EPT
Any help is appreciated, Thank You :D <3
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 369
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Tunnel
United States9 Posts
Any help is appreciated, Thank You :D <3 | ||
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strobeLite
United States37 Posts
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StraTkSloth
United States181 Posts
On November 12 2012 05:48 Tunnel wrote: I've never opened colossi in PvT, always going the Templar route into that scary colossus switch. I wanted to start incorporating them though and so was hoping if anyone knew any good colossi openings in PvT (more than 1 please :D) like the range less colossus into quick Templar thing I've been seeing recently or something... I can't seem to find the proper builds anywhere nor can I find a replay for the life of me T.T. And some advice on how to play these type of openings out, i.e. when to be aggressive, reactions to xyz, third timing, etc, would be amazing! Any help is appreciated, Thank You :D <3 I never went colossus, they are a waste of minerals you could have spent on zealots and gas for upgrades. Getting more zealots and out upgrading a terran will kill them every time. What I do however is hallucinate 2 colli to force them to make Vikings. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On November 12 2012 05:48 Tunnel wrote: I've never opened colossi in PvT, always going the Templar route into that scary colossus switch. I wanted to start incorporating them though and so was hoping if anyone knew any good colossi openings in PvT (more than 1 please :D) like the range less colossus into quick Templar thing I've been seeing recently or something... I can't seem to find the proper builds anywhere nor can I find a replay for the life of me T.T. And some advice on how to play these type of openings out, i.e. when to be aggressive, reactions to xyz, third timing, etc, would be amazing! Any help is appreciated, Thank You :D <3 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 is slightly outdated but it remains a strong Colossus opening. There's no updated articles on either single forge colossus openings, or colossus fake into templar in sc2 strat forum. 2base Colossus with a single forge, in a nutshell, goes like this more or less: 1) Some kind of expand (like a standard 1gate fe) into 3gate/robo infrastructure, get a forge up for upgrades and start your colossus tech when you have both gasses at the natural and a healthy economy (forge before colossus tech is better if you aren't looking to hit a tming). 2) Go up to 5-6 gates before taking a third unless the Terran is playing greedy (fast 3cc and double eng bay or whatever), in which case you can take the third before adding the gates. 3) Research +1 armor first as it's really strong vs modern marine-heavy medivac timings, +1 attack right after, line up your Twilight Council to finish together with +1 attack so you can. I like to go blink before charge with colossus builds, to use my stalkers for drop defense and especially to protect the Colossi. 12 is a good stalker count. 4) Make 3 colossi before cutting. Once you secure your third, head into Templar tech. I can't remember any pro vods off the top of my head...i think JYP did something like this in gsl though. For 1colossus -> Templar, i think Parting's done it a bunch of times on Entombed Valley. | ||
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ImSoSerious
United States6 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Without infestor support, your colossi and archons should immediately clean up all his lings and then his broods are easily exposed to a blink-in. It sounds like either you were too far behind during the final fight or blinked in too early and got all your stalkers killed by his lings. | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3292 Posts
On November 13 2012 06:35 Teoita wrote: League/replay? Without infestor support, your colossi and archons should immediately clean up all his lings and then his broods are easily exposed to a blink-in. It sounds like either you were too far behind during the final fight or blinked in too early and got all your stalkers killed by his lings. Sounds like he played to passive as a protoss player and let him skip making gas units, or took to much dmg in the early game. | ||
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frito
Canada33 Posts
I usually FFE and have 1 zealot at my choke but during an attack that one zealot will get over run if a lot of zerglings show up and i dont notice to warp in more zealots or my gates are on cooldown (50% cool down, 50% not noticing) should I make sure i always have some cannons at my wall? should i have more than 1 just for occasions like this? do people build extra gateways so there are no cooldown issues? | ||
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Davron
United States86 Posts
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Ragnar1
