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Just saw some sick play at MLG, and thought Kiwikaki's build for going against 1/1/1 is really effective, it was just executed poorly (really poor engagement).
If he spots the gas from Terran (sign of possible 1/1/1), he goes 1gate-robo-FE. (no first zealot). Gets the observer out, checks for 1/1/1. if 1/1/1 he cancels expansion, drops down 3 gateways, and a stargate. has the stargate pumping out a couple of phoenix, and the warpgates constantly pumping out zealots and small number of sentries, and has an immortal or 2 when engagement happens.
Would definitely suggest a lot of protoss players check out the 3rd game, of Kiwikaki vs Puma in MLG Raleigh, I'm sure you'll learn a lot.
(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1).
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There is no counter to this build... srsly ive tried everything. Im master level protoss and i always lose to this build. Its clearly OP. In GSL nobody can even hold this buid eitheir so how the fuck do you even defend against it ??
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Just saw some sick play at MLG, and thought Kiwikaki's build for going against 1/1/1 is really effective, it was just executed poorly (really poor engagement).
If he spots the gas from Terran (sign of possible 1/1/1), he goes 1gate-robo-FE. (no first zealot). Gets the observer out, checks for 1/1/1. if 1/1/1 he cancels expansion, drops down 3 gateways, and a stargate. has the stargate pumping out a couple of phoenix, and the warpgates constantly pumping out zealots and small number of sentries, and has an immortal or 2 when engagement happens.
Would definitely suggest a lot of protoss players check out the 3rd game, of Kiwikaki vs Puma in MLG Raleigh, I'm sure you'll learn a lot.
(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1).
I dont see how he could have engaged much better other than force fielding further back and maybe lifting the tanks, the marines just shredded everything
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only counter to 1/1/1 -> gg
User was warned for this post
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On August 29 2011 00:49 Huntz wrote:Show nested quote +Just saw some sick play at MLG, and thought Kiwikaki's build for going against 1/1/1 is really effective, it was just executed poorly (really poor engagement).
If he spots the gas from Terran (sign of possible 1/1/1), he goes 1gate-robo-FE. (no first zealot). Gets the observer out, checks for 1/1/1. if 1/1/1 he cancels expansion, drops down 3 gateways, and a stargate. has the stargate pumping out a couple of phoenix, and the warpgates constantly pumping out zealots and small number of sentries, and has an immortal or 2 when engagement happens.
Would definitely suggest a lot of protoss players check out the 3rd game, of Kiwikaki vs Puma in MLG Raleigh, I'm sure you'll learn a lot.
(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1). I dont see how he could have engaged much better other than force fielding further back and maybe lifting the tanks, the marines just shredded everything
I saw that too. He engaged waaay too soon. His eco was way higher and they were no where near his base. He was delaying really well, getting more army etc but then attacked at a silly time. If hedve waited a couple minutes, as he oculd have, hedve done way better.
Obviously i dont know if hedve won, but i expect so. Rule of thumb, if you have better eco and worse army, dont attack :/
If I had to guess though id defeinately say he was holding until the silly enagemanent. He oculdve easily had more units.
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Just spitballing here, but it seems to me like you can lock the terran into his base indefinitely with infinite force fields. If you get a few phoeneix on top of that the terran can't even ferry out.
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On August 29 2011 01:42 imbecile wrote:
Just spitballing here, but it seems to me like you can lock the terran into his base indefinitely with infinite force fields. If you get a few phoeneix on top of that the terran can't even ferry out.
one scan and 1 or 2 seiged tanks and gg ur contain. Ive tried it too, but usually they dont push out till 2 tanks anyway so it really doesnt slow them down that much
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On August 29 2011 02:06 drybones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 01:42 imbecile wrote:
Just spitballing here, but it seems to me like you can lock the terran into his base indefinitely with infinite force fields. If you get a few phoeneix on top of that the terran can't even ferry out. one scan and 1 or 2 seiged tanks and gg ur contain. Ive tried it too, but usually they dont push out till 2 tanks anyway so it really doesnt slow them down that much
Yep, can be tricky to control. But I'd say easier than controlling the fight once it is out of the base.
Spreading the sentries out, keep them out of range and only ever moving one into range for the cast ... it's tedious, but it should be doable.
And the fact that he will only move out late means that you can build up a lot of energy.
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well banshees are out too so they can come out and snipe sentries or wreak havoc on your base. They may even just try to draw ur units within tank fire and if u dont follow the banshee can freely do tons of damage. its a mess, i like the idea but its really hard to pull off.
maybe a warp prism with a few sentries could work just drop one put down a ff and pick him back up, this way they are safe from banshees and tanks so just dont let any marines out. eventually id imagine this would force a viking which just run and drop lol if u see one
pretty sure the FF distance is < the tank seige range so you will lose alot of sentries trying to ff so this whole plan may just be a flop
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On August 29 2011 00:13 Mairou wrote:
There is no counter to this build... srsly ive tried everything. Im master level protoss and i always lose to this build. Its clearly OP. In GSL nobody can even hold this buid eitheir so how the fuck do you even defend against it ??
No, you didn't try everything. If you cut probes at the right time you are half way through to holding it (watch Huk vs Tri master)
Another half is flanking.
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Hmm interesting, the way CombatEx taught us (jokes aside please) is to play it out like BW, where you build a certain amount of Stalkers (Dragoons), then Zealots to tank. Engage in the middle of the map while losing only Zealots, warp in more Zealots and engaging again while keeping Stalkers alive.
