EPTplus warping in 2 sentries at that point just cuts too much in your gas imo.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 427
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cythaze
830 Posts
plus warping in 2 sentries at that point just cuts too much in your gas imo. | ||
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probeater
124 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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DrSayius
12 Posts
PvP: the consensus seems to be to rush for +3 attack and not both about Armour or shields. What is the consensus on the other match-ups? I'm only high silver so am not sure to what extent the above advice applies, too. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On February 17 2013 07:22 DrSayius wrote: Reading over the last couple of pages, I have a question about the upgrades that I should be prioritizing in each match-up. Up to this point, I've been timing a second forge and twilight council to finish when 1-1 finishes irrespective of match-up, and then going double upgrades to 3-3, and then shields if I have the gas/time and the game goes long enough. PvP: the consensus seems to be to rush for +3 attack and not both about Armour or shields. What is the consensus on the other match-ups? I'm only high silver so am not sure to what extent the above advice applies, too. PvP: attack upgrades, then others PvZ: attack upgrades are first priority. Depending on your playstyle you can add a second forge for additional armor upgrades. Some people experiment with shields but that's a more lategame oriented style (because it benefits archons and air units) but it's not exactly figured out. PvT: +1 armor, +1 attack, +2 armor, ... or double upgrades | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
PvZ: attack vs roach/ling based armies with stalker based armies. Vs muta ling armor upgrades are very useful so it makes sense to go attack/armor/attack/armor and so on. With zealot heavy builds (usually a chargelot/archon timing) double forge is very useful. PvT: with a single forge opening it's common to go into double ups once the Terran takes his third. Armor upgrades are again very useful with zealot heavy lings, and +1 armor is favoured over +1 attack beacuase of how tanky +1 armor zealots under guardian shield are against marines. | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
I know they're more expensive, but it seems to me that shields will be taking the most damage, and if the shields stay alive longer then less health damage will be taken. Is it really just the saved 50/50 or whatever it is? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On February 17 2013 08:47 Teoita wrote: Protoss units have less shields than hp, so they tend to benefit less from shields. Also shield's costs more, and takes more time to research. But the above is the main reason. Btw, can anyone help me out with lategame PvZ, what is the ideal late game composition? I keep on crushing Zerg with multitasking. I somehow lost a game whereby I had the ENTIRE map of CK under my control, a bank of 10k 3k (still mining one base), Zerg turtling on natural fifth (by the cliffs). I fucked up the engagement somehow. Another game i had 4 mining bases on Daybreak, Zerg had 2, harassed a lot. I simply don't know how to properly execute the engagemnt. how many Carriers? Templar? Archons? One or two Colossuses to help vs Broodlings? Should I even have Stalkers at this stage? Void Rays any good? I get so mad, when I utterly crush Zerg with multi-tasking and harassment, I've spent all game (since about 8 mins anyway when Phoenix were revealed) harassing and scouting, Zerg does nothing, masses a deathball and eventually just Spine pushes and wins. So frustrating :/ High Master's btw, so miscellaneous like macro are all all fine, it's just proper execution of the final engagement that gets me :/ And the right unit comp too! Thanks in advance! | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:31 Gumbi wrote: Also shield's costs more, and takes more time to research. But the above is the main reason. Btw, can anyone help me out with lategame PvZ, what is the ideal late game composition? I keep on crushing Zerg with multitasking. I somehow lost a game whereby I had the ENTIRE map of CK under my control, a bank of 10k 3k (still mining one base), Zerg turtling on natural fifth (by the cliffs). I fucked up the engagement somehow. Another game i had 4 mining bases on Daybreak, Zerg had 2, harassed a lot. I simply don't know how to properly execute the engagemnt. how many Carriers? Templar? Archons? One or two Colossuses to help vs Broodlings? Should I even have Stalkers at this stage? Void Rays any good? I get so mad, when I utterly crush Zerg with multi-tasking and harassment, I've spent