On September 02 2011 06:34 CecilSunkure wrote: Good tip, I was going to say the same thing. If you 1 Gate FE, get your 3 Gates laid down, then the robo. I believe I like to go Gate Stalker Nexus Gate Gate Stalker Assimilator Robo. I try to make sure I can have an obs out by 7:30. I usually then get 2 Observers out, and depending on what the Terran does an Immortal or not before the Support Bay.
Also, seeing that a hellion drop is coming is the best way to prevent it from doing damage. Have the sides of the map in-vision.
don't you instalose against 111 with such timing on robo? Especially if you get 2 obs. When the push comes you will hardly a single immortal out, right?
My question: what is the ideal composition against terran player who goes mech (mostly tanks + BFHs). I love "normal" PvT against bio where I go for masslots+sentries+HTs with fast upgrades and lots of gateways but I have no clue what to do when opponents goes mech. With BFH zealots are totally useless, stalkers die easily to tanks, storm doesn't work much against mech.. should I go for some tripple robo immortal production? I hope you won't tell me to go VRs because I find it extremely one trick ponyish.
Immortals don't work unless you have already thinned out his Tank count, Hellions will tear off your shields. A few are useful with your Gateway army though.
Edit: I was unclear, Immortals en masse aren't a good idea. You need to take out pieces of the army so that his supporting units cant take the shields off your Immortals, or thin out his tanks so that your Gateway can push through what's left.
Stargate play is the way to go. (Edit: Against heavy mech, to the exclusion of significant Barracks units and air support, which is what I interpreted your post to mean) You don't have to turn it into some kind of Void Ray gimmick though, Phoenix harass forces missile turrets and further compromise his Marine count (that was already compromised for Hellions) and can lift Hellions & Tanks when the battle comes. A few Void Rays, given the chance to charge up, can knock down enough Tanks and Thors to let your Gateway units sweep the rest. Don't engage with your Gateway army unless you can catch him unsieged or you have killed enough tanks. Can't really tell you what 'enough' is, that comes with experience.
Its tough because you have to play very active, harass well without losing units and always be threatening with your main army just out of range, so he can't get a free stroll over to your base and acquire the Siege-up he wants without resistance. That said, mech armies take a long time to replenish, so if you can get one good engagement, the game is entirely in your hands.
On September 01 2011 11:26 dama wrote: Do you scout after pylon or after gateway? Are there situations/matchups/maps where one is preferred over the other?
9 scout PvZ for 6 pool defense. Other matchups either 12 or 13 scout depending on preference.
On September 01 2011 08:04 4kmonk wrote:
On September 01 2011 07:27 Latedi wrote: How do you minimize probe losses from a hellion drop after a 1gate FE (yes that's PvT)? Usually I lose too many and the follow up marine tank banshee kills me good.
Well here's a tip I can give without seeing a replay. Even if you know for a fact that he's going a factory, don't go gate robo gate gate after 1 gate expand. Always go gate gate gate robo. Going quick robo leaves you vulnerable to hellion/marine/medivac combos.
Good tip, I was going to say the same thing. If you 1 Gate FE, get your 3 Gates laid down, then the robo. I believe I like to go Gate Stalker Nexus Gate Gate Stalker Assimilator Robo. I try to make sure I can have an obs out by 7:30. I usually then get 2 Observers out, and depending on what the Terran does an Immortal or not before the Support Bay.
Also, seeing that a hellion drop is coming is the best way to prevent it from doing damage. Have the sides of the map in-vision.
About the scouting in PvP, isn't it problematic defending a proxy 2gate if you don't actually see the gates and you scout at 12/13? Since you will have wasted time scouting maybe 3 locations before you went to his base.
Ok another question: How do you defend your mineral lines vs banshees if you only have only 1 observer? When he has 2 banshees there's obviously going to be complications. Maybe you can build obs obs immortal obs immortal from the robo?
Wasted time looking around my side of the map for gates? Wasted time seeing what, him lay down a pylon followed by a core? There is a window of time in which you don't really need your probe in his base, if you know there are no gates near yours.
Build obs -> Rally to his base, order another one. You want 2 Observers usually anyways, unless you are rushing out Colossi for your build or something.
