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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 244

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
May 27 2012 15:04 GMT
#4861
I got cheesed twice today by a double gateway constant zealot into cannon rush play - I walled off both times, once with a pylon/cyber/pylon and once with pylon/pylon/pylon, and rushed for a Stalker. I failed miserably both times, though with better micro and desicion making I would've held it the 2nd time.

How should I react to pure zealot/cannon? just micro better? rush for a sentry instead?
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
May 27 2012 16:41 GMT
#4862
On May 28 2012 00:04 hooahah wrote:
I got cheesed twice today by a double gateway constant zealot into cannon rush play - I walled off both times, once with a pylon/cyber/pylon and once with pylon/pylon/pylon, and rushed for a Stalker. I failed miserably both times, though with better micro and desicion making I would've held it the 2nd time.

How should I react to pure zealot/cannon? just micro better? rush for a sentry instead?

post replays, that will make it much easier to help you.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
LeeDawg
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1306 Posts
May 27 2012 16:47 GMT
#4863
On May 27 2012 22:37 hooahah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 20:27 grapedog wrote:
when vortex goes away during HOTS, whats a legitimate counter to the late game zerg bl/corruptor/infestor composition army?


what Ace did in the GSL U/D vs BboongBboong - abuse the Broodlords immobility and harass/take out bases, then recall back to safety to save your forces



recall is an ability on the mothership.

he's asking what to do when there IS no mommaship
:-)
OskO
Profile Joined February 2011
Argentina369 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-27 17:10:51
May 27 2012 17:07 GMT
#4864
On May 28 2012 01:47 LeeDawg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 22:37 hooahah wrote:
On May 27 2012 20:27 grapedog wrote:
when vortex goes away during HOTS, whats a legitimate counter to the late game zerg bl/corruptor/infestor composition army?


what Ace did in the GSL U/D vs BboongBboong - abuse the Broodlords immobility and harass/take out bases, then recall back to safety to save your forces



recall is an ability on the mothership.

he's asking what to do when there IS no mommaship


It's planned to become a Nexus spell once the Mothership gets removed from the game, as far as we know.

EDIT: Source, just in case.-
Though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
May 27 2012 21:10 GMT
#4865
On May 28 2012 01:41 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2012 00:04 hooahah wrote:
I got cheesed twice today by a double gateway constant zealot into cannon rush play - I walled off both times, once with a pylon/cyber/pylon and once with pylon/pylon/pylon, and rushed for a Stalker. I failed miserably both times, though with better micro and desicion making I would've held it the 2nd time.

How should I react to pure zealot/cannon? just micro better? rush for a sentry instead?

post replays, that will make it much easier to help you.


watched the replays now...first game I saw the early probe, should have just searched for the proxy gateways instead of rushing for a stalker&walling off
second game I should have had better micro (focus fire & kiting), and taken out that probe ASAP.

http://drop.sc/187266 - 2nd game if you still want to see, have any tips as to how I should approach this double gateway no gas opening

oh well, more GG more skill

CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
May 27 2012 22:29 GMT
#4866
Anyone know a few good 2 base timings in PvT?
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
saer
Profile Joined March 2011
40 Posts
May 27 2012 23:29 GMT
#4867
Squirtle has some great 2base allin plays. Both involve a 3colossus range push with or without blink. Another interesting PvT build is good on maps where you can blink directly into the main like Ohana. HerO showed it on Ohana in a recent GSL game: you 1gate fe and follow up with both a robo and blink, your units will be mostly stalkers, a warp prism, 2-3 sentries and a zealot. The goal is to blink into the main and then drop sentries to forcefield the ramp, then warp in units off of 7~ gates.
Ksquared
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1748 Posts
May 28 2012 00:26 GMT
#4868
What is the best way to follow up a FFE in PvZ? I know what to do up until than, but afterwards I'm just lost.
eSports for life.
saer
Profile Joined March 2011
40 Posts
May 28 2012 00:52 GMT
#4869
This thread can help you with some powerful two base timings to follow up, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477

There are many fast 3rd builds currently being created by pro players, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905 this thread gives lots of information and if you check out some of the series with MC or Squirtle vs Stephano from the Red Bull Lan they showcase some great followups.

