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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On August 29 2011 07:53 schmarx wrote:
Perhaps it's a stupid question but is it ever acceptable to drop probe production to make a full warp in from your warpgates? I've had major trouble with doing full warp ins the entire time while keeping up probe production.
Also, what I've been wondering about: against a 2-rax/3-rax, what should your gateway unit mix look like?
You want to have enough sentry to make sure he can't kite you, you also don't want to over do it on stalkers they just die so easy and mara will destroy them in no time flat. zeals are your tanks, and deal the most damage (if you can stop terran from kiting them) thus you should be more zeals and some stalkers and just enough sentry to get the job done. I would say a 3zeal/2stalker/1sentry this depends on the game, how many marines he has to mara and so on. general rule of them is to have more zeals unless you grab blink first.
On August 29 2011 06:19 ChopSuey2 wrote:
What did I do wrong this game? PvZ has just about always been my hardest MU, i always simply get out expand and overrun it seems like. Help please.
well everything looked good until you scouted with halu and saw the roach warren but went for your twilight. Granted it's not 100% bad (you can out micro roaches with good FF's and blink micro) but you should have gone for a robo and clossi, this would also help so you don't engage on creep.
10:55 - you scout his 3rd w/ a halu very good, you should try and sneak a probe out for a proxy pylon
11:30 - 2nd or 3rd time you've been pylon blocked, try and avoid this at all costs. and you've finally put down your robo but it's almost too late at this point
12:57 pylon blocked again, at this point this has effected your supply count and your under him by about 20.
you had a decent engagement in the middle, and a ok trade as you went backwards but then he came forward and got a few fungles off and it was all down hill from their.
~Work on supply block
~React to what you see w/ your hallu (like stated above blink stalker can work, but it's a lot more hit and miss then clossi, and you have to out upgrade the zerg player)
~Harass - I know it can be hard, but even warping in a few zeals @ his 3rd to get him out of position can really change the flow of a game.
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Hi guys!
Can someone explain how to hold 6-10 pool on Taldarim. I send 2 probes one after pylon, one after forge (9 and 13 respectively) but im just a bit late like 15 sec (played game today I spawned at 2 , Z at 5)
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Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim.
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On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim.
Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices.
1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response.
2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool).
If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off.
i hope i made sense :s 
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On August 29 2011 11:15 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim. Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices. 1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response. 2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool). If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off. i hope i made sense :s
To defend 6 pool on ladder tal darim, you must build cannon by your nexus. To defend 6 pool on shakuras, you can wall off your nat and defend there.
First of all, go 13 forge.
If you scout him first or second position, great. On shak, stop making probes and build 2 more gateways first before your cannon to wall off. On tal darim, keep making probes, and just make a pylon and cannon by your main.
If you don't scout him second position (tal darim), make a pylon by your main. If he 6 pools you wouldn't have scouted it, but by the time lings arrive at your nat your forge and main pylon should be done. Make a cannon in your mineral line, and try to keep as many probes alive as you can until your cannon finishes.
If you respond correctly, the "luck" factor is: if you scout him first you are super far ahead, if you scout him second you are a good deal ahead, and if you scout him last you are a little ahead.
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what do i do on maps where i forge fast expand and the zerg takes an immediate high yield expansion as its main expansion and defends with mass speedlings
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On the topic of 6 pools I think this got missed on the last page so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. He went for a baneling nest right after the 6 pool and I can't figure out how not to die when the banelings can go right into the mineral line and the zerglings attack probes if I run them around.
On August 28 2011 14:31 whistle wrote:Hi... unsure how I should have played this game differently. Usually I can identify an obvious place where I screwed up i.e. macro or not scouting or horrific micro, but here I can't find the clear culprit. There were a few errors like misrallying my zealot, building a pylon in a bad spot, etc, but I don't think fixing them would have made me win... Diamond ladder PvZ, I go for a FFE on TDA. Pylon scout finds his 6 pool so I abandon my forward choke and build a pylon near my nexus. Forge goes up after the pylon, and afterwards a cannon in my mineral line. I hold off the initial few lings, then afterwards he doesn't come at me with a ton of lings so I scout to see whether he has expoed, is going for roaches, etc. Probe arrives at his base to see a baneling nest... I target fire his banelings with my cannon and survive the first wave but then my cannon is dead and more banelings come so I die. Any tips on how to approach this sort of all-in would be appreciated. Should I have made a second gate, or more cannons, or what? I thought I scouted the baneling nest pretty early (sent probe out soon after the pressure let up) but I still didn't have much time to prepare. http://drop.sc/29707Cheerio...