all game (since about 8 mins anyway when Phoenix were revealed) harassing and scouting, Zerg does nothing, masses a deathball and eventually just Spine pushes and wins. So frustrating :/ High Master's btw, so miscellaneous like macro are all all fine, it's just proper execution of the final engagement that gets me :/ And the right unit comp too! Thanks in advance! Carrier HT, with a couple archons and possibly a couple colossi, depending on what the zerg has. VRs are better post-IT nerf, but not as good as carriers. It's hard to give an exact composition because it depends on your probe count, which in turn depends on how the game has panned out. Ideally you want ~12 carriers and at least that many HTs. Having archons (and maybe colossi) is useful if he still has broodlords, because HTs die to broodlings pretty quickly. The only problem with carriers is that they don't work as well with a mothership, because interceptors go into the vortex. Leaving the mothership behind lets you recall out of a bad fight, but you'll be forced to fight his whole army at once. | ||
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Kovaz
Canada233 Posts
On February 17 2013 09:31 Gumbi wrote: Also shield's costs more, and takes more time to research. But the above is the main reason. Btw, can anyone help me out with lategame PvZ, what is the ideal late game composition? I keep on crushing Zerg with multitasking. I somehow lost a game whereby I had the ENTIRE map of CK under my control, a bank of 10k 3k (still mining one base), Zerg turtling on natural fifth (by the cliffs). I fucked up the engagement somehow. Another game i had 4 mining bases on Daybreak, Zerg had 2, harassed a lot. I simply don't know how to properly execute the engagemnt. how many Carriers? Templar? Archons? One or two Colossuses to help vs Broodlings? Should I even have Stalkers at this stage? Void Rays any good? I get so mad, when I utterly crush Zerg with multi-tasking and harassment, I've spent all game (since about 8 mins anyway when Phoenix were revealed) harassing and scouting, Zerg does nothing, masses a deathball and eventually just Spine pushes and wins. So frustrating :/ High Master's btw, so miscellaneous like macro are all all fine, it's just proper execution of the final engagement that gets me :/ And the right unit comp too! Thanks in advance! It seems like top Korean tosses have decided that the best composition is like 4-6 or so carriers, mothership, 10-15 HTs with storm, and fill the rest with void rays. Basically the carriers can use their range to zone out the broodlords, and then your HTs can move forward and feedback infestors + storm everything. Some examples: PartinG v BBoongBBoong Game 2: http://www.gomtv.net/2013gsls1/vod/71485 MC v Losira Game 2: http://www.gomtv.net/2013gsls1/vod/71484 | ||
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
So what good safe builds for pvp are there and also how do i know when i can end the game by wininng, because when i try push out i lose somehow, it really is a coin flip. should i just keep 4gating and trying to hit at an earlier time (the earlier it hits that means the better my mechanics are) | ||
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Geiko
France1936 Posts
On February 17 2013 17:15 FireMonkey wrote: what do i do in pvp? i honestly am clueless on this match up it is like flipping a coin do decipher whether i'll win or not, even though im on double robo getting collosus i still lose. I used to like this match up when i could 4gate and win but now people do fancy crap to hold off 4gates so now i dont know what to do at all when the collsos battle comes even tho i have more he still wins somehow which i think is absolute crap. I have no idea how to read the match up, when am i supposed to take a third? fourth? when i do take thirds they come out off 2 base and still somehow have collosus deathball better than mine. Harrassment barely works because it sets you behind too much and most of the time does barely any damage.. So what good safe builds for pvp are there and also how do i know when i can end the game by wininng, because when i try push out i lose somehow, it really is a coin flip. should i just keep 4gating and trying to hit at an earlier time (the earlier it hits that means the better my mechanics are) First, work on a good FE build. Safest one out there it a nice 2 gate Robo Expand off of either 3 stalker rush or some kind of double gas before core sentry opening (or anything that you feel safe with). Then defend any all-in that he may be doing by scouting (1. scouting probe after core 2. checking what kind of units he is making, 3. observer in his base). If he is not all-inning and expanding, then you start to tech up. Start with getting a robo bay and a forge and 2 or 3 more gates,while