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On December 29 2011 17:59 StarMega wrote:
I've seen colossus be a viable counter to 1/1/1 can someone explain how exactly this works?
I've tried this only once and it sort of worked except the tanks were still there.
1 base Colossus doesn't work because the Terran can simply setup a contain on your natural and expand behind it. You have to expand against any half-decent 1-1-1.
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On December 29 2011 17:59 StarMega wrote:
I've seen colossus be a viable counter to 1/1/1 can someone explain how exactly this works?
I've tried this only once and it sort of worked except the tanks were still there.
As has also been stated, the Terran is forcing a loss onto himself if he continues the 1/1/1 into the main. He wins with an expansion of his own and careful play containing on the ramp or with bunkers at his natural. Now, I'm not gonna say every Terran will make this decision, because he can make his own judgement on whether you have the micro necessary to defend his attack. So he can throw the game away, but you can't force the win with 1base colossus.
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Italy12248 Posts
On December 29 2011 17:59 StarMega wrote:
I've seen colossus be a viable counter to 1/1/1 can someone explain how exactly this works?
I've tried this only once and it sort of worked except the tanks were still there.
As mentioned, 1base colossus is terrible vs 111, don't listen to Artosis :D
Really fast (as in, robo bay down the instant your robo is done) colossus off 1gate fe on the other hand is something that might potentially work (Cecil has a video with it on his youtube channel), IF the rush distances are REALLY long. As in, Tal'darim Altar long.
The problem with teching to anything at all against a 1base terran is that protoss tech is expensive as hell, so for a long while you leave a huge timing where you don't have many units that terran might hit, and you need every unit you can possibly spare to defend terran allins. If you get your tech up you are in amazing shape, if he scouts it (or just to attack sooner than you expect) you are kind of dead.
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FWIW, White Ra also does 1 base colossus vs 111. I just saw him do it on his stream today. I noticed a couple of things about his play:
- He was very aggressive with his first 4 stalkers and an observer (for vision) and killed several marines before the terran got tanks.
- He did expand as his first colossus was making.
- He had 2 ranged colossi as the terran moved out. He met him in the middle of the map before the terran could seige up. GG.
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Thanks for the great guide QTIP. I've started playing 1v1 again and I just beat 1-1-1 for the first time using this build 
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So what about players that open banshee expand and you cut workers in the low 30s? I lost my CSL ace match because of this, by the time he moved down his ramp he was ahead like 6 or 7 workers with a second cc up, and I was behind the rest of the game.
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On January 27 2012 11:11 SkaPunk wrote:
So what about players that open banshee expand and you cut workers in the low 30s? I lost my CSL ace match because of this, by the time he moved down his ramp he was ahead like 6 or 7 workers with a second cc up, and I was behind the rest of the game.
Yeah this has actually been happening to me a few times on ladder too. I usually just kind of go allin as they rarely have as high a marine count as they normally would at this time of they were allining and with 3 or 4 immortals and lots of zealots/sentries you can usually break it. I do this when I take more damage from his banshee harass than I'd like.
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United States8477 Posts
On January 30 2012 08:23 Alejandrisha wrote:here are some replays of me trying out the colossus route, which i've found quite good. opening 1g expand http://drop.sc/98780opening nexus 1st http://drop.sc/100367
Imo FE into colossi is a hard counter to the standard marine-tank-banshee allin, but it's close to autoloss versus marine/hellion drop into marine-tank-banshee allin. You kinda have to go fast robo to get colossi in time to deal with the push, but if you do that you leave yourself open in a timing where you only have 1 gateway trying to defend 3 hellions, 7 marines, and a medivac. In that sense, it's a bit coin-flippy.