In general you want to get both gases in your main as soon as you get your wall up with the cannon and gateway, then you want to go up to around 4 gates and some sort of tech, then take a third or add more production if you're planning to be aggressive.
Ksquared
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1748 Posts
May 28 2012 01:22 GMT
#4870
Another dumb question but when forcefielding roaches do you want to push them back?
eSports for life.
saer
Profile Joined March 2011
40 Posts
May 28 2012 02:03 GMT
#4871
It depends how big your force is, the ideal is to section off enough to kill without losing too much. Sectioning off 1/4 - 1/3 is usually good, if your force is much smaller or if they're engaging on multiple fronts you might have to simply forcefield them all out. It takes a lot of experience to know how much you can kill with each army.
Another good tactic is to forcefield in a circle shape which will crush many roaches into a small space and AoE becomes incredibly effective.
A good way to think of it is that there are three types of good forcefields: blocking all roaches out, sectioning some off, blocking all of them in. You want to block them all out when you have a much smaller force, you are only buying time for your production because you're not killing any of their units. If you have an even or slightly smaller force you want to cut off a section and you are trading sentry energy for a bigger army advantage. Cutting off their retreat is for when you have a much larger army and aren't concerned about losing anything, you just want to make sure they do not escape.
elctrc_wzrd
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada61 Posts
May 28 2012 04:31 GMT
#4872
Ok so as per usual I've been getting absolutely stomped by the Stephano roach/ling push. I'm going for the robo and fast third opener around 9:30 (for the third). Here are 3 replays of my recent games. I really need help its pretty painful requesting my zerg buddies to do it over and over and it works every time. Was it my rampant use of forcefields at the engagement? I thought I did well keeping up my macro till the point of the attack. If it matters I am a masters toss just recently.

http://drop.sc/187376
BM
LGcube
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-28 16:10:17
May 28 2012 04:40 GMT
#4873


User was warned for editing out his warning.
"gg your 4 gate is besty" - White-Ra
Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 28 2012 05:25 GMT
#4874
On May 28 2012 13:31 elctrc_wzrd wrote:
Ok so as per usual I've been getting absolutely stomped by the Stephano roach/ling push. I'm going for the robo and fast third opener around 9:30 (for the third). Here are 3 replays of my recent games. I really need help its pretty painful requesting my zerg buddies to do it over and over and it works every time. Was it my rampant use of forcefields at the engagement? I thought I did well keeping up my macro till the point of the attack. If it matters I am a masters toss just recently.

http://drop.sc/187376


On the simplest of levels, you walled in at your natural, put a bunch of cannons at your third, then picked the fight right out in the open, and used all your FF's immediately. You were still sitting on 4 gates (with only 2 more coming) and one robo. You can't expect to take that fight vs. the roach push out in the open. On that map, I like to completely wall the third (full gateway wall, 3-4 cannons behind, and 2-3 pylons behind that. Maybe that's too much, but hell it's worked so far.

I think you can fight at your natural ramp if you focus on conservative FF placement. So the zerg can't run into your natural, obviously, he won't be able to come through the rocks at the third (since the gateways are like super effective force fields), and if he tries to run up your third ramp you can just cut him up with FF's.

Here's a replay that I'm giving you just to illustrate what I'm talking about. This wasn't perfect by any means, and I probably made too many cannons, and the zerg wasn't the best at the max, excuses, blah blah blah, but it worked. I'm diamond, but this zerg player was masters (I was having a good ladder day ^^).

http://drop.sc/187385

Please someone tell me if I'm wrong, I'd love advice as well.
LGcube
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-28 16:10:41
May 28 2012 05:30 GMT
#4875
"gg your 4 gate is besty" - White-Ra
-MoOsE-
Profile Joined March 2011
United States236 Posts
May 28 2012 20:47 GMT
#4876
ok so I scouted this terran going for a gas opening with my probe. I then proceed to scout his unit comp to determine what he is going for 1/1/1, 2 rax etc, and as soon as I move out a reaper comes into my main. I cant do anything in this position as my units are half way across the map and I have only probe right now and a sentry on the way.

Is there anything I can do in this position? or do I just have to take the losses.
The King in the North Fighting
GrassEater
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden417 Posts
May 28 2012 21:04 GMT
#4877
On May 29 2012 05:47 -MoOsE- wrote:
ok so I scouted this terran going for a gas opening with my probe. I then proceed to scout his unit comp to determine what he is going for 1/1/1, 2 rax etc, and as soon as I move out a reaper comes into my main. I cant do anything in this position as my units are half way across the map and I have only probe right now and a sentry on the way.

Is there anything I can do in this position? or do I just have to take the losses.


You can see if he do an effective 2 rax since it needs to build 2:nd rax b4 2:nd depo. If he builds depo to trap probe then you know 2 rax is delayed by maybe 10 s so you can be safe going 1 gate exp into 3gate robo.
-MoOsE-
Profile Joined March 2011
United States236 Posts
May 28 2012 21:06 GMT
#4878
still that only rules out one build and not even that (it could be delayed) I feel like I still need to do the zealot stalker poke
The King in the North Fighting
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-28 22:12:57
May 28 2012 21:29 GMT
#4879
--- Nuked ---
GrassEater
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden417 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-28 21:58:39
May 28 2012 21:54 GMT
#4880
On May 29 2012 06:06 -MoOsE- wrote:
still that only rules out one build and not even that (it could be delayed) I feel like I still need to do the zealot stalker poke


I dont like poking vs gasopenings and i dont really se the point, but i dont feel that i am good enough to say do this or do that.

Sacking the scouting probe and count marines can give intel to.
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