the 1-1-1 you don't have to cancel. However if you notice it's not a 1-1-1 and some other aggressive build you can't hold, just cancel the nexus and throw down one or two more gateways. This will keep you safe and most likely ahead economically if the terran cut SCVs in order for the aggression to break your natural. In case of this scenario, just warp in some more units and then re-expand. Okay, thanks will try that out. If it doesn't give me immediately 100 % win rate against terran, prepare to take the fall.
Aaw man that's unfair 
For the PvP, I think a gate robo gate build could be good. They are basically created to be anti 4gate builds and with an early robo pumping immortals I think the number of 2 or 3 could be reached farily quickly assuming that none die. Here's a build I used to go with almost every game for a long time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191430 but it's outdated now. But even so the order of when to get things should be enough to use it correctly.
I am not sure about the point of getting many immortals as fast as possible though, I think going blink stalker immortal or teching colossus would be a wiser decision.
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EPT