What I mean is what if he proxies on a location that your probe doesn't scout? I guess that was a good move on his part but if the result is instant loss that makes me sad :<
I want to try with one less observer in PvT also :3 seems more fun and more effective if done right.
You scout all the proxy locations that are reasonably close. If your opponent proxies you at a location that you didn't scout, it should be far enough that even if you made a gas and a core, you should be able to hold it off.
I've been trying out a 1 gate expo where i get 100 gas for a stalker and warp gate. I get 2 more gates after this and a forge quite quickly for a speedy +1 armor. I get a lot of timings around 8-9 minutes where I just die whether it's mass bio, bio + medivacs, or bio + ghosts. Im unsure if I should keep on trying this build or if 10 games just isn't enough time to refine it enough to this point.
All I know is PvT is my hardest mu atm and I am getting crushed early mid and late game.
On September 03 2011 13:04 KingDime wrote: I've been trying out a 1 gate expo where i get 100 gas for a stalker and warp gate. I get 2 more gates after this and a forge quite quickly for a speedy +1 armor. I get a lot of timings around 8-9 minutes where I just die whether it's mass bio, bio + medivacs, or bio + ghosts. Im unsure if I should keep on trying this build or if 10 games just isn't enough time to refine it enough to this point.
All I know is PvT is my hardest mu atm and I am getting crushed early mid and late game.
Does anyone have any replays or practice with the really early robo build kiwikaki has been using as of late at MLG? It involves getting the robo 1-2 seconds before his warp gate research and before he has a single unit out at all. Just trying to understand the logic behind this as it lets the terran see what he's doing exactly and he makes an immortal first anyways, not observer.
On September 02 2011 05:07 JonnyLaw wrote: I find gateway (12) scouting in pvp to be more useful. With a nine scout you may get to their base in time to see that they are proxy gating or cannon rushing.
If you scout well around common proxy locations such as the gold, tasteless's secret hallway and your natural on xel'naga I feel that a 12 scout is preferable. Protoss cannot deny scouting until the stalker comes out. Scouting around for proxies then getting into the opponents base late feels stronger to me personally.
ALWAYS pylon scout in PvP. Always. On 2-player maps you could theoretically scout on 12 but XNC especially is so cheese filled in PvP that you're still better off scouting on 9. You have to find them to scout proxy gates or cannon rush BEFORE you start warping in your core. If you place cycore instead of second gate or forge against either of these strats you are straight up dead. At that point canceling the core and starting another warpgate is too late, they will show up with 3 zealots when you only have one out and that's gg.
Hell, the pylon scout is often too late on large maps against certain cheeses and you still get a free loss, scouting on 12 is suicidal. On Tal'Darim Altar you can get a TON of free wins in PvP by putting proxy gates near the xelnaga tower opposite your spawn position. (For example, if you spawn in upper left, place the proxy gates at the 3:00 tower.) You have a 66% chance of having the gates be "close" to the opponent and the map is large enough that even a second-position scout will be too late, you'll again have 3 zealots to his one even if he places another gateway immediately after scouting you. I'm not sure if you can beat it by making cannons (I'm skeptical about this) but doing it with zealots absolutely does not work.
On September 02 2011 05:07 JonnyLaw wrote: I find gateway (12) scouting in pvp to be more useful. With a nine scout you may get to their base in time to see that they are proxy gating or cannon rushing.
If you scout well around common proxy locations such as the gold, tasteless's secret hallway and your natural on xel'naga I feel that a 12 scout is preferable. Protoss cannot deny scouting until the stalker comes out. Scouting around for proxies then getting into the opponents base late feels stronger to me personally.
ALWAYS pylon scout in PvP. Always. On 2-player maps you could theoretically scout on 12 but XNC especially is so cheese filled in PvP that you're still better off scouting on 9. You have to find them to scout proxy gates or cannon rush BEFORE you start warping in your core. If you place cycore instead of second gate or forge against either of these strats you are straight up dead. At that point canceling the core and starting another warpgate is too late, they will show up with 3 zealots when you only have one out and that's gg.
