On October 29 2012 05:25 Havik_ wrote: Best PvT opener to make to to the lategame and defend drops? There are so many openers floating around I'm not sure which to focus on. I like the Creator double forge opener, but it seems vulnerable to midgame pushes.
You can go into either Templar or Colossus off of it; for Templar copy what PartinG does exactly, for Colossus here's a replay of mine: http://drop.sc/268703. There's also a game on Cloud Kingdom in the last of HerO's replay packs that you could look at.
The 2base templar build i wrote about is also ok but if your goal is 100% to shut down drops, fast blink is the best way to go about it.
Hello guys, I was wondering if anyone has a build or at least an idea how to transition to carrier in PvP of a phoenix opening. I am getting bored by standard colos/archon lategame, and would like to try something different and more fun I heard whitera did something like that after expandind with 2g robo, but i was never lucky enough to see. thanks for all the possible help
I've recently been using a defensive 2 gate expand in PvP which goes three stalker into expand with four sentries followed by a robo (the one used by Oz, Huk, etc). I've been really liking it, and can usually hold most later-hitting all-ins pretty nicely. However I've had a bit of trouble reacting to early pressure, like 3 gate pressure into expand, or most anything that looks like a 4 gate but doesn't commit heavily to an attack. If I scout that my opponent doesn't take a 2nd gas and/or has a lot of chrono boost saved should I be getting my robo before nexus and getting some units before expanding, getting the nexus regardless, or something else? What would be the optimal reaction?
What is the generally agreed "BEST way" to shut down Proxy 2 Gate Zealot rush and Cannon Rush, respectively? Assume you know they are coming 100% from the beginning; basically if I say "I am going to cannon rush you, I bet you can't beat it" (and the same with proxy 2gate zealot) what build do you use to crush it knowing it's coming? I have no trouble scouting PvP cheese but I struggle with countering it even after spotting it every time.
On October 29 2012 14:51 JackReacher wrote: What is the generally agreed "BEST way" to shut down Proxy 2 Gate Zealot rush and Cannon Rush, respectively? Assume you know they are coming 100% from the beginning; basically if I say "I am going to cannon rush you, I bet you can't beat it" (and the same with proxy 2gate zealot) what build do you use to crush it knowing it's coming? I have no trouble scouting PvP cheese but I struggle with countering it even after spotting it every time.
My personal suggestion is following the "Winning with Ease" method of stopping both those types of early pressure.
Here's the link to both videos respectively:
2 Gate Proxy:
Cannon Rush:
If you're too lazy to watch it, here's a tl;dr version:
2 Gate Proxy: Cancel your gas and build up to 3 Gateways (no CC). Since they're committing to the push, you have the extra money to build off 3 gateways and just out-produce zealots. Just focus on not getting supply blocked.
Cannon Rush: Build a forge and cancel the gas if you see it in time. Don't bother rushing out the zealot if you know you can't kill the cannon or if there's already a cannon up before you spot it. The main thing you is you want to produce 2 cannons out of range of where he's building cannons, which prevents him from building cannons closer to your Nexus. Once you prevent his progression of cannons, tech up to Cybernetics Core. You should be able to get your Warp Gate much sooner than him if you didn't lose too much from the rush.
what's the best way stop a warp prism 4gate in PvP? i'm also not sure how you would scout the difference between this and a normal 4gate. i build sentries to defend my ramp for a normal 4gate, but then i see the warp prism and i don't have enough units to defend it.
On October 29 2012 15:58 garsh0p wrote: what's the best way stop a warp prism 4gate in PvP? i'm also not sure how you would scout the difference between this and a normal 4gate. i build sentries to defend my ramp for a normal 4gate, but then i see the warp prism and i don't have enough units to defend it.
Don't build more sentries than necessary, and otherwise capitalise on your 1 gate tech.
On October 29 2012 15:58 garsh0p wrote: what's the best way stop a warp prism 4gate in PvP? i'm also not sure how you would scout the difference between this and a normal 4gate. i build sentries to defend my ramp for a normal 4gate, but then i see the warp prism and i don't have enough units to defend it.
I don't really face this often, so I can't really vouch for my advice (it's very limited based on my experience, but here goes).
Depending on how you open and what your tech route depends on how easy/hard it is, plus some maps have native advantages to make this push stronger (large main bases such as Condemed Ridge or mains with lots of high ground exposure like Cloud Kingdom). I'll just list all three, but in general if he's pushing your front, then you want to make up to 4 sentries to hold that part off. Also note that if you know for a fact that it's a Warp Prism 4-gate, don't hesitate to pull probes in order to kill the push.
Robo: Depending on what he's warping in, you're either getting Zealots or spending the money for the Immortals. You'd want a few Stalkers to chase away the Prism at the start but don't warp anymore than that. You want your Immortals to counter his Stalkers and Zealots to match his. Sentries/Stalkers/Immortals won't be that helpful in small numbers if he has a loaded WP along with another 4 Zealots warping in.
