EPTReplay: http://drop.sc/273215
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 367
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Chandra
United States123 Posts
Replay: http://drop.sc/273215 | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
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Asymptote1
121 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:15 Chandra wrote: How do you hold a 10 gate, 3/4 gate all-in in PvP? In this particular game I opened with a 3 stalker rush and tried to get my second and third stalkers out faster than usual. But he had two zealots and a probe at my ramp when I only had one stalker, and got his first warp in at 5:20. I probably should have pulled probes to kill the pylon on top of my ramp and pressure his warping in units, but that aside what could I have done? Seems really hard to hold. Replay: http://drop.sc/273215 It isn't letting me download the replay, but if I had to offer advice I would say this. You need to see the build coming a mile away (easier said then done?), the first time you get into his base (from scouting on 12) you need to keep checking his gasses, 1 gas = potential 4 gate, also check the timing of his cyber core, because he will be checking the timing of yours as well. And if he thinks his cyber is faster then yours by enough time then he might just go for a 4 gate because of that and with a slow core you will probably die. Overall you wanna wall yourself in to your main if you think the 4 gate is coming, with 1 gateway, then a cybercore next to it, then either the pylon next to that with the rest of your gateways built right behind it or just walling completely with gateways w.e. This usually buys you the time you need to get the immortals out (gateway units might keep you even with him during the attack, but the immortals are there to actually give you a lead). Basic build order. 1gateway 1 Robo Add 2 more gateways (Take a second gas somewhere between steps 2 and 3) | ||
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Chandra
United States123 Posts
On November 08 2012 14:23 .kv wrote: You have to pull probes with the opening you did...can't watch rep atm but generally 3 stalker opening should be enough...you want to focus your chronos on gates not the research and just constantly make units...remember he cut his probe production tremendously...it means you can lose a few...you also want at least 3 gates in total before wg research is done Yeah, not pulling probes was probably the main thing that cost me the game. I also should have chronoed 2 more stalkers instead of my core when I scouted that he went 10 gate. Thanks for the advice. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On November 08 2012 14:27 Asymptote1 wrote: It isn't letting me download the replay, but if I had to offer advice I would say this. You need to see the build coming a mile away (easier said then done?), the first time you get into his base (from scouting on 12) you need to keep checking his gasses, 1 gas = potential 4 gate, also check the timing of his cyber core, because he will be checking the timing of yours as well. And if he thinks his cyber is faster then yours by enough time then he might just go for a 4 gate because of that and with a slow core you will probably die. Overall you wanna wall yourself in to your main if you think the 4 gate is coming, with 1 gateway, then a cybercore next to it, then either the pylon next to that with the rest of your gateways built right behind it or just walling completely with gateways w.e. This usually buys you the time you need to get the immortals out (gateway units might keep you even with him during the attack, but the immortals are there to actually give you a lead). Basic build order. 1gateway 1 Robo Add 2 more gateways (Take a second gas somewhere between steps 2 and 3) Fully walling off in PvP is silly unless you do it as a reaction to dt/zealot-archon/4gate phoenix. 1Gate into tech can't get the tech up (blink or immortals or whatever) done for any kind of warpgate push. What .kv posted is correct. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
On November 08 2012 10:20 probeater wrote: when you say 2-3 base strategies do you mean all-ins? if so, what are they (other than partings) Look at my posted video, for example. It's a 3 base push on Antiga. I mean, simply said, you can do every combination of Gateway units off 10 Gates (on 3 base), some heavy damage dealers (DTs, Colossi, HTs, Archons) and try to move out around 170 supply with a warp prism and/or proxy pylons. This is what I do on nearly every map but especially on Antiga. 3 base strategies are just amazingly strong on Antiga because you can hold your 3rd easily and there are some great choke-points to catch the Zerg army. @ HelpMeGetBetter: I will look at your replays soon, I'm at the university right now. Maybe I will find some concerns why you lost. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:13 Teoita wrote: Fully walling off in PvP is silly unless you do it as a reaction to dt/zealot-archon/4gate phoenix. 1Gate into tech can't get the tech up (blink or immortals or whatever) done for any kind of warpgate push. What .kv posted is correct. idk why but you just blew my mind with that one...how in the world did i not think about that :/ lol | ||
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
How can i harass the zerg around b4 the 10 min mark to keep his eco in check? i try to place forward pylons some places but they usually gets killed. and if i try to do warp prism warp in of zealots, the zerg aleardy has a couple of roaches already. i like the idea of the warp prism so far, however, when is a good time to build a Core and a robo to make a warp prism? when should my warp prism zealot harass be happening at so that they wont all die quickly from roaches? thank you very much. | ||
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probeater
124 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:44 Bahajinbo wrote: Look at my posted video, for example. It's a 3 base push on Antiga. I mean, simply said, you can do every combination of Gateway units off 10 Gates (on 3 base), some heavy damage dealers (DTs, Colossi, HTs, Archons) and try to move out around 170 supply with a warp prism and/or proxy pylons. This is what I do on nearly every map but especially on Antiga. 3 base strategies are just amazingly strong on Antiga because you can hold your 3rd easily and there are some great choke-points to catch the Zerg army. @ HelpMeGetBetter: I will look at your replays soon, I'm at the university right now. Maybe I will find some concerns why you lost. would say consider your 3 base push all-in if it doesn't initially work? | ||
