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On November 03 2012 02:29 DarkblueRH wrote:
I've got a specific question about PvP if you guys have a moment to help me out. I'm a mid-high Master Protoss.
In short, my PvP sucks ass... I want a build in which I can get an expansion and play the macro game because that's where my strengths lie. Basically, my idea at the moment for this solid PvP strat is to 3 stalker rush, then build 2 sentries after the 2nd and 3rd stalker... With a pylon on my opponent's side of the map I'll scout up his ramp at 5:00. If he still has units at home, I cut probe production at 22 probes, expand, drop a robo and a 3rd gate then chrono probes. Then I scout again with an observer while having Xel'Naga control.
If he doesn't have units up his ramp at 5:00, I'll scout around. If it's 1gate pressure I do nothing. If it's 3/4gate pressure then I drop a 3rd gate and a robo, defend with sentries, and warp in zealots to my pylon on his side of the map to put into his mineral line while perma FF on my ramp.
My biggest fears are 1) gas steals, and 2) Stargate openers. How do you deal with gas steals if you're opening in this sort of manner? What is the proper manner to play vs Stargate openers with this sort of build? Both if they decide to all-in you off 1base or decide to expand as well. Everything else seems to be well accounted for with micro/scouting or occurs before I've commit to anything.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Your opener is good, although from the sound of it, it seems like you get double gas. If you go for 14 gas and saturate it when it finishes, you should have enough gas for 5 stalkers off 2 gates and an expo after your 2/3 (or 4/5) stalkers. There's also a window where you can drop pylon+gate+gas(2), but it could be just because of my less-that-perfect macro. Your stalkers pokes are good and you know what you're doing so I don't need to comment on that.
Opening 3 or 5 stalkers, you can leave 1 to kill to kill the gas steal (eventually), but this probably means your opponent wants to attack with tech. If they gas steal I would go for zealot+sentry instead of stalkers 4 and 5 just to be safe, and also a 3rd gate and robo a bit later.
Against stargate openers (typically phoenix), you'll want to do a few things: expand, get blink, and get a forge. Phoenix can't actually do anything about you expanding, and with his tech, he won't always have the army to kill you outright (assuming he isn't going for phoenix 4gate or something like that). Getting blink helps you kill the phoenix as they try to run away, and can also be later used to harass. Four stalkers 1shot a probe, so you can go for blinks into bases to kill a couple of probes and run away. Get a forge for both upgrades and cannon defense against the lingering phoenix that haven't died and try to harass.
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is the 270 minerals(mules) that it takes to use a scan worth sending in dark templar constantly in pvt? I'm thinking mid-late game by the way
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On November 03 2012 22:26 aldochillbro wrote:
is the 270 minerals(mules) that it takes to use a scan worth sending in dark templar constantly in pvt? I'm thinking mid-late game by the way
I think it's better to use your gas in colossi and high templar and archons, and just do zealots drops/warp-ins with a warp prism.
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I've been experimenting with double forge in pvt and can't figure if it's better to go forge first or colossus first. Any ideas?
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On November 04 2012 00:42 Kinon wrote:
I've been experimenting with double forge in pvt and can't figure if it's better to go forge first or colossus first. Any ideas?
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If you're not having trouble defending medivac pressure/drops go forge first, if you are, go colossus.
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On November 03 2012 22:26 aldochillbro wrote:
is the 270 minerals(mules) that it takes to use a scan worth sending in dark templar constantly in pvt? I'm thinking mid-late game by the way
Really depends on the situation. It's not usually a good deal for you (Protoss), but situations often come up where you have enough resources and you want to strain his multitasking with multipronged attacks. Here, DT's (with zealots) are really good because it forces him to actually move his screen to each spot to see what's going on and scan. Sometimes this will keep him distracted long enough for you to snipe a base or get a favorable engagement with your main army.
Other times, T has an orbital farm and infinity scans, so forcing a scan does nothing. It just depends on the situation and what you're trying to do.
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United States4883 Posts
On November 04 2012 00:42 Kinon wrote:
I've been experimenting with double forge in pvt and can't figure if it's better to go forge first or colossus first. Any ideas?
I use a variation that gets a single colossus without range out into double ups and templar, which works quite well. I think, in short, colossus means you'll have a strong midgame, forges mean you'll have a strong lategame, so play to however suits you.
Also, colossus first opens you to a near-maxed 2/2 timing around 15:00 while forge first opens you to a maxed out 3/3 timing around 16:00-17:00. Just some thoughts to keep in mind. Hope this helps!
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I wanna thank all the responders in this thread, in particular RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk, KCDC & ofc Mizuuu. I finally hit masters yesterday and referenced this thread infinity + 1 times on that grind :D
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On November 05 2012 11:46 Lemonayd wrote:
I wanna thank all the responders in this thread, in particular RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk, KCDC & ofc Mizuuu. I finally hit masters yesterday and referenced this thread infinity + 1 times on that grind :D
Congrats, a satisfying experience
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Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points  But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it?
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On November 05 2012 17:12 Davron wrote:Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it?
With the current meta-game, roach busts aren't too common, so a lot of players wall with their core. However, I really hate having my core exposed, so I opt for a wall against my nexus rather than a full ramp or natural choke wall.