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Blah, I hate Protoss Macro. It's completely the opposite of Terran and really frustrates me to learn to get everything smooth.
Lost to this stim and ghost stuff, not sure what else I could have done besides macro harder:
http://drop.sc/29757
edit: Also, is it just me, or is the Protoss strategy section of liquipedia severely lacking compared to T and Z?
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On August 29 2011 11:28 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 11:15 pezzaperry wrote:On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim. Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices. 1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response. 2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool). If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off. i hope i made sense :s To defend 6 pool on ladder tal darim, you must build cannon by your nexus. To defend 6 pool on shakuras, you can wall off your nat and defend there. First of all, go 13 forge. If you scout him first or second position, great. On shak, stop making probes and build 2 more gateways first before your cannon to wall off. On tal darim, keep making probes, and just make a pylon and cannon by your main. If you don't scout him second position (tal darim), make a pylon by your main. If he 6 pools you wouldn't have scouted it, but by the time lings arrive at your nat your forge and main pylon should be done. Make a cannon in your mineral line, and try to keep as many probes alive as you can until your cannon finishes. If you respond correctly, the "luck" factor is: if you scout him first you are super far ahead, if you scout him second you are a good deal ahead, and if you scout him last you are a little ahead.
hmm why would you be able to do it on shakuras but not tal darim? tal darim has longer distance between bases iirc... also you can block tal darim with forge/gate/gate/cannon, same with shakuras. I've held lots of 6pools off on tal darim this way (look at HuK vs Moon finals in a tourney).
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On August 29 2011 11:28 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 11:15 pezzaperry wrote:On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim. Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices. 1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response. 2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool). If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off. i hope i made sense :s To defend 6 pool on ladder tal darim, you must build cannon by your nexus. To defend 6 pool on shakuras, you can wall off your nat and defend there. First of all, go 13 forge. If you scout him first or second position, great. On shak, stop making probes and build 2 more gateways first before your cannon to wall off. On tal darim, keep making probes, and just make a pylon and cannon by your main. If you don't scout him second position (tal darim), make a pylon by your main. If he 6 pools you wouldn't have scouted it, but by the time lings arrive at your nat your forge and main pylon should be done. Make a cannon in your mineral line, and try to keep as many probes alive as you can until your cannon finishes. If you respond correctly, the "luck" factor is: if you scout him first you are super far ahead, if you scout him second you are a good deal ahead, and if you scout him last you are a little ahead.
What if he is doing a later pool, say 8-10? In other words it's not an all in. On maps where you can't wall off with 3 buildings (say Shattered Temple) you have to cannon in main but obviously cannot expand and you lose 250 min right away (pylon and forge). In the meantime, zerg can either expand or get roaches and is in a much better position. I'm surprised more zergs don't do this.
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On August 29 2011 13:13 eugalp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 11:28 Anihc wrote:On August 29 2011 11:15 pezzaperry wrote:On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim. Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices. 1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response. 2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool). If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off. i hope i made sense :s To defend 6 pool on ladder tal darim, you must build cannon by your nexus. To defend 6 pool on shakuras, you can wall off your nat and defend there. First of all, go 13 forge. If you scout him first or second position, great. On shak, stop making probes and build 2 more gateways first before your cannon to wall off. On tal darim, keep making probes, and just make a pylon and cannon by your main. If you don't scout him second position (tal darim), make a pylon by your main. If he 6 pools you wouldn't have scouted it, but by the time lings arrive at your nat your forge and main pylon should be done. Make a cannon in your mineral line, and try to keep as many probes alive as you can until your cannon finishes. If you respond correctly, the "luck" factor is: if you scout him first you are super far ahead, if you scout him second you are a good deal ahead, and if you scout him last you are a little ahead. What if he is doing a later pool, say 8-10? In other words it's not an all in. On maps where you can't wall off with 3 buildings (say Shattered Temple) you have to cannon in main but obviously cannot expand and you lose 250 min right away (pylon and forge). In the meantime, zerg can either expand or get roaches and is in a much better position. I'm surprised more zergs don't do this.