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probeater
124 Posts
On November 08 2012 21:53 probeater wrote: would you say your 3 base push is all-in if it doesn't initially work? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On November 08 2012 18:18 IMKR wrote: Im having trouble in PvZ game in that the zerg goes ahead of me way to far and by late game, if i dont have enough archons or MS im practically dead by infestors or BL. How can i harass the zerg around b4 the 10 min mark to keep his eco in check? i try to place forward pylons some places but they usually gets killed. and if i try to do warp prism warp in of zealots, the zerg aleardy has a couple of roaches already. i like the idea of the warp prism so far, however, when is a good time to build a Core and a robo to make a warp prism? when should my warp prism zealot harass be happening at so that they wont all die quickly from roaches? thank you very much. If you want to put pressure on before the 10 minute mark without all-inning, try 4gate +1 zealot pressure i guess. Here's a guide on it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970. The followup to it is slightly outdated, but the opening is solid and when executed correctly (first warp-in at 7:40) it should always do enough damage vs players up to mid/high master. Alternatively, you could opt for a passive fast third build like those described by monk here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 Hero's build and the fast robo build are the more popular and common options. The fast third allows you to both hold a roach max confortably and go into lategame with good tech, giving you the option to either hit before broodlords or play a macro game with mothership/templar. Also sick, 3k posts. I am my favourite unit now! | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
On November 08 2012 21:53 probeater wrote: would say consider your 3 base push all-in if it doesn't initially work? Actually it's difficult to say... If you know what unit composition the Zerg is going for and can counter it decently, you have a lot of potential of winning the game. But if not, you can still say: "Okay, I take a fourth, build a Templar Archives & a Fleet Beacon and try to win in the lategame". Builds like that just give you a decent position and you have to decide if you want to push or try to fight the Zerg in the lategame. I always do the first one, despite beating many Zergs with Archon Toilets. It's just a simple, clean victory in most cases. But you just have to know the army composition of the Zerg. One army composition I fear with this push is: Ling/Baneling/Infestor. The Dark Shrine doesn't do anything despite giving you a harassment potential. But with Archons, Colossi or High Templars with storm you still can try a big push at around 170 supply against Ling/Baneling/Infestor. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 08 2012 10:20 probeater wrote: when you say 2-3 base strategies do you mean all-ins? if so, what are they (other than partings) You could do an all-in or you could do an aggressive build that aims to prevent Zerg from controlling the middle of the map, thereby holding the game at 3 bases apiece. Zerg can't get a proper infestor broodlord ball off of just 3 bases (unless there's very little unit trading), so I think it would be fine to aim for a strategy that starves Zerg out. Antiga's a good map for the 2-base immortal sentry all-in, and that's the most common strategy you see on the map. The 3-base immortal/templar push I've been using is another option: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379300 | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On November 09 2012 00:34 Teoita wrote: Also sick, 3k posts. I am my favourite unit now! You mean slow, old and frail but able to call lightning down from the sky? :p Seriously though. Kudos. Quality posts too. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
For the glory of Aiur! | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
I just lost a game vs T were I was sure he was going gasless expand (which is like 90% of my vT on ladder) but the guy just threw down 2 more barracks and attacked with scv. Here's the replay : http://drop.sc/273416. I'm not sure exactly how I'm supposed to scout / defend that... Not that I encounter this strategy a lot but this game is bugging me... Any help appreciated! Thanks. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:44 Merany wrote: Hi guys, I just lost a game vs T were I was sure he was going gasless expand (which is like 90% of my vT on ladder) but the guy just threw down 2 more barracks and attacked with scv. Here's the replay : http://drop.sc/273416. I'm not sure exactly how I'm supposed to scout / defend that... Not that I encounter this strategy a lot but this game is bugging me... Any help appreciated! Thanks. You don't need to scout it terribly early. If you run your first zealot and/or stalker up to Terran's base, you'll see the SCV train heading your way. I like to respond by walling off the top of my ramp with gateways (I always put a pylon next to my ramp to allow both low-ground warp-ins and quick wall-offs) and chronoing out some stalkers. It winds up being a pretty easy defense. If they're hitting later, you can kite them across the map with stalkers or stop the push by cutting it apart with forcefields. | ||
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Merany
France890 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:49 kcdc wrote: You don't need to scout it terribly early. If you run your first zealot and/or stalker up to Terran's base, you'll see the SCV train heading your way. I like to respond by walling off the top of my ramp with gateways (I always put a pylon next to my ramp to allow both low-ground warp-ins and quick wall-offs) and chronoing out some stalkers. It winds up being a pretty easy defense. If they're hitting later, you can kite them across the map with stalkers or stop the push by cutting it apart with forcefields. Well, I sent my first stalker to his base on Ohana but I took one path and he took the other one so I missed him... Guess I should have checked the Xel Naga instead of right clicking near his base... Thanks for the advice though! | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
 Of course it always helps to have map vision with probes/pylons/observers too. | ||
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