EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 42
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On September 01 2011 07:27 Latedi wrote: How do you minimize probe losses from a hellion drop after a 1gate FE (yes that's PvT)? Usually I lose too many and the follow up marine tank banshee kills me good. Well here's a tip I can give without seeing a replay. Even if you know for a fact that he's going a factory, don't go gate robo gate gate after 1 gate expand. Always go gate gate gate robo. Going quick robo leaves you vulnerable to hellion/marine/medivac combos. | ||
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adrift
192 Posts
In PvZ what kind of unit composition do I want to defend a third against an infestor + X (usually lings) + mass infested terran attack? I want templar tech to fight infestors but I kind of need three base gas to really get it going and I keep losing my third over and over to these mass infested terran attacks. I've tried collosus and blink stalkers with not much luck. Collosus is OK at actually holding the third if he doesn't have neural but generally he will just fall back when he sees the collosus and come back with lots of corruptors while I'm still trying to get maxed out. Should I just try getting templar on two base? | ||
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Enright
9 Posts
On September 01 2011 07:27 Latedi wrote: How do you minimize probe losses from a hellion drop after a 1gate FE (yes that's PvT)? Usually I lose too many and the follow up marine tank banshee kills me good. I'm assuming this is delayed 1/1/1 with helion drop. When you recognize 1/1/1 you should comfortably have map control/watchtowers with 1/2 stalkers. You should be anticipating banshee harass to begin with, keeping the rest of your stalkers around your mineral lines until you see the big push to ward off drops/banshees. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:04 4kmonk wrote: Well here's a tip I can give without seeing a replay. Even if you know for a fact that he's going a factory, don't go gate robo gate gate after 1 gate expand. Always go gate gate gate robo. Going quick robo leaves you vulnerable to hellion/marine/medivac combos. How safe is delaying the robo vs 1-1-1? Qtip's guide mentions to rush for it to get 2 obs fast and enough immortals for the push, but yeah you really have very few gateway units to be safe vs hellion drops  | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:04 4kmonk wrote: Well here's a tip I can give without seeing a replay. Even if you know for a fact that he's going a factory, don't go gate robo gate gate after 1 gate expand. Always go gate gate gate robo. Going quick robo leaves you vulnerable to hellion/marine/medivac combos. Ooh I didn't think of that  What if he gets cloaked banshees? Will observers be out fast enough?On September 01 2011 08:09 Enright wrote: I'm assuming this is delayed 1/1/1 with helion drop. When you recognize 1/1/1 you should comfortably have map control/watchtowers with 1/2 stalkers. You should be anticipating banshee harass to begin with, keeping the rest of your stalkers around your mineral lines until you see the big push to ward off drops/banshees. Yes the game I'm thinking of now I had a probe for the tower (Shattered Temple) and kept the rest of my stalkers in my base, but they didn't kill the hellions fast enough. More units like 4kmonk said is needed I guess. Also that map is a bit retarded as a drop can sneak up on the cliffs behind your main and suddenly you have units in the middle of your base. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13408 Posts
How do I become more consistent and stop going on terrible tilt-ish losing sprees? I would love to play and win more than I lose or even break even every day I choose to ladder. But the uneveness of my wins and losses and streaks is extremely frustrating. Any tips? | ||
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:08 adrift wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, I skimmed the thread but I don't have time to read through the whole thing. In PvZ what kind of unit composition do I want to defend a third against an infestor + X (usually lings) + mass infested terran attack? I want templar tech to fight infestors but I kind of need three base gas to really get it going and I keep losing my third over and over to these mass infested terran attacks. I've tried collosus and blink stalkers with not much luck. Collosus is OK at actually holding the third if he doesn't have neural but generally he will just fall back when he sees the collosus and come back with lots of corruptors while I'm still trying to get maxed out. Should I just try getting templar on two base? A replay would help a lot here, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that you are playing too passively and letting Zerg take a third and run away with his eco before you take your own third. It takes quite a bit of gas to fund Infestors, more than is viable on 2 base unless he didn't have to spend gas on ANYthing other than Speedlings and the tech to Infestor. You know, the same problem you have trying to get Templar on 2 base, because you've been spending gas on Sentries and so on. But yeah, post replay and we can help more. | ||