Hell, the pylon scout is often too late on large maps against certain cheeses and you still get a free loss, scouting on 12 is suicidal. On Tal'Darim Altar you can get a TON of free wins in PvP by putting proxy gates near the xelnaga tower opposite your spawn position. (For example, if you spawn in upper left, place the proxy gates at the 3:00 tower.) You have a 66% chance of having the gates be "close" to the opponent and the map is large enough that even a second-position scout will be too late, you'll again have 3 zealots to his one even if he places another gateway immediately after scouting you. I'm not sure if you can beat it by making cannons (I'm skeptical about this) but doing it with zealots absolutely does not work.
Aww man I hate that cheeser logic :p I remember finding out that if you are close air positions on metalopolis, the zerg 6pools and delays the overlord scout, and you do a normal 13gate, you will instant lose.
can anyone point me in the correct direction of some replays of level high tosses beating a terran 1/1/1 push. Looking for any inspiration really to figure this out. i keep getting GM terrans on ladder and its 1/1/1 over and over.
preferably games that are 1.4 friendly as well. as blink stalker is one of my best counters to this and it will now finish after the terran starts his push and on small maps thats way to late.
On September 03 2011 15:07 shouri wrote: Does anyone have any replays or practice with the really early robo build kiwikaki has been using as of late at MLG? It involves getting the robo 1-2 seconds before his warp gate research and before he has a single unit out at all. Just trying to understand the logic behind this as it lets the terran see what he's doing exactly and he makes an immortal first anyways, not observer.
I am waiting on MLG replays to get a look at his builds, because he always does crazy no-margin-for-error stuff that results in exactly what he needs at exactly the right time.
There's a window between a probe scout getting denied by Marines and the first Observer making it to the Terrans base where you have no clue what he is doing, and my guess is that the timing works out where he can get an Immortal and Stalker/Sentry and still have time for an Obs before the first Banshee can possibly arrive, so he can be safe from Banshee play while being as prepared as possible for a stim-timing push.
On September 02 2011 06:34 CecilSunkure wrote: Good tip, I was going to say the same thing. If you 1 Gate FE, get your 3 Gates laid down, then the robo. I believe I like to go Gate Stalker Nexus Gate Gate Stalker Assimilator Robo. I try to make sure I can have an obs out by 7:30. I usually then get 2 Observers out, and depending on what the Terran does an Immortal or not before the Support Bay.
Also, seeing that a hellion drop is coming is the best way to prevent it from doing damage. Have the sides of the map in-vision.
don't you instalose against 111 with such timing on robo? Especially if you get 2 obs. When the push comes you will hardly a single immortal out, right?
My question: what is the ideal composition against terran player who goes mech (mostly tanks + BFHs). I love "normal" PvT against bio where I go for masslots+sentries+HTs with fast upgrades and lots of gateways but I have no clue what to do when opponents goes mech. With BFH zealots are totally useless, stalkers die easily to tanks, storm doesn't work much against mech.. should I go for some tripple robo immortal production? I hope you won't tell me to go VRs because I find it extremely one trick ponyish.
Immortals don't work unless you have already thinned out his Tank count, Hellions will tear off your shields. A few are useful with your Gateway army though.
Stargate play is the way to go. You don't have to turn it into some kind of Void Ray gimmick though, Phoenix harass forces missile turrets and further compromise his Marine count (that was already compromised for Hellions) and can lift Hellions & Tanks when the battle comes. A few Void Rays, given the chance to charge up, can knock down enough Tanks and Thors to let your Gateway units sweep the rest. Don't engage with your Gateway army unless you can catch him unsieged or you have killed enough tanks. Can't really tell you what 'enough' is, that comes with experience.
Its tough because you have to play very active, harass well without losing units and always be threatening with your main army just out of range, so he can't get a free stroll over to your base and acquire the Siege-up he wants without resistance. That said, mech armies take a long time to replenish, so if you can get one good engagement, the game is entirely in your hands.
Hard to advise any more without a replay.
This is bad advice. Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.
On September 02 2011 05:07 JonnyLaw wrote: I find gateway (12) scouting in pvp to be more useful. With a nine scout you may get to their base in time to see that they are proxy gating or cannon rushing.
If you scout well around common proxy locations such as the gold, tasteless's secret hallway and your natural on xel'naga I feel that a 12 scout is preferable. Protoss cannot deny scouting until the stalker comes out. Scouting around for proxies then getting into the opponents base late feels stronger to me personally.
