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So.. how exactly am I supposed to scout in PvZ? I don't get it at all.
I scout fast 3rd hatch.
But Zerg stopped making Drones after 24 and got speed, then killed with me Speedlings because I wanted to go for Stalker pressure. I even scouted for gases after I was done blocking the Natural.
Anyone has any idea how to deal with those fake hatches? Zerg has map control and wins the game every time I go for anything other than Sentries..
I mean, probescouting doesn't really work vs range 5 Queens and Zerglings. But everything else would be too late.. I am really out of ideas on this one.
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thats why you kinda need sentries in pvz and pvt to survive early game
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Canada13407 Posts
On February 19 2013 02:24 rEalGuapo wrote:
So.. how exactly am I supposed to scout in PvZ? I don't get it at all.
I scout fast 3rd hatch.
But Zerg stopped making Drones and got speed, then killed with me Speedlings because I wanted to go for Stalker pressure. I even scouted for gases after I was done blocking the Natural.
Anyone has any idea how to deal with those fake hatches? Zerg has map control and wins the game every time I go for anything other than Sentries..
I mean, probescouting doesn't really work vs range 5 Queens and Zerglings. But everything else would be too late.. I am really out of ideas on this one.
Well, you can always scout again before speed is done. It takes iirc 3 minutes for speed to complete from when they start mining gas. So if at the 2:50 mark if you see no gas (assuming you blocked the hatch at 2:33 for hatch first) then you have until 6 minutes at the earliest to scout before speed. I like to check again with a probe to make sure the third is done if I feel something fishy is up (no scouting lings, or too many scouting lings). Posting a replay is the best way for us to help you 
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Italy12246 Posts
Additionally, assuming you FFE, you can scout by chronoboosting out 2 zealots, as they will be enough to clean up 4-6 speedlings while a single zealot wouldn't.
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Rule of thumb for engagements (with micro):
To kill 4 slowlings, you only need one zealot
To kill 4 speedlings, you need a zealot and a probe
To kill >4 lings you need at least 2 zealots
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On February 19 2013 03:26 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 02:24 rEalGuapo wrote:
So.. how exactly am I supposed to scout in PvZ? I don't get it at all.
I scout fast 3rd hatch.
But Zerg stopped making Drones and got speed, then killed with me Speedlings because I wanted to go for Stalker pressure. I even scouted for gases after I was done blocking the Natural.
Anyone has any idea how to deal with those fake hatches? Zerg has map control and wins the game every time I go for anything other than Sentries..
I mean, probescouting doesn't really work vs range 5 Queens and Zerglings. But everything else would be too late.. I am really out of ideas on this one. Well, you can always scout again before speed is done. It takes iirc 3 minutes for speed to complete from when they start mining gas. So if at the 2:50 mark if you see no gas (assuming you blocked the hatch at 2:33 for hatch first) then you have until 6 minutes at the earliest to scout before speed. I like to check again with a probe to make sure the third is done if I feel something fishy is up (no scouting lings, or too many scouting lings). Posting a replay is the best way for us to help you
His third was actually done but I think Probescouting should never work against a decent Zerg, he will already have Queens in position to deny any information and Zerglings without speed still hunt them down too fast.
I guess making a Zealot and then 2 Stalkers to pressure might just fix it but I never have enough minerals for that o0.
I don't really like posting replays when I ask for a very specific situation because people will just keep pointing out mistakes I made AFTER I already lost the game. And those mistakes happen for the most part because I don't know what to do in that situation. Also it was a HotS game.
The thing is, if I move out with a Zealot and he kills it with Zerglings that still doesn't say a whole lot, does it? I mean on a somewhat big map he has enough time to make extra Zerglings and I once again have no information what so ever but lose production time that should be spent on Sentries.
That being said, if you still want me to I will gladly post the replay. Maybe that 2 Stalker pressure is just simply designated to die against such an all in...
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Canada13407 Posts
On February 19 2013 04:03 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 03:26 ZeromuS wrote:On February 19 2013 02:24 rEalGuapo wrote:
So.. how exactly am I supposed to scout in PvZ? I don't get it at all.
I scout fast 3rd hatch.
But Zerg stopped making Drones and got speed, then killed with me Speedlings because I wanted to go for Stalker pressure. I even scouted for gases after I was done blocking the Natural.
Anyone has any idea how to deal with those fake hatches? Zerg has map control and wins the game every time I go for anything other than Sentries..
I mean, probescouting doesn't really work vs range 5 Queens and Zerglings. But everything else would be too late.. I am really out of ideas on this one. Well, you can always scout again before speed is done. It takes iirc 3 minutes for speed to complete from when they start mining gas. So if at the 2:50 mark if you see no gas (assuming you blocked the hatch at 2:33 for hatch first) then you have until 6 minutes at the earliest to scout before speed. I like to check again with a probe to make sure the third is done if I feel something fishy is up (no scouting lings, or too many scouting lings). Posting a replay is the best way for us to help you His third was actually done but I think Probescouting should never work against a decent Zerg, he will already have Queens in position to deny any information and Zerglings without speed still hunt them down too fast. I guess making a Zealot and then 2 Stalkers to pressure might just fix it but I never have enough minerals for that o0. I don't really like posting replays when I ask for a very specific situation because people will just keep pointing out mistakes I made AFTER I already lost the game. And those mistakes happen for the most part because I don't know what to do in that situation. Also it was a HotS game. The thing is, if I move out with a Zealot and he kills it with Zerglings that still doesn't say a whole lot, does it? I mean on a somewhat big map he has enough time to make extra Zerglings and I once again have no information what so ever but lose production time that should be spent on Sentries. That being said, if you still want me to I will gladly post the replay. Maybe that 2 Stalker pressure is just simply designated to die against such an all in...