If the zerg doesn't 6pool you should be able to get the cannon at ur front done with a gayway on the way, pull probes and stall the zerglings at the front/ramp near the cannon and you'll be fine (a few rogue lings may run inside ur base but nothing u can attack with probes)
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On August 29 2011 13:10 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 11:28 Anihc wrote:On August 29 2011 11:15 pezzaperry wrote:On August 29 2011 11:00 starbreaker10 wrote:
Hey, i have a very similar question to the guy above me: what is the proper reaction to a 6 pool on tal darim and shakuras, when you're FFEing???
-to make things more clear for Corisca above me, im pretty sure a 6-7 pool requires a different reaction than a 9-10 pool (not so sure about 8 pool).... ive comfortably held 9-10 pools while holding my expo area, but its the earlier pool that get me. i know you should build pylon and cannon near ur nexus and mineral line, and transition into a standard game from there, with a significant worker lead. ~now that i write this it seems like it comes down to luck in terms of spawn position and scouting, esp on tal darim. Yes on tal darim you have to account for that 'luck' factor. If scout him first and there's no pool and he's FEing then skip the forge and go nexus. If you scout him second you need a forge, so after you realise you didn't scout him first drop a forge at about 13 supply. If you don't scout him second you have 2 choices. 1) Be greedy and wait until you scout him to do the correct response. 2) Throw a gateway down (very safe you will hold 6pool). If you scout a 6pool make sure to completely stop probe production, throw down a cannon as early as you can (you want it before your 2nd gateway, because you want it near complete by the time the lings get to you, and then throw a 2nd gateway down to completely wall off. i hope i made sense :s To defend 6 pool on ladder tal darim, you must build cannon by your nexus. To defend 6 pool on shakuras, you can wall off your nat and defend there. First of all, go 13 forge. If you scout him first or second position, great. On shak, stop making probes and build 2 more gateways first before your cannon to wall off. On tal darim, keep making probes, and just make a pylon and cannon by your main. If you don't scout him second position (tal darim), make a pylon by your main. If he 6 pools you wouldn't have scouted it, but by the time lings arrive at your nat your forge and main pylon should be done. Make a cannon in your mineral line, and try to keep as many probes alive as you can until your cannon finishes. If you respond correctly, the "luck" factor is: if you scout him first you are super far ahead, if you scout him second you are a good deal ahead, and if you scout him last you are a little ahead. hmm why would you be able to do it on shakuras but not tal darim? tal darim has longer distance between bases iirc... also you can block tal darim with forge/gate/gate/cannon, same with shakuras. I've held lots of 6pools off on tal darim this way (look at HuK vs Moon finals in a tourney).
ladder tal darim not the same as tal darim used in most tourneys. You can't block with 3 buildings on ladder tal darim but you can on gsl tal darim.
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On August 29 2011 12:58 whistle wrote:On the topic of 6 pools I think this got missed on the last page so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. He went for a baneling nest right after the 6 pool and I can't figure out how not to die when the banelings can go right into the mineral line and the zerglings attack probes if I run them around. Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 14:31 whistle wrote:Hi... unsure how I should have played this game differently. Usually I can identify an obvious place where I screwed up i.e. macro or not scouting or horrific micro, but here I can't find the clear culprit. There were a few errors like misrallying my zealot, building a pylon in a bad spot, etc, but I don't think fixing them would have made me win... Diamond ladder PvZ, I go for a FFE on TDA. Pylon scout finds his 6 pool so I abandon my forward choke and build a pylon near my nexus. Forge goes up after the pylon, and afterwards a cannon in my mineral line. I hold off the initial few lings, then afterwards he doesn't come at me with a ton of lings so I scout to see whether he has expoed, is going for roaches, etc. Probe arrives at his base to see a baneling nest... I target fire his banelings with my cannon and survive the first wave but then my cannon is dead and more banelings come so I die. Any tips on how to approach this sort of all-in would be appreciated. Should I have made a second gate, or more cannons, or what? I thought I scouted the baneling nest pretty early (sent probe out soon after the pressure let up) but I still didn't have much time to prepare. http://drop.sc/29707Cheerio...