ALWAYS pylon scout in PvP. Always. On 2-player maps you could theoretically scout on 12 but XNC especially is so cheese filled in PvP that you're still better off scouting on 9. You have to find them to scout proxy gates or cannon rush BEFORE you start warping in your core. If you place cycore instead of second gate or forge against either of these strats you are straight up dead. At that point canceling the core and starting another warpgate is too late, they will show up with 3 zealots when you only have one out and that's gg.
Hell, the pylon scout is often too late on large maps against certain cheeses and you still get a free loss, scouting on 12 is suicidal. On Tal'Darim Altar you can get a TON of free wins in PvP by putting proxy gates near the xelnaga tower opposite your spawn position. (For example, if you spawn in upper left, place the proxy gates at the 3:00 tower.) You have a 66% chance of having the gates be "close" to the opponent and the map is large enough that even a second-position scout will be too late, you'll again have 3 zealots to his one even if he places another gateway immediately after scouting you. I'm not sure if you can beat it by making cannons (I'm skeptical about this) but doing it with zealots absolutely does not work.
This is bad advice too. Stop posting stuff unless you know what you're talking about. It's better to give no advice than to give bad advice. Scout on 12 or 13 if you like, no reason to on 9 unless you just aren't comfortable with your cheese defense. Otherwise you scouting on nine will result in a lead to me scouting on 13, resulting in me winning.
On September 03 2011 15:07 shouri wrote: Does anyone have any replays or practice with the really early robo build kiwikaki has been using as of late at MLG? It involves getting the robo 1-2 seconds before his warp gate research and before he has a single unit out at all. Just trying to understand the logic behind this as it lets the terran see what he's doing exactly and he makes an immortal first anyways, not observer.
I am waiting on MLG replays to get a look at his builds, because he always does crazy no-margin-for-error stuff that results in exactly what he needs at exactly the right time.
There's a window between a probe scout getting denied by Marines and the first Observer making it to the Terrans base where you have no clue what he is doing, and my guess is that the timing works out where he can get an Immortal and Stalker/Sentry and still have time for an Obs before the first Banshee can possibly arrive, so he can be safe from Banshee play while being as prepared as possible for a stim-timing push.
That window of timing is what separates poor players from good players. A good player will study games and take note of what means what depending on what you find during that time. Marine movements, marine count, marine placement, whether or not he took a vespene, all of those are good tells of what is going on within that window. Again, just stop posting advice unless you know what you're talking about. There are plenty of times people all over TL will ask a question, and I just won't know how to answer it. I usually let someone else answer it. I suggest you and everyone else that has been recently giving poor advice to follow suit.
Ok I have finally gotten a bit bored of double forge PvT, been doing it since beta. So I figured it would be fun to get fast HTs with maybe one forge. Which leads to me wanting to storm drop of course. Does anyone know any good builds for this? What I am doing so far is 1gate FE -> 3 gates and a forge -> tech HTs and get +2 armor, storm and charge -> more gates -> take a third and get a robo. It feels like the robo is coming out kind of late but all this is so gas heavy I don't see how you can get it any faster. And when you are getting as many HTs as possible the 300 gas investment for warp prism speed feels like quite a lot, when would be the best time to get it? I don't really expect to get any concrete answers to this but if you know of any games (HuK anyone? )it has been used, feel free to tell me ^^
On September 02 2011 05:07 JonnyLaw wrote: I find gateway (12) scouting in pvp to be more useful. With a nine scout you may get to their base in time to see that they are proxy gating or cannon rushing.
If you scout well around common proxy locations such as the gold, tasteless's secret hallway and your natural on xel'naga I feel that a 12 scout is preferable. Protoss cannot deny scouting until the stalker comes out. Scouting around for proxies then getting into the opponents base late feels stronger to me personally.
ALWAYS pylon scout in PvP. Always. On 2-player maps you could theoretically scout on 12 but XNC especially is so cheese filled in PvP that you're still better off scouting on 9. You have to find them to scout proxy gates or cannon rush BEFORE you start warping in your core. If you place cycore instead of second gate or forge against either of these strats you are straight up dead. At that point canceling the core and starting another warpgate is too late, they will show up with 3 zealots when you only have one out and that's gg.