Stargate: This is probably easiest way to hold it off, since the Phoenix can shut down the WP permanently. As always, match his warp cycle, so Zealots if he's warping in Zealots and Stalkers to match his count.
Twilight: This is kind of a tough one since I haven't really encountered 4 Gate Warp Prism while going Twilight. You don't have the luxury of Immortals or Phoenixes, and you have 1 less Gateway than he does producing units. My guess is initial Stalkers to push away the WP and then just Zealots for the unload and warp in your main.
Can anybody give general, overarching tips vs cannon rushing in pvp? I find that in some situations I simply cannot win due to the timing I scout it etc. I open double chrono (greediest) 13 gate, and I assim scout. I scout around my base on 2 base maps, then I scout my opponent.
What should be my priorities when I scout a cannon rush? In some situations I'm good (like vs the one on Antiga); I have a good sim city to counter it and my probe micro is good, but i find on other maps, where my opponent is good at abusing the map, I struggle. Especially when the cannon rushing is rare enough that I don't see the various abuses of terrain regularly enough.
On October 29 2012 17:45 Teoita wrote: In terms of strategy, his specific variation hits faster as he delays +1 for faster immortals, and completely skips +1 armor.
Other than that, he just doesn't make mistakes when doing that build. Ever.
It must also be mentioned that it is a build that scales in effectiveness with it's execution, and has an extremely high skill cap. Forcefielding and positioning makes or breaks it.
On October 29 2012 17:45 Teoita wrote: In terms of strategy, his specific variation hits faster as he delays +1 for faster immortals, and completely skips +1 armor.
Other than that, he just doesn't make mistakes when doing that build. Ever.
As far as build order goes he does a nexus first when doing the build. He does a nexus first pretty often though so I think its just his style to do so.
And you are right, he never ever makes a single mistake when he does the build its beautiful to watch.
On October 29 2012 23:38 Gumbi wrote: Can anybody give general, overarching tips vs cannon rushing in pvp? I find that in some situations I simply cannot win due to the timing I scout it etc. I open double chrono (greediest) 13 gate, and I assim scout. I scout around my base on 2 base maps, then I scout my opponent.
What should be my priorities when I scout a cannon rush? In some situations I'm good (like vs the one on Antiga); I have a good sim city to counter it and my probe micro is good, but i find on other maps, where my opponent is good at abusing the map, I struggle. Especially when the cannon rushing is rare enough that I don't see the various abuses of terrain regularly enough.
Thanks!
Which maps? If you scout it soon enough, generally, a quick forge of your own should be sufficient to stop it if you aren't able to get enough probes onto it. If you're scouting too late to react in time, maybe you should acknowledge the inherent risk in such a late scout?
There are some map-specific cannon rushes that these don't apply to, but in general when scouted on time you should try, in the following order:
1) Kill the cannons with probes until you get a zealot out. 2) The initial cannon/pylon is on the low ground: Pylon/probe block ramp and prevent sight as you get a stalker out. 3) Initial cannon is walled in with sight: Get your own forge.
Another good habit to get into in PvP is building your second pylon in such a way that prevents mineral-line wall-offs from being completed on maps where it's a threat. Never have so many free wins been delivered on xel'naga. @_@
On October 29 2012 05:25 Havik_ wrote: Best PvT opener to make to to the lategame and defend drops? There are so many openers floating around I'm not sure which to focus on. I like the Creator double forge opener, but it seems vulnerable to midgame pushes.
You can go into either Templar or Colossus off of it; for Templar copy what PartinG does exactly, for Colossus here's a replay of mine: http://drop.sc/268703. There's also a game on Cloud Kingdom in the last of HerO's replay packs that you could look at.
The 2base templar build i wrote about is also ok but if your goal is 100% to shut down drops, fast blink is the best way to go about it.
can someone tell me what i should do against a random on a 4 player map (problem is if there zerg or not)? as in first pylon placement, should i scout with 2 probes and what building to put down if you still haven't found them
if it helps my standard builds are: pvp 2 gate robo then expand if no 4gate pvt 1 gate FE pvz FFE
On October 30 2012 07:02 probeater wrote: can someone tell me what i should do against a random on a 4 player map (problem is if there zerg or not)? as in first pylon placement, should i scout with 2 probes and what building to put down if you still haven't found them
if it helps my standard builds are: pvp 2 gate robo then expand if no 4gate pvt 1 gate FE pvz FFE
On October 30 2012 07:02 probeater wrote: can someone tell me what i should do against a random on a 4 player map (problem is if there zerg or not)? as in first pylon placement, should i scout with 2 probes and what building to put down if you still haven't found them
if it helps my standard builds are: pvp 2 gate robo then expand if no 4gate pvt 1 gate FE pvz FFE
EPT