After I successfully defend a 6 pool I like to go 2 gate chrono'ed zealots. Zealots are actually not that bad against banelings, and are great to pressure a zerg that tries to turn it into a macro game.
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On August 29 2011 06:11 Mcdank79 wrote:
Hey I've been playing starcraft 2 a decent amount. I just started getting into sc2 and my buddy is a top diamond league player but is too dumb to teach me decent techniques except for telling me to (get this). I usually play protoss decently for a casual player. Does anyone have any tips on what builds would be best for me to become a decent 1v1 player. Also any ideas for 3v3??
Go for solid builds, they will improve your mechanics over time and you will experience most situations in the game. I'd reccomend 3gate robo as a basic build for PvP and PvT, then 3gate expand for PvZ. 3v3: just rush, 4gate etc.
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On August 29 2011 14:47 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 12:58 whistle wrote:On the topic of 6 pools I think this got missed on the last page so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. He went for a baneling nest right after the 6 pool and I can't figure out how not to die when the banelings can go right into the mineral line and the zerglings attack probes if I run them around. On August 28 2011 14:31 whistle wrote:Hi... unsure how I should have played this game differently. Usually I can identify an obvious place where I screwed up i.e. macro or not scouting or horrific micro, but here I can't find the clear culprit. There were a few errors like misrallying my zealot, building a pylon in a bad spot, etc, but I don't think fixing them would have made me win... Diamond ladder PvZ, I go for a FFE on TDA. Pylon scout finds his 6 pool so I abandon my forward choke and build a pylon near my nexus. Forge goes up after the pylon, and afterwards a cannon in my mineral line. I hold off the initial few lings, then afterwards he doesn't come at me with a ton of lings so I scout to see whether he has expoed, is going for roaches, etc. Probe arrives at his base to see a baneling nest... I target fire his banelings with my cannon and survive the first wave but then my cannon is dead and more banelings come so I die. Any tips on how to approach this sort of all-in would be appreciated. Should I have made a second gate, or more cannons, or what? I thought I scouted the baneling nest pretty early (sent probe out soon after the pressure let up) but I still didn't have much time to prepare. http://drop.sc/29707Cheerio... After I successfully defend a 6 pool I like to go 2 gate chrono'ed zealots. Zealots are actually not that bad against banelings, and are great to pressure a zerg that tries to turn it into a macro game.
I 100% agree - to understand why this works, you need to consider the underlying mechanics of zerg. Even though your zealots will most likely end up dead eventually against a competent zerg, you are trading zealots for larvae at this point. And since zerg has had (basicly by definition) no time to macro up drones, each and every larvae that can't become a drone hurts zerg tremendously.
All the while YOU can macro up yourself behind all that. Depending on how much damage you are able to do, you can either go for a 2nd base or kill him outright. If you feel you can kill him off one base, I really recommend a stargate and voidrays, since the zerg will in 9 out of 10 cases produce lings and maybe spines for defense and try to transition into a late lair economy style.
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So, I'm a masters level Zerg, but I tanked my account down to diamond playing random, as I intend to switch fully to random to understand all the match-ups better and enjoy spectating the sport more.
So, given my previous fairly strong zerg play, I do not need the standard mechanic based gameplay advice, but I realized that my timing sense as protoss is extremely weak. First off, I really feel like I don't understand PvP.
I know how to scout the initial gas to make sure I'm not getting 2 gated, and I open up with my own gate into core, throw 2 chrono boosts on probes and rest on warpgate research. By this time both the bases are closed off by a zealot and a stalker or sentry.
Now, what do I do?
I feel like the only situation I beat games in this state is if I throw down 3 more gates and brute-force my way into their base, and this'll mostly only work if they went for some tech route. I end up with 24 probes (17 on minerals, 6 on gas and one with the army) and just try to break them with a 4gate.
But I have lost to good defensive 4gates so easily, and I've also lost to blink stalkers, fast immortals or anything.