making immortals and zealots mostly (except if he has phoenixes or immortal drops, you'll need some more stalkers). Then when you're sure he's not two base all-inning, (no probe cut, no weird tech choice (stargate units, zealot archon, ...)), get a second robo and start double colo production. (2base all-ins are usually stopped with a nice wall off at your natural). Once he gets his own 2nd robo, you can expand and take your third. If he doesn't, keep massing colossi on 2 bases and win. Now you just need a twilight council (before taking third most likely),upgrades to weapon +3, a templar archives, and a lot more gates. Stop colo production at 7 or 8, and start immortals again to have 5 or 6. And get 5 or 6 archons and charge. You can start sacking zealots to harass scout etc... around that time to free up supply. Take your 4th when you are close to maxed. If at any time in the game you have a significant advantage in unit count or tech, you need to pressure (not commit unless you know you will win) to prevent him from doing all the steps above as fast as you). During the engagement, you NEED a good concave, so do not attack up their ramp or something stupid (even with better army). Use zealots to distract opponent to get in a good position(and late game dts). Don't try to micro your army unless you know what you are doing, 1 a works fine. If you can target a clump of their colossi with yours, then do it, but don't lose too much dps trying to micro. Get a mothership only after you have maxed out and your armies have clashed once. And GL ! PvP is fun ! | ||
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
I really dont like late pvp as much as i do late game pvz/pvt so im hoping to end it during the mid game (preferably before collosus wars) | ||
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Geiko
France1936 Posts
On February 17 2013 20:03 FireMonkey wrote: Thanks, but what about blink stalkers in PvP how strong is a blink stalker opening in pvp? usually in pvz i will go for +2 7 gate blink stalker pressure because it is very strong and flexible against whatever they can throw at me in that time frame of attack and i usually snipe their third as well as outright win the game there and then. So how well does it work in pvp? what are the weaknesses to it? I really like doing blink stalkers they are fun to use in my opinion. When i do it in pvz i usually build up immortals in the background because they will mostly go for a roach all in counter attack once i snipe the third. I really dont like late pvp as much as i do late game pvz/pvt so im hoping to end it during the mid game (preferably before collosus wars) If you want to end the game in the mid-game, then yes a blink stalker build off of 2 base is generally the good solution. Key points: -You need a very fast expo -You need to cut probes at 40 or so -You need 6 gates I would work on a 2 gate FE with 3 stalker rush if he is playing aggressive, or stalker zealot sentry otherwise. Then once you learn to defend all types of 1 base play with this opening, the rest of the build is pretty straightforward. When you blink in his base, focus down the immortals obviously, and hope he didn't prepare well enough  Don't do this build if you don't have the burst economy of getting a very fast FE. | ||
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probeater
124 Posts
does it change the build timings or the amount of units i have at all? or is one just better/safer? | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
If you're going blink/observer, having a sentry early will probably not benefit you as much because there's no desperate need for you to FF your ramp against DTs for example as you already have detection and should identify a DT opening in time to make another observer to protect your main. You won't need the sentry that early vs gateway pressure because a 3 stalker rush should shut it down. With a blink stalker build, sentries can be used offensively to contain your opponent but it probably benefits you more to warp in a sentry or two once you see the potential to contain them. I'd say 3 stalker rush => blink is more "fluid" but it's also something that can be used against you if your opponent throws down a robo in anticipation. On the other hand of course, you can use that to trick your opponent into thinking you're going blink while actually going stargate to counter a robo build. PvP has tons of mindgames like that! About timings I'm not sure, let someone else tell you that. | ||
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Geiko
France1936 Posts
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DrSayius
12 Posts
I'll make sure to be more targeted and efficient in my upgrades going forward. | ||
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