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On August 29 2011 02:36 drybones wrote:
well banshees are out too so they can come out and snipe sentries or wreak havoc on your base. They may even just try to draw ur units within tank fire and if u dont follow the banshee can freely do tons of damage. its a mess, i like the idea but its really hard to pull off.
maybe a warp prism with a few sentries could work just drop one put down a ff and pick him back up, this way they are safe from banshees and tanks so just dont let any marines out. eventually id imagine this would force a viking which just run and drop lol if u see one
pretty sure the FF distance is < the tank seige range so you will lose alot of sentries trying to ff so this whole plan may just be a flop
That's what the phoenix if for. Seriously, the build is almost exactly what Kiwikaki did against Puma, just that you keep the sentries at his base and keep anything from escaping by air with phoenix. And you keep the nexus.
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If i see a bunker or a fast 2 gas with my scouting probe/probes, i instantly assume 1-1-1 (because its the metagame) and just 1gate expand. By the time he hits, you will be on 4gates and a robo with an extremely powerful economy and a better developed army because you have been on 2 bases for a bit. easy win with immortal zealot stalker.
Alternativly you can get phoenix charglot which is a good counter to the composition (again, 1 gate expandin)
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On August 28 2011 18:22 wei2coolman wrote:
...
(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1).
LOL
Using QTIPs version I win ~40% of the games....better than my usual 0%. I was hoping MLG would show me a build that absolutely crushes it, but it came up short. Oh well.
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On August 29 2011 05:41 Champ24 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 18:22 wei2coolman wrote:
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(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1). LOL Using QTIPs version I win ~40% of the games....better than my usual 0%. I was hoping MLG would show me a build that absolutely crushes it, but it came up short. Oh well.
Sjow tried to 1-1-1 and got raped haaaard by stalker pressure.
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On August 29 2011 06:01 Squigly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 05:41 Champ24 wrote:On August 28 2011 18:22 wei2coolman wrote:
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(Yes kiwi lost, but i think is build is very very viable against 1/1/1). LOL Using QTIPs version I win ~40% of the games....better than my usual 0%. I was hoping MLG would show me a build that absolutely crushes it, but it came up short. Oh well. Sjow tried to 1-1-1 and got raped haaaard by stalker pressure.
in all matches on MLG, terrans have been losing so many games to protoss cuz they didnt made bunkers. thats exactly how sjow fucked up 
proper terrans make a bunker at 4 min and should be safe against early pressure
Id say, make sure you get your zealot + immortal sandwiching at the back, so they can acces the tanks , forcefields behind the marines so they cant run away. im mid masters and 90% of the time crush it this way. 1 gate expo then add robo then 2 gates when you scout it add 2 extra gate so you can reinforce fast enough since your expo will kick in by the time the push arrives 8-9 mins.. all on 2 gas (2nd gass @ ~30 supply) only get max 4 stalkers rest zealot sentry immortal (only 2 or so because they cost to much money)
also cut probes!
goodluck
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At diamond level I don't often see a flawless 1-1-1 hit me, but I have at least brought my chances to 50% with this:
1 gate FE, robo, add 2 gates, obs scout, if you scout no CC going up then stop at 26-30 probes (depending on position) with 2 geysers. Add 2 more gates (to 5) when you can afford with constant production. Constant chrono on immortals, make CERTAIN to look at starport tech lab for cloak researching, if no cloak then 3-4 stalkers to poke up the front to try and slow the push, without taking any hp damage. Composition largely zealots, 3-4 sentries and immortals. Engage his army in the most open area possible and only when UNSEIGED, guardian shield vital, care with FFs not to prevent your units from attacking (in fact, I think you really only need to do FFs if you see him stutter stepping his marines as there is no stim to make it effective). If you make no mistakes, you will most likely completely trade armies, and this is when you need to warp in stalkers to kill the banshees. If you do a trade, get an obs into his base. If a CC is building, take a robo bay and 2 more geysers and resume probes. If a second push is preparing, squeeze in a few more probes and maybe a geyser, and continue with the same composition.
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On August 29 2011 11:11 LtLolburger wrote:
At diamond level I don't often see a flawless 1-1-1 hit me, but I have at least brought my chances to 50% with this:
1 gate FE, robo, add 2 gates, obs scout, if you scout no CC going up then stop at 26-30 probes (depending on position) with 2 geysers. Add 2 more gates (to 5) when you can afford with constant production. Constant chrono on immortals, make CERTAIN to look at starport tech lab for cloak researching, if no cloak then 3-4 stalkers to poke up the front to try and slow the push, without taking any hp damage. Composition largely zealots, 3-4 sentries and immortals. Engage his army in the most open area possible and only when UNSEIGED, guardian shield vital, care with FFs not to prevent your units from attacking (in fact, I think you really only need to do FFs if you see him stutter stepping his marines as there is no stim to make it effective). If you make no mistakes, you will most likely completely trade armies, and this is when you need to warp in stalkers to kill the banshees. If you do a trade, get an obs into his base. If a CC is building, take a robo bay and 2 more geysers and resume probes. If a second push is preparing, squeeze in a few more probes and maybe a geyser, and continue with the same composition.
Lol - yes, this is pretty much what I cover in my guide.
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On August 28 2011 11:31 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 11:20 Squigly wrote:
Hey quick question. Say i know from the start that this is coming. Say ive meta gamed or something or im just practicing. Hes not expoing, hes just flat out pushing.
Should this be easy to hold with 1 base play? Apart from 3 gate SG which facerolls it, what are the options? Y u no 3 gate SG?
3 Gate SG is done blindly - and is quite all-in. Please see InControl vs Trimaster if you want to see how "safe" 3 Gate SG all-in is against 1-1-1.
The whole point of this guide is to play standard, deal with the all-in, and be substantially ahead.
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EPT