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in the nexus first one he does that push you're talking about, but i'm able to see it coming with the probe scout. forces more stalkers than i would like, prompting me to get the 3rd gas
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United States8477 Posts
On January 30 2012 08:35 Alejandrisha wrote:
in the nexus first one he does that push you're talking about, but i'm able to see it coming with the probe scout. forces more stalkers than i would like, prompting me to get the 3rd gas
That was a weird game. Partly because of the map, but mostly because of his execution, he hit you about 40 seconds later than he could have. You also scout his push coming very early. In that particular game, I think colossi after his push was a very good choice to hold off the 1-1-1 allin, but I'm still far from convinced that you can systematically hold off that push on a normal map with a generic expansion opening while still getting relatively fast colossi.
Also, you got a 3 gas before seeing his push.
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On January 30 2012 09:11 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 08:35 Alejandrisha wrote:
in the nexus first one he does that push you're talking about, but i'm able to see it coming with the probe scout. forces more stalkers than i would like, prompting me to get the 3rd gas That was a weird game. Partly because of the map, but mostly because of his execution, he hit you about 40 seconds later than he could have. You also scout his push coming very early. In that particular game, I think colossi after his push was a very good choice to hold off the 1-1-1 allin, but I'm still far from convinced that you can systematically hold off that push on a normal map with a generic expansion opening while still getting relatively fast colossi. Also, you got a 3 gas before seeing his push.
i like getting that 3rd gas regardless of whether or not i use it. i like to keep probes as low as possible, but if i'm going to opt for the colo way it's already there to use. if i want to do the gw immortal style, i'll just not use it. also if it's double port having that 3rd or 4th gas up already is nice in case i want to get phoenix as well. you're right in that it's not quite systematic. still a lot of testing to be done
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Thank god for you QTIP! Thank God! I was hoping to find something to deal with the 111 as it is ALL that I have seen from terran lately, in fact it beat me so many times i was forced back into diamond  but now I feel much more confident against it, awesome post, keep it up!
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On January 27 2012 11:11 SkaPunk wrote:
So what about players that open banshee expand and you cut workers in the low 30s? I lost my CSL ace match because of this, by the time he moved down his ramp he was ahead like 6 or 7 workers with a second cc up, and I was behind the rest of the game.
You don't get an obs in his base to scout the CC before you start cutting too many probes?
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Diamond Protoss here. I am having trouble dealing with a newer version of this build, started with cloaked banshees and adding 2 extra naked rax. So it's more like a 3/1/1, but usually ends with more of the same composition at a later time, plus cloak.
I absolutely cannot beat it with just immortals as there seem to be simply too many marines.
Here is a replay:
http://drop.sc/131029
I think I held off the banshee harass taking minimal damage, but then the push just killed me.
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Hi im having issues with a variety of variations of this, for reference im an over 900 point master.
So im curious on what people suggest here.
The 1/1/1 look alike timing except they go entirely pure marines and medivacs...
and also the 1/1/1 where they make 1 tank, and proceed to harrass with banshees etc. But the push will come with like 4+ banshees and a raven... This one really throws me off as I cant seem to ever kill a part of his army... Ill scout the tank and siege tech but have to leave due to raven. Cancels siege tech and goes mass banshee,marine, raven. I can only ever deal with the marines or the banshees and not survive the push. or the mass harassment that follows.
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there is so many variation of 1-1-1...
Yesterday i saw 2 versions of 1-1-1 way better than usual :
-> 8min40 : 3banshies (no cloak, 1 used only to hide the push) + 21 marines + 13vcs. When you scout 111 you usually have like 4stalker, 2 sentry, 2 zelots at this timming and die. If you know it's comming it's quite ez to kill, but i don't see how you can scout the 1gaz no tank in time so it's almost impossible to hold this.
-> 10mn30 : 5tank (no siege) 4 banshie (no cloak) 22 marines and 35 vcs. Even if i know it's comming, i'm not able to hold this shit. You can't even engage at the middle of the map because of no siege nor raven are needed to be effective.
the only way i see to beat 111 is to find a strong timming push or maybe some dt builds
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EPT
