EPTWhich maps in the current ladder pool are good for Templar openings and which are good for Colossi openings (assuming standard play)? I thought Entombed would have been good for Colossi but I find it hard to defend them from vikings due to the narrow space before the ramps.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 364
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
Which maps in the current ladder pool are good for Templar openings and which are good for Colossi openings (assuming standard play)? I thought Entombed would have been good for Colossi but I find it hard to defend them from vikings due to the narrow space before the ramps. | ||
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Akamu
United States309 Posts
So i was wondering if anyone could give me like a benchmark of what supply i should have at X time of a 1gate expand? I'm not sure if i'm making to many probes or if i am just missing warpins. But having a solid supply number to shoot for at 10 min would help. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 02 2012 05:47 Akamu wrote: Hey i've recently been playing around with protoss and am trying to get a feel for the race but i'm having some trouble vs the 10 min medivac timing of a T. I have lot's of experience with Terran and know how to stop it in theory but it always seems like they just have so much more stuff than me. So i was wondering if anyone could give me like a benchmark of what supply i should have at X time of a 1gate expand? I'm not sure if i'm making to many probes or if i am just missing warpins. But having a solid supply number to shoot for at 10 min would help. Depends so much on the build you're using. If you're going double upgrades with charge and blink into colossi, your army will be small and you'll be hiding behind forcefields. I find it hard to defend the medivac timing with that style. If you tell us what build you're using and maybe post a replay, we'd be better able to help you improve your medivac timing defense. | ||
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Dominus143
United States12 Posts
In PvT I have started doing a 1 gate fast expand. The version I do is called the Kcdc version. I get double forge and sit back teching to storm and get a zealot archon army on 3-4 bases. I have found that if I get past 10 minutes or so and defend drops well that I will win late game. The matchup I am having problem with is pvp. What are your recommendations for a good standard opener that doesnt have any major weaknesses such as no robo against DT or a one base all-in.So far I cant find anything that seems standard in the matchup. Any help would be very much appreciated. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Every PvP build has a hard counter, so you're asking the impossible when you request a standard opener that doesnt' have any major weaknesses. That said, your best bet for stable builds are probably: (1) blink obs (fast twilight followed by robo)--often stays on 1-base until the game's over (2) phoenix into expand into colossi--expand behind your opponent to be safe (3) 2 gate expand (possibly with robo before nexus)--get 3 stalkers, then 2 sentries, then 2 more sentries after WG tech completes | ||
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Dominus143
United States12 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:36 kcdc wrote: Dominus, you might get warned for asking for a general PvP build which is one of the FAQ's that mods have tried to move to the OP. That said, I don't think the OP really covers the general PvP builds beyond the very first steps, so I'll help you out. Every PvP build has a hard counter, so you're asking the impossible when you request a standard opener that doesnt' have any major weaknesses. That said, your best bet for stable builds are probably: (1) blink obs (fast twilight followed by robo)--often stays on 1-base until the game's over (2) phoenix into expand into colossi--expand behind your opponent to be safe (3) 2 gate expand (possibly with robo before nexus)--get 3 stalkers, then 2 sentries, then 2 more sentries after WG tech completes Thanks I will look those up. In regards to possible mod action when I looked at the OP it was how to defend against build rather than more general beginner information as I am only in Silver. I did not realize that this as well would be looked down upon. I also figure that the information is somewhere in this thread already but Search did find anything that I wanted and I dont want to look though over 300 pages. Thanks for your recommendations. | ||
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wichenks
Canada153 Posts
Now i don't mind these openings, im not dying to them usually, but I feel like I have to do the same build and just have to same stuff in order to do survive. What's a build that counters this fairly well? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:16 wichenks wrote: Lately (At my level, mid plat) in pvp 9 out of 10 protosses that i've played open up with a gate robo gate into 3 gate robo expand, usually pushing off two base with 5-6 immortals, a couple sentries, and zealot/stalker around the 10 minute mark, while taking a third. Now i don't mind these openings, im not dying to them usually, but I feel like I have to do the same build and just have to same stuff in order to do survive. What's a build that counters this fairly well? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Forcefields and colossi. His push doesn't have anything that breaks forcefields, so you can defend it with good control while pumping out colossi with range. The counter push with ranged colossi will kill him. Pro tip: If you find yourself in a situation where you have colossus range and he doesn't, put your colossi in a separate control group and micro back and forth taking potshots at his army. If he chases after you, kite until he cathces up, and then engage in a favorable position, preferably with forcefields. If he doesn't have something to break forcefields, he loses 100%. If he has colossi without range, he takes damage and probably loses. | ||
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wichenks
Canada153 Posts
Thanks a lot  Who knew three words would solve my problem! Much appreciated! | ||
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lonecricket
24 Posts
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wichenks
Canada153 Posts
On November 02 2012 08:33 lonecricket wrote: I haven't played in awhile what are the standard openings Dude read five posts up! There's three good solid pvp openers there! | ||
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Bwaaaa
Australia969 Posts
