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[D] The "Gretorp" upgrades. - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
June 05 2011 13:24 GMT
#61
I would imagine Building Armor to be amazing in TvT. Marine drops get weakened immensely. I'd guess it would be worth getting around the 3base stage of the game.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44256 Posts
June 05 2011 13:27 GMT
#62
Generally you want to spend as few resources on defense as possible, so you can work on economy and your macro. Banking resources into not only static defense but also into upgrades for those static defenses is usually a waste of money. If you're quick enough, your army should be able to handle what your defense is for. The best defense is a good offense
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
June 05 2011 13:36 GMT
#63
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking(?) and the Building Armor are solid upgrades, I always get them after 3-3 or 1-1 if I am not going to invest in an armory or just don't need one at all
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
DuneBug
Profile Joined April 2010
United States668 Posts
June 05 2011 13:39 GMT
#64
Building armor is such a solid upgrade in all matchups, when to get it however?

Huge defense bonus against marines zealots and zerglings,

The bunker capacity upgrade seems kind of gimmicky i could only see it being used during a bunker push, but for defense may's well just throw down another bunker and salvage it.

Hi-Sec auto tracking good against mutas, but I think armor is more important. Lets your scv'sg et more of a chance to turret repair.
TIME TO SAY GOODNIGHT BRO!
mikiao
Profile Joined May 2010
United States161 Posts
June 05 2011 13:43 GMT
#65
On June 05 2011 22:22 EmilA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2011 20:49 ZeromuS wrote:
neosteel to me seems really cool if you put 2 scvs inside the bunker to repair it from within instead of trying to repair it from outside. Forcefields wont stop you ever that way :D


Are you certain that this is possible? I don't think so at least - I know that SCVs can repair other units loaded into the same vehicle as them, but the vehicle itself?



Nope...just tried it. The SCVs cower in the bunker like chickens, but don't repair until you unload them.

Oh well.
"I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds. "-Duke Leto Atreides
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
June 05 2011 13:44 GMT
#66
On June 05 2011 13:46 XDJuicebox wrote:
I got Hi-Sec Auto Tracking by accident once...

The range actually does make a huge difference. I don't budget my moneys enough to get it in a normal game though.


lolz, same here
I got hi-sec auto tracking vs a toss once and then went raven to be able to push against DTs, then got more ravens out because he massed blink stalkers and I wanted to have enough PDDs.
Let me say that the PDD and turrets were a game killer, and I ended up massing Ravens FTW.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Frequencyy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States344 Posts
June 05 2011 14:11 GMT
#67
On June 05 2011 18:21 .Mthex- wrote:
I kind of agree, not getting these upgrades seems like a complete waste, but I think I know why they're so unincorporated in current strategy.
People are still trying to phase BW strategies into an sc2 scene, and any new problem is trying to be dealt with by using an old solution. I think as the game progresses into further stages, people will see the usefulness of these upgrades.

-- Consider this: A terran is on 4 base against a muta/ling baneling player, he has neosteel frame and building armor.
a PF and a bunker with 8 marines in it essentially negates any harass that isn't large enough to be considered a full out assault. 8 stimmed marines inside a bunker could deal SERIOUS blows to any mutalisk offense, and the planetary shuts down ground forces entirely.

The game just need to progress more. Terrans need to get inventive again.

Agree with this guy completely. That is if it doesn't take until HoS for these upgrades to get used, because who knows if they'll get removed or not.
You will not do incredible things without an incredible dream
gondolin
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
France332 Posts
June 05 2011 14:27 GMT
#68
While we are speaking about unusual upgrades, do anyone get medivac energy upgrade?
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
June 05 2011 14:33 GMT
#69
as people said, the weapon and armor ones are too essential. however, even in lategame people don't get the upgrades, which is kidna sad, tehy do heaps ag ainst fast at tacking/low damage units and i can see terran dealing with zerg much better if you have bunkers near your cc's to cover scv's being attacked and high armor, higher range turrets obliterating those stupid mutalisks

also a couple of planetary fortresses i nkey locations does wonders too
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
June 05 2011 15:04 GMT
#70
On June 05 2011 23:27 gondolin wrote:
While we are speaking about unusual upgrades, do anyone get medivac energy upgrade?


Sometimes, against players who go heavy zergling or roach and I go with a lot of racks
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 05 2011 15:23 GMT
#71
On June 05 2011 15:29 ZiegFeld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2011 13:27 wei2coolman wrote:
For those who don't know, Gretorp is one of the very few pro Terrans (probably the only one) that get these upgrades:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 range to auto turrets, missle turrets, pdd, and planetary fortress)
Building Armor (+2 armor to all buildings)
Neosteel Frame (Increase load size for bunker, planetary, and command center)

I've always never quite understood why, and was wondering why more terrans don't get these upgrades?