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:18 Latedi wrote: Ooh I didn't think of that What if he gets cloaked banshees? Will observers be out fast enough?Yes the game I'm thinking of now I had a probe for the tower (Shattered Temple) and kept the rest of my stalkers in my base, but they didn't kill the hellions fast enough. More units like 4kmonk said is needed I guess. Also that map is a bit retarded as a drop can sneak up on the cliffs behind your main and suddenly you have units in the middle of your base. Yes, the observer will get out fast enough for cloaked banshees. You can also try to sim city your main against hellion drops. Also, getting a slower robo only hurts slightly vs 1-1-1. It hurts in that you get to scout his base later and thus won't know if he's doing a 1-1-1 allin or 1-1-1 expo as soon as you would optimally want to. However, that's the only way going a slower robo is worse. You will have enough immortals off of the slower robo vs 1-1-1. | ||
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dama
19 Posts
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
On September 01 2011 11:26 dama wrote: Do you scout after pylon or after gateway? Are there situations/matchups/maps where one is preferred over the other? On maps you know where your opponent spawned, like Xel'Naga Caverns, a 6 pool cannot be found in time without a 9 scout. Same for proxy 2 rax/gates or a cannon rush with the first pylon proxied. On MLG maps with close spawns removed, an Overlord can rule out one location while the lings are building or a T/P opponent can proxy right between to the two possible locations, so the same logic applies there, a 9 scout is required or you risk an auto-loss. On maps with 4 possible spawn locations you can 12/13 scout, but a 7 pool with drone scout can rule out 2 locations before the lings pop, and a proxy in the middle of the map or something cute like that is still possible. So, unless you confirm that your opponent isn't doing that by getting lucky with your scouting pattern, you have to boost out your first zealot to be safe or take the chance. There are other possibilities that still make 9 scouting a good idea on 4 person maps. For example, if you are going forge FE against zerg and your 9 scout doesn't find your opponent at the first base, you can send out a second probe from your main along with the first one to scout the third and fourth positions at the same time. This guarantees that if he went hatch first you'll find him in time to drop a pylon and threaten the cannon rush - either he sees it and pulls drones and you cost him considerable mining time before cancelling, or he doesn't see it and loses his natural. Its an exaggerated example because it was on Tal'darim Altar, where a Protoss can still block the main from the natural with 3 pylons, but you get what I'm saying. Alternatively, you may want to gas steal to delay possible early tech rushing to banshees/dts/whatever, in which case you need the probe there before he has taken both geysers - unless you get lucky and scout him first, you need a 9 scout to have a reasonable chance of doing this. I'm sure there are more situations I'm not thinking of at the moment. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:25 ZeromuS wrote: Not protoss specific but I am horribly inconsistent. I went on a 2 week vacation and on my first day back I was 12 wins up on my losses for the day. The next day I was 12 wins down. The next I was even and today I lost 4 in a row the second to a disconnect after holding a roach ling all in. How do I become more consistent and stop going on terrible tilt-ish losing sprees? I would love to play and win more than I lose or even break even every day I choose to ladder. But the uneveness of my wins and losses and streaks is extremely frustrating. Any tips? You play so much your play becomes rock solid. It make take some time though. I think I have around 1,5k games played I'm not sure but I'm still being inconsistent as well. Fcous on only using a few builds as well. On September 01 2011 09:20 4kmonk wrote: Yes, the observer will get out fast enough for cloaked banshees. You can also try to sim city your main against hellion drops. Also, getting a slower robo only hurts slightly vs 1-1-1. It hurts in that you get to scout his base later and thus won't know if he's doing a 1-1-1 allin or 1-1-1 expo as soon as you would optimally want to. However, that's the only way going a slower robo is worse. You will have enough immortals off of the slower robo vs 1-1-1. Aha that sounds good, I will begin doing this for sure. I never have time for more than one immortal anyway as I prefer observers. And about the 1-1-1 expo, I have almost never seen one haha. I guess they prefer all ins or something. The few times I do see it it usually means I can counter attack right away and win, if the engagement went largely in my favor. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
