The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 378

BACKGROUND: I'm a Platinum Protoss and I've been really trying to do the same openign agaisnt Terrans everytime because I'm trying to work it out to a place where it will be safe against everything and still strong enough to win me the game (maybe thats obvious ). I got my opening from watching a Day9 daily on PvT openings, then from studying the Protoss in question's (SaSe) other replays to get extra info not covered in the daily.

Opening BO:
+ Show Spoiler +

THE POINT OF THIS POST: I wil lay out my gameplan/noob assumptions/meta/tactics on the table with nothing held back. If you (or another extremely generous Terran that this topic is geared towards, seriously, you are a BOSS for starting this thread, I hope it grows really quickly) would be so kind as to rip it apart, tell me where I'm totally wrong, totally smart, or just plain confused on stuff that would be GREAT!!! Obviously I'm talking the stuff specific to interaction with Terrans (I don't expect you to correct protoss-y stuff.

So basically, my gameplan is to A) survive 1 base attacks that hit <7:00 B)Punish early expands with 7-8:00 push C.1)KILL HIM C.2)Do some (typically econ) damage, then contain until 9:30ish when medivacs/stim bio come out then pull back D)win in a macro game with a good economic lead already established and support with WP harass and/or (especially when heavy SCV losses are inflicted early) DT harass

My first zealot walks up his ramp, typically sees a bunker and some Marines + Show Spoiler +(sometimes a maruader or two) at his natural with a CC building/completed/whatever, the earlier he took it the better for my push. at 6:00, then 1 cooldown later I warp in at his front with 1 Zealot and 5 stalkers so my army is 3 Zealots, 2 Sentires, and 5 stalkers just before 7:00. I march up his ramp and micro my units (FF bunkers to prevent repairs or if they are empty to prevent marines from getting in) and try to push in as much as possible. I macro probes and warp in more units as needed depending on how the battle went. Worst case scenario we trade evenly and no econ damage is done (other than some lost mining time on a few scvs or something), best case scenario is (as long as I don't just KILL him) I push him back into his main and deny any expansion until he has medivacs/stim at around the 10:00 mark, either scenario I then pull back onto my colossus tech, constructing 3rd base and bigger army. I get out a warp prism and drop 4 zealots (sometimes DT's/HT's with storm) later on)into his natural mineral line as soon as I see him move out (whether it be a drop or push at the front), and continue to do so every time he is about to pressure me (I keep a vigilant watch on watchtowers/obs at the front) while trying to NOT DIE while I get out colossus tech followed by HT's with storm. When I drop, if econ damage isn't an option I try to snipe EBays>Starports/reactors>Production. I get up to 200/200, 3/3, charge, etc, etc. then engage him on MY terms and hopefully force out a gg. FF's. Storms, and Colossi and my gosu platinum micro are typically enough.

A more specific question that I forgot to mention after writing ^that: Is that 7-8 minute push (3 Z, 2 Sentry, 5 Stalkers) scary against a typical FE build? It was in all the SaSe games I've watched, but that amounts to a total of 10 games or something, and in all those games the T went for greedy FE builds (1 rax->CC was what it was mostly, is that normal against P?) I'm trying to get to masters by the end of 2012, so as I go up the rankings, will this gameplan (especially the early part) continue to serve me well (assuming no drastic shifts in metagame/HoTS stuff)? Is it a silly gambit that is only paying off against plat/diamond T's?

I would say that pro Terrans will rax cc about 80% of their games nowadays. Yes, that nexus 3 gate attack can be pretty threatening to pro players but it's basically a coinflip. If he builds 2 bunkers he is safe and he can potentially hold with 1 too if scvs are pulled. If you don't do damage you are pretty far behind but not horribly lost, and if you realize you can't break him but he pulled scvs, you can just target scvs while chronoing probes and come off ok. You just never want to trade your entire army and not smash his position. All in all I think it's an excellent choice if your goal is simply to get to masters. Honestly I can't see many
The most important thing with it is you cannot let the Terran sneak their scv into your base once you've committed to it and you also need to be able to take the watchtower and prevent them from seeing your moveout/forward pylon. It's a pretty awkward build though since you normally go zealot -> stalker -> sentry and with this your stalker is so late, so its harder to deny a scout and you are more vulnerable to certain early timings.

The warp prism idea is excellent and I cannot emphasize how important that is. Almost none of the non-kespa pro players do it yet it is so powerful.

The one thing I was concerned about reading your description is where you allocated your attention (80-90% on the early game, with the rest almost an after thought). That attack is not particularly allin, and versus decent players you will most likely not actually kill/cripple them with it if they have some kind of experience against it. If you want to improve you need to have a much more concrete plan in the midgame and focus on that more. I'm guessing that low level players simply can't handle that 3 gate timing if they rax cc but once you go up in level people will be more capable of holding it. Let me give you some questions you should be considering for the midgame (assuming you come off even from the opening and he does rax cc):

1) How do you defend against the first 2 medivac timing attack/elevator?
2) When do you get forges?
3) When do you get charge/blink?
4) As you are going colossus first, how do you stop them from dropping you to death? Because you are making a warp prism, how many observers can you squeeze out? Are you max chronoing the robo?
5) When do you take your third? Do you know the difference in Terran play between the third cc off of 3 barracks and starport and more heavy 2 base 5 rax/medivac before 3rd cc and how to react to each?
6) When do you stop making colossus? When is the templar transition? When do you start remaking colossus and adding a second robo?