As a former zerg player I like to play reactive instead of going all-in, but I have a huge problem with the information gap, I simply don't know what the enemy is doing behind that core/gate/zealot wall until I get an observer out.... but if I go robo and obs first... I die should he have been doing a 4gate.
another thing that bothers me. If I go a defensive 4gate, I can hold most everything, but where do I go from there? If he went blink stalkers, he has map control, if he went defensive 4gate too it becomes a game of chicken who wants to throw down the nexus. Can I use cannons or something to create a defender's advantage?
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It's all about scouting. What you need to look for is: early gate, one gas, lots of energy on the nexus saved up. These are mostly indicators of 4gate and if you see none there is no reason to go defensive 4gate, you rather tech or be aggressive with proxy pylons.
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On August 29 2011 21:33 Palmar wrote:Snip
I think the most important thing to look for is timing. A 4gate attack usually hits around the 6 minute mark if I remember correctly. So if the game has gone past the 7-8 minute mark, you can start to rule things out. If he's going 3gate blink, he will probably try to be aggressive at around 8 minutes or so. You can use this information to your advantage. Knowing if it's safe to tech.
Tech is extremely valuable in PvP. Usually it's worth it if you can get Robo tech up without dying, as you will be safe vs DT, and a lot safer to a 1base Colossi rush or something like that.
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Whats the best response to a roach/ling all in when you FFE? I try to keep my scouting probe alive long enough to delay an expo and get as much info as I can when I FFE, cuz then I am usually blind for the next few minutes until I get an obs or hallucination. I usually don't expect zerg to do this so when it does happen I feel very unprepared as I usually only place a couple cannons at the choke of my natural.
In a recent game I lost, I scouted the usual 1 gas, zerg droning hard and then I went to delay what I thought was his expo. However, he just dropped a roach warren after this and spammed roaches and lings and pushed my base with a significantly bigger army when I still only had a few units up. I feel like after I lose my initial probe I should immediately send another probe to check for an expo. If I don't see one at that point should I expect an all in? And how many cannons should I build to defend the push? 2 is nowhere near enough, they did almost nothing.
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On August 29 2011 21:33 Palmar wrote:
Now, what do I do?
I feel like the only situation I beat games in this state is if I throw down 3 more gates and brute-force my way into their base, and this'll mostly only work if they went for some tech route. I end up with 24 probes (17 on minerals, 6 on gas and one with the army) and just try to break them with a 4gate.
But I have lost to good defensive 4gates so easily, and I've also lost to blink stalkers, fast immortals or anything.
As a former zerg player I like to play reactive instead of going all-in, but I have a huge problem with the information gap, I simply don't know what the enemy is doing behind that core/gate/zealot wall until I get an observer out.... but if I go robo and obs first... I die should he have been doing a 4gate.
another thing that bothers me. If I go a defensive 4gate, I can hold most everything, but where do I go from there? If he went blink stalkers, he has map control, if he went defensive 4gate too it becomes a game of chicken who wants to throw down the nexus. Can I use cannons or something to create a defender's advantage?
I'm only High Diamond NA, but here's my feedback on your PvP questions.
1. You shouldn't have 6 probes on gas when you're 4 gating. The excess gas only allows for excess sentry production which contributes very little to your PvP matchup. Considering that 4 gate's pivotal point is pushing up/defending the ramp which can be blocked up with a single forcefield, there is no need them to have them in mass when you can choose a tankier zealot or mobile stalker instead.
2. If you want an alternative build that gives you a lot more control of the game, try the one I'm using 10-Gate, Fast Robo:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238165
Essentially this build allows you to have 2 immortals out before a 4-gate hits along with production with 2 gateways which makes nearly impossible for the 4 gate to break up your ramp. I've never lost to a 4-gate with this build, give it a shot. I'm maintaining a 68% PvP win ratio with it, losing primarily to late scout 2-gates.
3. I rarely ever expand in PvP. After a 4-gate is held off, the investment to expand and tech is gigantic and takes a long time: Nexus/Probes, Robo, Bay, Thermal. The expand and tech costs translates to ~12 stalkers before getting a single colossus out. Additionally you'll find that the tech time will be delayed intermittently because you'll be gas starved since you should have started only with one gas. It puts whoever expands at a heavy disadvantage if their opponent chooses not to. From my experience, the best way to follow up defending a 4gate is to throw down a forge and push out as soon as +1 attack is finished.
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EPT