Hi-Sec Auto Tracking is 100/100, but can effectively shut down any Muta Harrass super hard, and can make 2 missle turrets completely deadly, especially with building armor.

Building Armor pretty much makes planetary invulnerable to any mass ling rush, and any muta harass.

Neosteel Frame pretty much allows mass bunker defense to be SUPER SUPER effective against both zerg and protoss, in combination w/ building armor this seems like a very very strong defense.

The only real reason I can see these upgrades not being used is simply because getting the +attack +armor upgrades are more important, but even when terrans are 3/3 they don't get these upgrades. I feel that the small investment into these upgrades can significantly alter terrans ability to push out without having to worry about any type of Muta harras, and their ability to crunch down on important offensive choke points.

What are your thoughts?
Defending means your not attacking. Investing in defending means your attacks are weak. You must constantly attack Zerg as Terran.

Logic son!

Not really, defending w/ buildings means you can attack with your units, without having to worry about a counter attack of sorts. Like I said "it can alter terrans ability to push out".
liftlift > tsm
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
June 05 2011 15:31 GMT
#72
GoOdy does use Hi-sec autotracking too
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 05 2011 15:32 GMT
#73
On June 06 2011 00:04 Huggerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2011 23:27 gondolin wrote:
While we are speaking about unusual upgrades, do anyone get medivac energy upgrade?


Sometimes, against players who go heavy zergling or roach and I go with a lot of racks

Never, and I think the upgrade is pretty inconsequential most of the time, unless its a very specific matchup. Medivacs have a pretty long staying time (compared to other spell casters), that means they're less likely to die, and survive throughout a game. So as the medivac lives, the initial boost of energy that comes from the upgrade becomes less and less significant. Also, the second a medivac spawns it still has enough energy to heal, its not like you need the extra energy to start healing.
liftlift > tsm
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
June 05 2011 15:36 GMT
#74
Thing is if I go heavy bio against zerg I want to be aggressive often so I'll be stimming a lot. With that and me generally not wanting to make a lot of medivacs which could be more marines / marauders / expansions / upgrades / more racks I want the medivacs I do make to be as useful as possible.

It's hardly an essential upgrade for sure but I do think it is useful
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
June 05 2011 15:38 GMT
#75
I like to make a lot of banshees against zerg too, so with producing 1 medivac at a time from each starport, makes some sense having more energy when they spawn if you are being aggressive
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
June 05 2011 15:49 GMT
#76
Whenever I off-race as T, I like to get the turret upgrade against Z. I didnt even know there was an upgrade for bunker capacity or building armor, but it seems like a small cost to make planetary fortresses even more ridiculous against zerg ground, although late game against a muta ball i feel like the turret range might not even help...

anyways, the reason Gretorp upgrades aren't seen much is simply because Terran aren't really having too much trouble with P or Z, since what they are doing now works almost perfectly find. The Terran possibilities are endless :c
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
June 05 2011 15:59 GMT
#77
On June 05 2011 14:32 LaiShin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2011 13:49 Lewan72 wrote:
@ Mnijkymirl

Like someone said earlier even at 3/3 rarely terrans get these upgrades.

And in the late game a couple or maruaders/marines are a small price to pay for +2armor +1 range ect.

And I don't even play terran. Lol.


When terran infantry is at 3/3 or even 2/2, zerg will stop getting mutas. For the sole reason that muta upgrades will never be able to keep up with infantry's, due to their ground upgrades. At most, it's at 2/0.

In games where you have to rely on the armor and range upgrades to survive the muta packs, you have already lost the game.


They aren't to survive the muta packs, they're to completely nullify the threat of a backstab when you're trying to push up. Mutas have an extremely difficult time against turrets with armor and hi-sec.

I think the upgrades are useful in the super late game once 3/3 is done and the money is starting to pile up.
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
.Madness
Profile Joined March 2011
United States94 Posts
June 05 2011 16:03 GMT
#78
I'd say most top tier players dodge these due to the fact that their minerals are generally already sinked into units and more important upgrades. If they did get these it would be most likely after 3/3 and 200/200 if they remember them.
I'm not bad, I'm just incredibly good at sucking.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
June 05 2011 16:16 GMT
#79
One thing that could make Hi-Sec good in TvP is : can a PF with Hi-Sec hit a stalker hidden behind the mineral line? Due to their range they can usually harass without retaliation and in the late game when you're on 3+ bases, a single stalker forcing you to split units and lose mining time if painful (one of the things that killed Thorzain in TSL3 Ro8 game 4 imho), so if the upgrade allow a PF to nullify that, it's all good, and one less thing to worry about for your multitasking.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
June 05 2011 16:18 GMT
#80
Even as a not-terran, it's really obvious that Building Armor is mainly for Turrets. Mutas deal 9 damage, splash is 3-1. If you take two away from that and an addtional 1 base armor... you know... you need a LOT of mutas to take a turret down, or two, or one that's getting repaired.
http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
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