Hell, the pylon scout is often too late on large maps against certain cheeses and you still get a free loss, scouting on 12 is suicidal. On Tal'Darim Altar you can get a TON of free wins in PvP by putting proxy gates near the xelnaga tower opposite your spawn position. (For example, if you spawn in upper left, place the proxy gates at the 3:00 tower.) You have a 66% chance of having the gates be "close" to the opponent and the map is large enough that even a second-position scout will be too late, you'll again have 3 zealots to his one even if he places another gateway immediately after scouting you. I'm not sure if you can beat it by making cannons (I'm skeptical about this) but doing it with zealots absolutely does not work.
This is completely incorrect and will screw up cyber core and gateway timings. You should always 12 gateway scout PvP. The only reason to 9 scout is to check for cheese, and most cheese in PvP will either be scouted in time, or by your properly timed probe you should run around the edges of your base to check for cannons.
Hey guys, I'm just starting to learn FFE, and I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to best place my buildings and cannons at the choke. Please look at the screenshots below and tell me which is preferable. I know that neither may be optimal, but I just want to know if its good to 'stagger' the buildings, or line them up flat and put cannons behind them. Thank you.
On September 02 2011 06:34 CecilSunkure wrote: Good tip, I was going to say the same thing. If you 1 Gate FE, get your 3 Gates laid down, then the robo. I believe I like to go Gate Stalker Nexus Gate Gate Stalker Assimilator Robo. I try to make sure I can have an obs out by 7:30. I usually then get 2 Observers out, and depending on what the Terran does an Immortal or not before the Support Bay.
Also, seeing that a hellion drop is coming is the best way to prevent it from doing damage. Have the sides of the map in-vision.
don't you instalose against 111 with such timing on robo? Especially if you get 2 obs. When the push comes you will hardly a single immortal out, right?
My question: what is the ideal composition against terran player who goes mech (mostly tanks + BFHs). I love "normal" PvT against bio where I go for masslots+sentries+HTs with fast upgrades and lots of gateways but I have no clue what to do when opponents goes mech. With BFH zealots are totally useless, stalkers die easily to tanks, storm doesn't work much against mech.. should I go for some tripple robo immortal production? I hope you won't tell me to go VRs because I find it extremely one trick ponyish.
Immortals don't work unless you have already thinned out his Tank count, Hellions will tear off your shields. A few are useful with your Gateway army though.
Stargate play is the way to go. You don't have to turn it into some kind of Void Ray gimmick though, Phoenix harass forces missile turrets and further compromise his Marine count (that was already compromised for Hellions) and can lift Hellions & Tanks when the battle comes. A few Void Rays, given the chance to charge up, can knock down enough Tanks and Thors to let your Gateway units sweep the rest. Don't engage with your Gateway army unless you can catch him unsieged or you have killed enough tanks. Can't really tell you what 'enough' is, that comes with experience.
Its tough because you have to play very active, harass well without losing units and always be threatening with your main army just out of range, so he can't get a free stroll over to your base and acquire the Siege-up he wants without resistance. That said, mech armies take a long time to replenish, so if you can get one good engagement, the game is entirely in your hands.
Hard to advise any more without a replay.
This is bad advice. Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.
And to answer Ondik, no you don't lose.
This is the game I was thinking of, its dated so I didn't want to post originally, was hoping someone else had a more recent replay. Naniwa pushed a bad engagement which led to his loss, but the Phoenix play was what I was talking about.
I haven't seen lots of heavy mech vs Protoss in the pros - when White-Ra streams and anticipates tanks he seems to love Stargate play but again, I don't like posting what I think pros do based on my 'experience' watching them, especially in ladder play.
While I find your advice of "don't lose" to be profound and helpful advice in all situations, maybe instead of telling me that I'm wrong and I shouldn't post, you could enlighten us all with The True Answer to his question and explain to us mere mortals how you arrived at it, or at the very least explain why my advice is bad? I'm perfectly happy to be wrong if you explain why.
On September 03 2011 15:07 shouri wrote: Does anyone have any replays or practice with the really early robo build kiwikaki has been using as of late at MLG? It involves getting the robo 1-2 seconds before his warp gate research and before he has a single unit out at all. Just trying to understand the logic behind this as it lets the terran see what he's doing exactly and he makes an immortal first anyways, not observer.
I am waiting on MLG replays to get a look at his builds, because he always does crazy no-margin-for-error stuff that results in exactly what he needs at exactly the right time.