I'm in Silver and people do a lot of dumb crap.. like mass banshees or marine/tank in PvT :/ I had collossus/a few archons/mass zealots/some stalkers/sentry/2 immortals. I thought I'd completely countered it but my army got kinda rolled. Storm maybe? I didn't engage very well (stalkers at front) so maybe its just a matter of positioning | ||
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Lakai
Canada315 Posts
On September 01 2011 08:16 Teoita wrote: How safe is delaying the robo vs 1-1-1? Qtip's guide mentions to rush for it to get 2 obs fast and enough immortals for the push, but yeah you really have very few gateway units to be safe vs hellion drops Imo, get your robo started by 6:00 at the latest. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On September 02 2011 02:02 marvellosity wrote: Why is our Help Me thread more than twice as long as the Terran's? All Terran players are just naturally better at SC2. | ||
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headbus
Canada173 Posts
On September 02 2011 02:57 ProxyKnoxy wrote: What do I do against Marine/Tank in TvP? I'm in Silver and people do a lot of dumb crap.. like mass banshees or marine/tank in PvT :/ I had collossus/a few archons/mass zealots/some stalkers/sentry/2 immortals. I thought I'd completely countered it but my army got kinda rolled. Storm maybe? I didn't engage very well (stalkers at front) so maybe its just a matter of positioning Protoss have endless amounts of counters to marine tank. Collosus Zealot Blink/chargelot gateway armies Archon/Storm/Chargelot The key to beating marine tank is purely in the engagement. Try to minimize seige tank splash, minimize the amount of trapped zealots. Don't just engage from one angle and hope for the best, use a couple zealots/archons to flank him. Try to engage when the tanks are out of position or moving. Also, prioritize what you are focusing. If I had a hefty blink stalker army with handfuls of archons/HT's. I'd be primarily worried about getting rid of the tank count, as blink stalkers / HT's/archons deal with marines pretty easily. Whereas if I was zealot collosus, its very hard for the seige tanks to take an agressive position against the long range of a collosus without marines there to protect them or give vision. So I would primarily focus the marine ball. The last thing is either commit to an engagement, or don't. Its a fatal flaw to poke in and out of a seige line trying to find a hole, attack on a warpin so you have an influx of units and if you have committed then stick to it. GL in the future. | ||
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Mackem
United Kingdom470 Posts
Can someone tell me/help me find the important timings for terran, zerg and toss i.e. what time I should be looking to scout and what sort of things should I be looking for? Also, can someone help me with build orders for each MU? In PvP, I generally go for blink stalkers with +1 attack and a few immortals/sentries/zealots mixed in, but it just feels as though against T and Z I just end up making loads of production facilities that I can't afford to produce out of i.e. sometimes I throw down robo, stargate and templar archives all at the same time. Pretty stupid when I look at my replays. Thanks. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On September 02 2011 04:19 Mackem wrote: Few questions for a noob: Can someone tell me/help me find the important timings for terran, zerg and toss i.e. what time I should be looking to scout and what sort of things should I be looking for? Also, can someone help me with build orders for each MU? In PvP, I generally go for blink stalkers with +1 attack and a few immortals/sentries/zealots mixed in, but it just feels as though against T and Z I just end up making loads of production facilities that I can't afford to produce out of i.e. sometimes I throw down robo, stargate and templar archives all at the same time. Pretty stupid when I look at my replays. Thanks. If you are a "noob" then I wouldn't worry too much about "timings." Seriously, just concentrate on macro. Use the general guideline of having ~3-4 production facilities per base you have. If you're teching/upgrading/making probes then you're closer to the 3 buildings per base, if you are stopping everything else and prepping for an attack you might even want to go for 4-5 production buildings per base. If you still can't produce out of everything, it just means you don't have enough probes. Make more probes. As for "what time I should be looking to scout," honestly at any point in the game you should be asking yourself, do I know what my opponent is doing right now? If the answer is no, then you should be scouting at that moment. Things to look for depends on what stage of the game it is, but generally the 2 most important things to scout for is 1) base count vs yours/is he prepping for an all-in/attack? and 2) what's his unit composition so I can make units to counter his. | ||
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
On September 02 2011 02:02 marvellosity wrote: Why is our Help Me thread more than twice as long as the Terran's? Because they already have a thread explaining how to execute a 1-1-1. | ||
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