Do I make more observers? But wouldn't that cripple my robo production? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27414 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:30 Bwaaaa wrote: Are there any tips you guys can give me to improve my map awareness. I am constantly unaware where my opponents army is. I am usually caught off guard when my opponent comes out of nowhere and snipes my third(usually vs T) and last game I was forced into a losing base-trade because when I moved out he had his army sitting near my third. Do I make more observers? But wouldn't that cripple my robo production? Play without sound, overmake observers, put zealots/blink stalkers on the watchtowers and spread pylons around the map into likely drop routes and well in front of expansion entrances in case they try to stim up and snipe. I also like to go double robo even when not going for a lot of collosi because I can replace observers without cutting into to collosus production. Also put up single cannons in potential spots where ghosts could nuke you, can make the difference between spotting and killing the thing, or losing 30 probes All of those tend to help, I'm terrible at map awareness as well but have noticed a bit of an improvement by pushing myself like that. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:30 Bwaaaa wrote: Are there any tips you guys can give me to improve my map awareness. I am constantly unaware where my opponents army is. I am usually caught off guard when my opponent comes out of nowhere and snipes my third(usually vs T) and last game I was forced into a losing base-trade because when I moved out he had his army sitting near my third. Do I make more observers? But wouldn't that cripple my robo production? Map awareness and map control/vision are two different concepts. Observers are the obvious solution: Place your army where he's most likely to attack, and observers in the second (and maybe third) most likely candidates. Religiously fight for and clear towers when able, and when all else fails, leave a zealot/probe on hold in place of an observer if theres a high risk you will be out of position and subsequently lose the game. Other then that, keep in mind that the nature of bio is that they will generally have map control throughout the early and mid-game, giving them the ability to sit outside your natural/third and wait for you to make a mistake (assuming you're playing standard turtle, and they're smart). And you should be making observers before you start your colossi production, and keeping them alive thereafter. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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pestilenz
Denmark379 Posts
The thing I was wondering about, is is anyone here has had any experience going mass blink stalker immortal, splitting you stalkers and blinking gradually on top of the tanks - it looked really viable when I saw it, and definitely a million times more challenging and fun than the "usual" style. How does is work for you? Sry, but I cannot provide a replay since I saw it on LiquidNonY's stream yesterday. http://da.twitch.tv/liquidnony/b/337733448 about 1 hour and 12 minutes in. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
In short, my PvP sucks ass... I want a build in which I can get an expansion and play the macro game because that's where my strengths lie. Basically, my idea at the moment for this solid PvP strat is to 3 stalker rush, then build 2 sentries after the 2nd and 3rd stalker... With a pylon on my opponent's side of the map I'll scout up his ramp at 5:00. If he still has units at home, I cut probe production at 22 probes, expand, drop a robo and a 3rd gate then chrono probes. Then I scout again with an observer while having Xel'Naga control. If he doesn't have units up his ramp at 5:00, I'll scout around. If it's 1gate pressure I do nothing. If it's 3/4gate pressure then I drop a 3rd gate and a robo, defend with sentries, and warp in zealots to my pylon on his side of the map to put into his mineral line while perma FF on my ramp. My biggest fears are 1) gas steals, and 2) Stargate openers. How do you deal with gas steals if you're opening in this sort of manner? What is the proper manner to play vs Stargate openers with this sort of build? Both if they decide to all-in you off 1base or decide to expand as well. Everything else seems to be well accounted for with micro/scouting or occurs before I've commit to anything. Thanks for the help in advance. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:30 Bwaaaa wrote: Are there any tips you guys can give me to improve my map awareness. I am constantly unaware where my opponents army is. I am usually caught off guard when my opponent comes out of nowhere and snipes my third(usually vs T) and last game I was forced into a losing base-trade because when I moved out he had his army sitting near my third. Do I make more observers? But wouldn't that cripple my robo production? Beyond the obvious (make observers, control watch towers), keeping your army moving helps. When you're moving your army, you'll naturally be thinking about where he is and without even realizing, you'll be making decisions about how to better keep tabs on his movements. If you watch pro games, you'll see their armies are constantly shuffling back and forth even when it seems like it's just wasted clicks. And if your problem is not map vision but rather actually noticing what's going on in your minimap, I'd suggest using windowed mode and making the game window small. My monitor is simply too big and too close to my chair (shallow desk) for me to see my minimap well with my peripheral vision. The smaller window keeps the minimap close to the center of my focus all the time. It wound up making a huge difference in my minimap awareness, and it game me a small APM and click accuracy boost too (didn't have to move the mouse pointer as far on the screen). | ||
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pestilenz
Denmark379 Posts
On November 03 2012 00:17 Sated wrote: I saw that as well and I think it's a really effective response if you're capable of controlling properly. Blinking the Stalkers in like that gives cover for your Immortals to get up into the Tank line, and once the Immortals are in the Tank line it is game over. Tanks also can't shoot at units that are right next to them, so Blink Stalkers right on top of Tanks can actually be really good if the Terran doesn't have any supporting units capable of dealing with Stalkers. However, I feel I should also point out that NonY could've simply being reacting to the Terran's composition. In that game the Terran went mostly Hellion/Tank, neither of which are good at dealing with Immortals. Since I don't get to see Mech vs. Protoss much, and I certainly don't get to see Mech vs. NonY much, I don't know if that is his common response to Mech or if it is just something he did based on the Terran player's composition. As a side note, I've had quite a few Terran players attempting to play a similar style against me recently (sometimes with Banshee harassment thrown in). Are other Protoss players noticing more Mech-based styles recently or am I just having a strange streak of chance..? I figure it's people who have been playing HotS attempting to play Mech in WoL, but the last two Terran players I have asked about their Mech-play have BM'd me for daring to message them outside of a game D: I would like to know as well. And maybe start doing it myself haha - seriously seemed a lot more fun ^^ But still, wondering how many out there that have experimented with this "style" and how they felt about it. | ||
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