Australia88 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:26 frito wrote: what is the normal way to deal with suprise zergling run ins into your base? I usually FFE and have 1 zealot at my choke but during an attack that one zealot will get over run if a lot of zerglings show up and i dont notice to warp in more zealots or my gates are on cooldown (50% cool down, 50% not noticing) should I make sure i always have some cannons at my wall? should i have more than 1 just for occasions like this? do people build extra gateways so there are no cooldown issues? Extra cannons are band-aid, don't do it unless its some kind of all-in (roach, bane etc). If your warp-in is on cool down you can always block with another pylon or building to buy time to get some units out. It's better to work on your reaction time and lose games like this than over build static defense. | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
I'm not really sure how to scout between my initial probe and when my observers are out. I feel like Zerg could go into either an all-in or greedy play and by the time my observer's out it's too late to react. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On November 14 2012 13:43 MysteryHours wrote: I'm having trouble scouting Zerg early game. I just played a game where Zerg started his Pool around 1:40 (12 pool?), which seemed early, and there was no hatch when my probe was chased out by lings. I assumed some kind of all-in but it turns out he quickly double expanded after my scout was killed, so now I'm way behind preparing for a bust. I'm not really sure how to scout between my initial probe and when my observers are out. I feel like Zerg could go into either an all-in or greedy play and by the time my observer's out it's too late to react. You can scout with more than one probe After your first scout dies, check for a third ~4:30-5:00. If no third then prepare for bust. Generally, he can't bust without gas. If he doesn't take a fast gas, he can't bust. Try to scout his gas (with probes!), but his third timing is super important. Take a tower if you can, you can even sac your first zlot to his third to see if he's taken it or not (risky vs speedling plays though...so be careful) | ||
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Chylith
Canada167 Posts
On November 14 2012 13:43 MysteryHours wrote: I'm having trouble scouting Zerg early game. I just played a game where Zerg started his Pool around 1:40 (12 pool?), which seemed early, and there was no hatch when my probe was chased out by lings. I assumed some kind of all-in but it turns out he quickly double expanded after my scout was killed, so now I'm way behind preparing for a bust. I'm not really sure how to scout between my initial probe and when my observers are out. I feel like Zerg could go into either an all-in or greedy play and by the time my observer's out it's too late to react. In the case of a 10 pool or above just scout again with a second probe for a third, then a natural if no third at around 4:30 If your probe gets denied you have a couple options. If speed hasn't finished yet you can just send your first zealot to confirm if there's a third or not, no third = chrono out sentries and build one or two more cannons(and scout his natural. ;p no natural = feel free to go even more crazy on the cannons) go stargate instead of robo if you scout no third, also do that if you even scout no natural. A note on why we get stargate if you scout no third(or 1 base zerg): + Show Spoiler + Stargate combined with sentries allows you to scout quite comfortably and since you get a void out first it makes it a lot easier to hold any allin(such as a roach allin, nydus, etc) since no zerg two base allins shoot upwards except for 2 base mutas, which is dealt with by making chronoed phoenix after scouting the spire building with your first phoenix(made after the initial void, chrono both units obviously) If speed has finished your best bet is probably to go for a stargate, rather than a robo. build a void ray then a phoenix, chrono both and send the phoenix to scout what he's doing. If he has taken a third after a 12 or earlier pool and has speed early enough and enough lings to deny even a zealot scout that sets him fairly far behind on drone count etc compared to just a standard 14p 15h 18h. You won't be far behind if at all as long as you didn't waste money adding extra cannons. The alternative to that is to constantly build sentries and get a faster robo, skip the obs and instead go straight into immortal production(Chronoed) with the aim of going for an immortal/sentry allin. Why you'd do this is because it protects you from "most" one and two base allins(everything that's not a 2 base muta build basically, assuming you keep good vision of your base to make sure you don't get nydused) and allows you to then go and kill him at 9 minutes if he hasn't pushed by then. The stuff he'd need to defend vs a proper immortal/sentry allin will be so delayed by the early pool, fast speed, and enough lings to deny scouting that he won't have enough units to hold the allin if he goes for 3 hatch afterwards. The biggest issue you might run into if you attempt this, since you're playing fairly blind, is a 2 base muta build which will hit around as you're moving out. You're not really in a good spot but you can still win vs it, you'll most likely have to do a base trade however. | ||