I think it's completely preferential. (if you scout gas, obviously don't wall with your core.)
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On November 05 2012 17:12 Davron wrote:Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it?
That's a super minor detail that doesn't really matter ever. I always wall with my Cyber core. What really matters a whole lot more is the location and placement of the wall buildings, rather than specifically whether or not it's a gateway or core.
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On November 05 2012 17:12 Davron wrote:Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it?
On some maps you should do it (Antiga Shipyard, Entombed Valley), on some maps you doesn't have to (Ohana, Cloud Kingdom). I'm not scared of doing a walloff with my Cyber Core because you just have to scout a 1- or 2-base roach/baneling bust. With early cannons and sentrys you can defend it anway and nearly get a free win.
I mean: What alternative do you have on a map like Antiga Shipyard? Sure you can build 2 Gateways before Cyber Core to wall off, but this delays your tech quite a bit.
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Italy12248 Posts
On November 05 2012 11:46 Lemonayd wrote:
I wanna thank all the responders in this thread, in particular RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk, KCDC & ofc Mizuuu. I finally hit masters yesterday and referenced this thread infinity + 1 times on that grind :D
You just hurt my feelings
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On November 05 2012 19:42 Bahajinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 17:12 Davron wrote:Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it? On some maps you should do it (Antiga Shipyard, Entombed Valley), on some maps you doesn't have to (Ohana, Cloud Kingdom). I'm not scared of doing a walloff with my Cyber Core because you just have to scout a 1- or 2-base roach/baneling bust. With early cannons and sentrys you can defend it anway and nearly get a free win. I mean: What alternative do you have on a map like Antiga Shipyard? Sure you can build 2 Gateways before Cyber Core to wall off, but this delays your tech quite a bit.
I wall against my nexus on Antiga, because it's hard to get a good wall at the ramp ;;
This is after a gate expand though.
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On November 05 2012 22:57 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 19:42 Bahajinbo wrote:On November 05 2012 17:12 Davron wrote:Do top Protoss wall their FFE with their Cybernetics Core? It scares me to wall with it as I fear a roach push will take it out and send me to a loss of ladder points But I see a lot of FFE examples using the Core. Should I just do it? On some maps you should do it (Antiga Shipyard, Entombed Valley), on some maps you doesn't have to (Ohana, Cloud Kingdom). I'm not scared of doing a walloff with my Cyber Core because you just have to scout a 1- or 2-base roach/baneling bust. With early cannons and sentrys you can defend it anway and nearly get a free win. I mean: What alternative do you have on a map like Antiga Shipyard? Sure you can build 2 Gateways before Cyber Core to wall off, but this delays your tech quite a bit. I wall against my nexus on Antiga, because it's hard to get a good wall at the ramp ;; This is after a gate expand though.
i used to nexus wall but i prefer the natural choke wall now. sometimes you can lure them into doing a baneling bust which if scouted is a free win. since you have to use pylons in the wall i normally just reinforce it with the extra gates so there isn't a terrible weakpoint. it can get you in trouble against roach agression though i suppose
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Lately I've been opening fast colossus with a single forge in PvT. Generally I add a second forge and twilight after I queue up my second colossus if I'm safe. The most common response by terrans I've seen is to mass up a bunch of bio and vikings and try to hit a relatively fast timing when I'm getting up my third. This might be more of a question about stylistic preference than something that has a definitive answer, but what are some good ways to defend this attack? What I've been doing is getting up a few archons before storm and researching charge after I produce 3 colossi. Though I'm not sure if that's an optimal response, or if it would be better to go for more colossi/stalkers before a templar transition, or maybe a faster storm instead.
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On November 05 2012 21:55 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 11:46 Lemonayd wrote:
I wanna thank all the responders in this thread, in particular RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk, KCDC & ofc Mizuuu. I finally hit masters yesterday and referenced this thread infinity + 1 times on that grind :D You just hurt my feelings
I wanna thank Teoita for all of his quality responses in this thread, and in particular, screw RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk and Mizuuu for their crap comments as compared to those that Teoita provides. I finally hit #3 Masters yesterday, and Teoita is the reason why. If only players like RSVP Monk would stop posting, thereby increasing the Teoita density, I'd probably be GM.
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On November 06 2012 05:37 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 21:55 Teoita wrote:On November 05 2012 11:46 Lemonayd wrote:
I wanna thank all the responders in this thread, in particular RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk, KCDC & ofc Mizuuu. I finally hit masters yesterday and referenced this thread infinity + 1 times on that grind :D You just hurt my feelings I wanna thank Teoita for all of his quality responses in this thread, and in particular, screw RSVP, Alejandrisha, Monk and Mizuuu for their crap comments as compared to those that Teoita provides. I finally hit #3 Masters yesterday, and Teoita is the reason why. If only players like RSVP Monk would stop posting, thereby increasing the Teoita density, I'd probably be GM.
I heard Teoita actually plays terran and gives you bad advice so he can beat you all on his Terran smurf.
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Is there a hotkey I am missing for Warp Prism, when its moving, and I want to unload, but without pressing the unit on screen so the Prism keep moving along? or can this only be done "by hand"?
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EPT