There's a window between a probe scout getting denied by Marines and the first Observer making it to the Terrans base where you have no clue what he is doing, and my guess is that the timing works out where he can get an Immortal and Stalker/Sentry and still have time for an Obs before the first Banshee can possibly arrive, so he can be safe from Banshee play while being as prepared as possible for a stim-timing push.
That window of timing is what separates poor players from good players. A good player will study games and take note of what means what depending on what you find during that time. Marine movements, marine count, marine placement, whether or not he took a vespene, all of those are good tells of what is going on within that window. Again, just stop posting advice unless you know what you're talking about. There are plenty of times people all over TL will ask a question, and I just won't know how to answer it. I usually let someone else answer it. I suggest you and everyone else that has been recently giving poor advice to follow suit.
With the words "my guess" I thought I was making it clear that I was speculating and in no way intended that post to be universal truth. Speculation isn't ideal, but without a replay or talking directly to the player, that's all a post like that can expect and there is no where he can reasonably ask a question like that except in a general help thread (such as this one). I probably should have chosen my words more carefully than "no clue what he's doing", because I'm sure Kiwikaki had a guess based on what he saw and his general 'starsense' that the build he chose was appropriate.
Hey guys, I'm just starting to learn FFE, and I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to best place my buildings and cannons at the choke. Please look at the screenshots below and tell me which is preferable. I know that neither may be optimal, but I just want to know if its good to 'stagger' the buildings, or line them up flat and put cannons behind them. Thank you.
Both of these walls are fine however: The one where you have the forge and gateway corner to corner may still be bling busted on the upper canon, not to mention the lower with the zealot. You might want the buildings to be slightly less diagonally placed (if you get what I mean). The other wall is completely solid but it has a large hole. You should either place the cybernetics core to completely wall off and later kill off a building (usually the forge) when you want to move out or use a pylon to leave such a hole that you can fit a zealot, like in the first picture. How you wall should depend on what you scout or don't scout, and how safe your build needs to be.
On September 02 2011 05:07 JonnyLaw wrote: I find gateway (12) scouting in pvp to be more useful. With a nine scout you may get to their base in time to see that they are proxy gating or cannon rushing.
If you scout well around common proxy locations such as the gold, tasteless's secret hallway and your natural on xel'naga I feel that a 12 scout is preferable. Protoss cannot deny scouting until the stalker comes out. Scouting around for proxies then getting into the opponents base late feels stronger to me personally.
ALWAYS pylon scout in PvP. Always. On 2-player maps you could theoretically scout on 12 but XNC especially is so cheese filled in PvP that you're still better off scouting on 9. You have to find them to scout proxy gates or cannon rush BEFORE you start warping in your core. If you place cycore instead of second gate or forge against either of these strats you are straight up dead. At that point canceling the core and starting another warpgate is too late, they will show up with 3 zealots when you only have one out and that's gg.
Hell, the pylon scout is often too late on large maps against certain cheeses and you still get a free loss, scouting on 12 is suicidal. On Tal'Darim Altar you can get a TON of free wins in PvP by putting proxy gates near the xelnaga tower opposite your spawn position. (For example, if you spawn in upper left, place the proxy gates at the 3:00 tower.) You have a 66% chance of having the gates be "close" to the opponent and the map is large enough that even a second-position scout will be too late, you'll again have 3 zealots to his one even if he places another gateway immediately after scouting you. I'm not sure if you can beat it by making cannons (I'm skeptical about this) but doing it with zealots absolutely does not work.
This is completely incorrect and will screw up cyber core and gateway timings. You should always 12 gateway scout PvP. The only reason to 9 scout is to check for cheese, and most cheese in PvP will either be scouted in time, or by your properly timed probe you should run around the edges of your base to check for cannons.
Yeah, I used to pylon scout at 9 on PvP - more out of habit than anything else. But, from my noob perspective, your build in PvP (especially if going 4 gate) 'flows' so much better with a gate scout at 12. The extra mineral boost goes a long way in getting everything faster and a little tighter.
What's the best way to deal with a cannon rush in PvP? When you see them throw down that pylon should you pull off ALL of your probes? And should you throw a forge up yourself when they get the pylon in a good position?
EPT
)it has been used, feel free to tell me ^^![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qZuJi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vg7mq.jpg)