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IceBergZ
Malaysia176 Posts
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hecticSc
Romania76 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:51 Davron wrote: How do I scout a fast roach push when I FFE? They hit as my first sentry is about to come out. Check for third base, if it's not there, it's prolly roach-ling or baneling bust allin. Two base muta can be possible if he doesnt attack before 7m. If you dont see 3rd you need to either: sneak a probe into main and see tech, sacrifice a zealot to scout main hold watch towers against his lings The moment you see it coming cancel probes and slam down 2-3 cannons. | ||
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HomieStoney
United States6 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:26 frito wrote: what is the normal way to deal with suprise zergling run ins into your base? I usually FFE and have 1 zealot at my choke but during an attack that one zealot will get over run if a lot of zerglings show up and i dont notice to warp in more zealots or my gates are on cooldown (50% cool down, 50% not noticing) should I make sure i always have some cannons at my wall? should i have more than 1 just for occasions like this? do people build extra gateways so there are no cooldown issues? You CAN build extra cannons to deal with run-by's, but it's a temporary solution to a much larger problem which is that you need to work on your mini-map awareness and reaction time. If your army is ever in a position where lings COULD run-by and your ball isn't nearby to stop it, you should be at maximum awareness for this. Leave a sentry behind the zealot at the wall-in. Some pros still do this, though it's also not optimal. You only want more than 1 cannon if you're fairly sure zerg is going to be continually counter-attacking with their entire army when you move out. People do not build extra gateways for those kinds of issues, rather they cboost them. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 15 2012 23:56 HomieStoney wrote: Hey guys, I've been playing SC2 for about 2 months now, i'm a bronze/silver league Protoss. I've been having a lot of trouble with PvT when Terran goes for a Marine/Marauder build with stim and concussive shells. I always try a 1 or 2 gate fast expo with a couple quick sentrys, stalkers and a few zealots, a forge for quick armor and i just get smashed everytime. i've tried to vary a little from my build a little, i would just like some tips on how to deal with this. Thanks guys Practice the build order here a few times against the computer until you feel comfortable that you can get your first warp-in at 6:00 (6 total units) and your second warp-in by 6:40 (9 total units). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339 Use the "If you see a marauder" branch after the opening build order. Edit: fixed link--apparently I'd linked to a PvZ guide accidentally. This is the right link now. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On November 15 2012 23:56 HomieStoney wrote: Hey guys, I've been playing SC2 for about 2 months now, i'm a bronze/silver league Protoss. I've been having a lot of trouble with PvT when Terran goes for a Marine/Marauder build with stim and concussive shells. I always try a 1 or 2 gate fast expo with a couple quick sentrys, stalkers and a few zealots, a forge for quick armor and i just get smashed everytime. i've tried to vary a little from my build a little, i would just like some tips on how to deal with this. Thanks guys It sounds like you are playing against a 3rax all-in, so: The simple answer is just "make a ton of shit off 3-4 gates and a robo". A more complete answer woud be: you are right that 1gate expand is the best opening for PvT out there, and i recommend reading this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 or this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339 so you can copy a nicely refined build; try to keep your timings as close as possible to kcdc's or mc's. In general, you should focus on units rather than upgrades or tech until you know he has expanded with an observer or probe scout. The scouting part is harder as at the level you play at, people generally do things that don't make sense, but a solid build should account for all the possibilities regardless. Against an all-in like that (i assume it's off one base) you want 4-5 sentries (practice that ff micro!), a few stalkers, and as many zealots and immortals as humanly possible. The replay of MC vs MVP on Shattered Temple in the first thread is similar enough to what you face that it should be a very good guide to learn from; also in one of kcdc's replays in his thread he beats a 3rax all-in on Antiga Shipyard. | ||
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HomieStoney
United States6 Posts
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