EPT[G] QTIP’s guide to defending the 1-1-1 (PvT) - Page 22
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Geiko
France1943 Posts
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 17 2011 00:07 ProxyKnoxy wrote: I just went against some deformed grotesque version of the 1/1/1. A blue flame hellion drop that wiped out half my probes into a 1/1/1. How do I defend that? If you defend well vs the drop, his push is pretty delayed, which means you will have more stuff when he eventually attacks. To defend the hellions, a (really) good simcity, making sure you have 2-3 stalkers per mineral line until you know what he's doing (ie the first obs arrives at his base) and getting gates 2 and 3 before the robo are the way to go imo. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On October 16 2011 23:58 Geiko wrote: Awesome thread QTIP ! Been owning 1-1-1 ever since reading your thread. TY man, your defensive 3 Gate Guide is something that I use all the time with great success! ^_^ | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
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Geiko
France1943 Posts
On October 17 2011 05:35 NrGmonk wrote: I kinda reread your guide recently and I'd like to make a suggestion. You suggest 1 gate fe into robo as a viable counter, but I think it's a very risky unsafe counter. If your opponent goes for a hellion/marine/medivac opening, you will die with just a 1 gate fe into robo strategy. Similarly, if your opponent tricks you and goes 3 rax with a bunker, you can lose as well. Instead, the safe option would be 1 gate fe into 3 gates into robo. I don't know if you mean to do that, but I found it unclear in your guide. I've been doing a mix of both : gate FE gate robo gate gate. I can't manage to find the timings for gate FE gate gate robo, I always seem to have gateways inactive for some time and don't like that ^^ whereas with 2 gates you can make constant units and afford the robo and the probes. Any thoughts on this Monk ? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 17 2011 05:57 Geiko wrote: I've been doing a mix of both : gate FE gate robo gate gate. I can't manage to find the timings for gate FE gate gate robo, I always seem to have gateways inactive for some time and don't like that ^^ whereas with 2 gates you can make constant units and afford the robo and the probes. Any thoughts on this Monk ? I'm a waaaay worse player than you guys, but if you are up vs a tech all-in i think it's ok to have idle gates; at that stage in the game (7 ish) im more concerned about getting a good number of probes up, observers out on the map, a few immortals and my extra gates ready. Viceversa if i'm up against bio play i might cut the immortals to get a few more units. Overall, i find 3gate and then robo to be more flexible than trying to tech super fast. | ||
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monk
United States8476 Posts
On October 17 2011 05:57 Geiko wrote: I've been doing a mix of both : gate FE gate robo gate gate. I can't manage to find the timings for gate FE gate gate robo, I always seem to have gateways inactive for some time and don't like that ^^ whereas with 2 gates you can make constant units and afford the robo and the probes. Any thoughts on this Monk ? If no early push comes, then your gateways should be idle. The purpose of the early 2 gates is so you can defend early pushes if they do indeed come. If you cut probes, i'm sure you can fully support production off of all 3 gates when you need to. The one specific push that you absolutely need the early 3 gates for is the 3 hellion 8 marine 1 medivac push, which you won't have enough units to kill without early 3 gates. PS. I'm writing an updated guide on 1 gate fe soon. | ||
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hox
United States59 Posts
PS. I'm writing an updated guide on 1 gate fe soon. Awesome! Looking forward to it. | ||
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SRopion
United States50 Posts
BLAM banshees have to fly back to base. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
On October 17 2011 05:57 Geiko wrote: I've been doing a mix of both : gate FE gate robo gate gate. I can't manage to find the timings for gate FE gate gate robo, I always seem to have gateways inactive for some time and don't like that ^^ whereas with 2 gates you can make constant units and afford the robo and the probes. Any thoughts on this Monk ? I can (empirically) confirm that. From about half a dozen trial runs I've come to the conclusion that the robo (which you are already ideally chronoing 100% of the time) makes 2obs and 2 immortals with priority over gateways. About 2-3 rax, I feel 2 gate robo isn't any better than 1 gate robo (i.e. it just dies more or less to a commited 2/3 rax). One thing I'm wondering about: what is the optimal probe count to do an FE on? I've been 30 nexusing, but that's kinda been a bit arbitrary. | ||
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TeCH_TT
Germany63 Posts
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rycho
United States360 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:33 rycho wrote: anyone have any tips for differentiating between 2 rax expand builds and 1/1/1 as early as possible? i have trouble deciding whether to go gate/nexus/gate/gate/robo (ideal vs 2 rax) or getting an earlier robo (ideal vs 1/1/1). what do you guys look for with you first stalker? do you assume any build that gets gas and then bunkers the ramp is a 1/1/1 build, or can do 2 rax expand builds still do that? Well, if they put up a bunker with a 2 rax that's odd because a 2 rax is a pressure build and most terrans will move out with units after the first marauder comes out so there's no need to build a bunker at that timing. Also, this might not be true at all levels, but for a 2 rax they'll generally add a reactor immediately after the first marine, so the next 2 marines will be delayed while in a 1/1/1 they'll constantly pump marines at a steady rate. However, if you come back to check in later and they have like 5 marines that tells you nothing basically. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On October 24 2011 15:57 Itsmedudeman wrote: Well, if they put up a bunker with a 2 rax that's odd because a 2 rax is a pressure build and most terrans will move out with units after the first marauder comes out so there's no need to build a bunker at that timing. Also, this might not be true at all levels, but for a 2 rax they'll generally add a reactor immediately after the first marine, so the next 2 marines will be delayed while in a 1/1/1 they'll constantly pump marines at a steady rate. However, if you come back to check in later and they have like 5 marines that tells you nothing basically. This is an unfortunate situation that we have to deal with. Sometimes very tricky players (Taeja vs MC) will 2-rax while erecting a bunker to give the illusion of a possible 1/1/1 build. You get a little greedy, too early of a Robo and end up dying. The best you can do for yourself is continuous poking at the ramp of the Terran in an effort to get as much information as possible. Then make an educated guess. In my experience, Terrans in Bronze -> Low Masters on NA are all pretty easy to read in regards to 2-rax or 1/1/1. A trick I use frequently is to time the re-entry of my probe. The first marine comes out at roughly 3:09 (in game time) so I will have my probe out of his base after the first initial scout, then slip it back in sometime between the building of the first and second marine. Though you will not always get a scout (wall-off) you can easily sneak past a marine that is not being micro'd. If you enter around this time, the 2nd barracks should have already begun constructing. Hopefully that helps a little. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On October 23 2011 18:53 TeCH_TT wrote: thanks for the guide helped me allot. My pleasure ^^ | ||
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blinksc2
Germany14 Posts
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Nujok
31 Posts
Thanks for this great guide! I really like [G] Posts if they are as detailed as yours. Really nice job sir! I have a master Protoss friend that is struggling with the 1-1-1 build a lot..i already sent him the link to your post! thank you sir | ||
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StarMega
United States34 Posts
I've tried this only once and it sort of worked except the tanks were still there. | ||
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