I thought you meant they had a third then cancelled the third my mistake And I just think seeing the situation might be helpful from a learning perspective.
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Italy12246 Posts
Moving out with one zealot isn't very useful for that reason. On the other hand, if you have two and he has enough lings to kill them, you know he's allining.
Also, the two zealots can be used to march across the map; that's a good poke to tell the difference between some 2base bust and a 2base lair build.
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What 3 maps should I be voting against? Right now I have it on cloud kingdom and daybreak.
I usually do Immortal all in for pVz and 3 stalker rush for PvP and sometimes I'll do a 4 gate. PvT is pretty standard macro game.
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Newkirk: just like shakuras, third base sucks vs zerg
Condemned:worst map ever
Antiga: personal choice since every zerg goes muta on that map=hard to defend, plus terran drops are a headache
btw, Cloud Kingdom is good for immo all-in so yeah
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is there anyway to prioritize buildings and units over eachother now with this patch? or in hots in that case?
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On February 16 2013 02:22 fNacks wrote:
Is it advantageous to use a control group for Warpgates instead of the default 'W' key? I've seen many pros hotkey their Gateways, and I've also seen many that simply use 'W.' Some of my friends rebound 'W' as a control group for Gateways. I can see a control group being advantageous in some ways, but the fear of accidentally adding foreign units/buildings/losing the Gateways from the group always plagues my mind. What is accepted as the best way in today's evolved SC knowledge?
Something that has helped me including all the advice on here specially learning to help macro quicker and react is put my warpgate control on my side buttons on my mouse. Its easier to quick click tap side button and then select what I want, I then have a free hotkey for either robotics or forge for upgrades
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how do i play protoss air in pvz? should i open stargate after ffe or slowly transition into it and if i do go air how do i hold off attacks like roach pushes/ling run bys. I usually go +2 7 gate blink stalker while building immortal/robo bay in background of attack but i want to try air now so sohuld i do my noraml +2 blink stalker harras and make stargate instead of the robos? if you could, please add replays for me to see.
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Is pylon/forge in the main (PartinG style) a good idea in general for FFE? I've lost to a lot of 8-14 pools trying that. Lings delay the expo and deny my scouting while he drones up and techs (often to mutas).
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 25 2013 22:19 Salient wrote:
Is pylon/forge in the main (PartinG style) a good idea in general for FFE? I've lost to a lot of 8-14 pools trying that. Lings delay the expo and deny my scouting while he drones up and techs (often to mutas).
Pylon forge in main is good on maps with small natural chokes especially. It's funny because it's supposed to keep you safe from early pools...
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Italy12246 Posts
From the PvZ Guide:
Advantages of Forge in Main:
You won’t have to give up your first Pylon or Forge against a 6 pool on any map; normally this is only possible on easily walled naturals like Shakuras Plateau and Ohana.
You can hide the progress of your upgrades, especially your +1, which leaves Zerg more in the dark about what you’re doing.
It’ll be much harder to snipe the Forge if it’s in the back of your main. The usual front Forge, on the other hand, is a common target for Zerg players.
Disadvantages of Forge in Main:
You’re weaker against Pools between but not including 6 Pool and 14 Pool. Against these unusual Pool timings, you won’t be able to secure your natural with a cannon.
Without the Forge at your front, you’ll have a tougher time walling off, allowing for more easy early run-bys from the Zerg. This is less of an issue on maps with smaller chokes.
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PvT: MARINE + VIKING PRESSURE
I face some serious problem with strong pressure of marines at start and then join vikings in play.
Im closed in my base to be able to defend in choke point and not able to make any pressure on enemy. Im barerly able to defend.
My micro sux in this gameplay anyway at moment when marines + vikins are comming i win battle but i lost game. All collosi are dead, im not able to refill fast army and my enemy is losing only cheap marines. Viking mass is critical and only storms may help with that but i dont have gas to build all this stuff. I lack of upgrades but im not able to take advantage since there is 0/0 in upgrades.
league: gold vs plat
replay: http://drop.sc/30705
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On February 25 2013 22:33 Teoita wrote:
From the PvZ Guide:
Advantages of Forge in Main:
You won’t have to give up your first Pylon or Forge against a 6 pool on any map; normally this is only possible on easily walled naturals like Shakuras Plateau and Ohana.
You can hide the progress of your upgrades, especially your +1, which leaves Zerg more in the dark about what you’re doing.
It’ll be much harder to snipe the Forge if it’s in the back of your main. The usual front Forge, on the other hand, is a common target for Zerg players.
Disadvantages of Forge in Main:
You’re weaker against Pools between but not including 6 Pool and 14 Pool. Against these unusual Pool timings, you won’t be able to secure your natural with a cannon.
Without the Forge at your front, you’ll have a tougher time walling off, allowing for more easy early run-bys from the Zerg. This is less of an issue on maps with smaller chokes.
I get that. But, I have no information about his pool timing when I place the pylon. Do you recommend placing it in the main or natural when opening FFE?
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On February 25 2013 23:11 Salient wrote:
I get that. But, I have no information about his pool timing when I place the pylon. Do you recommend placing it in the main or natural when opening FFE?
It really depends on you I suppose. Pylon at natural is a bit more risky but you can get the forge down earlier, so it's a bit greedier while pylon in main is a bit more defensive.
Usually I will go for pylon in natural (also map dependent) and then after scouting I can choose what to do. If you scout potential aggression (for instance the spawning pool is done when your probe gets there) you can then put a pylon + cannon near your main nexus as well as at the natural. If the pool is not done yet you have time to finish your wall off at natural as usual.
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Italy12246 Posts
You have to commit to forge in the main/natural blindly. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I personally always 9pylon at my nat, it feels more natural and harder to blind counter.
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EPT
