[D] The "Gretorp" upgrades. - Page 2

Techno

1900 Posts

June 05 2011 06:00 GMT

#21

Hi-Sec Auto Tracking is 100/100, but can effectively shut down any Muta Harrass super hard

Actually it just adds 1 range to your turrets, which the 25 mutas were going to kill anyways. The building armour upgrade is the only one I would even consider getting before 3/3 marines. Maybe if I dont make marines, but have you heard about how good they are?

starcraft911

Korea (South)1263 Posts

June 05 2011 06:03 GMT

#22

I've used the armor and range against IdrA and Vibe, but that's because they seem to be the only NA zergs who use mutas effectively. Some others have tried but I they usually have shit control and i just A move them w/ marines. It's really situational. I don't think it's better to get them over weapon upgrades (ever) so I'd only get them with a double ebay setup and if you see your opponent is upgrading melee then you really should keep up with armor.

Prior to 3-3 i think they are a waste to get not because they aren't good, but because having an extra armor on marines is better in virtually every real situation. If they were upgradeable from the orbital or something I'd get the building armor almost every game I think, but to occupy the ebay and delay your upgrades seems silly.

On June 05 2011 15:00 Techno wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes I agree with this... If a player is using mutas en mass your turrets are going to die in one volley regardless and you'll need marine or thor support.... It's a shame that seeker missiles are garbage, however... They cost more energy than storm and fungal, they never land, they do less damage, they don't come auto researched, come at a later tech, casted from a more expensive unit... makes sense to me! Would be nice if seeker missiles had > 0% chance of hitting a muta stack.

Halcyondaze

United States509 Posts

June 05 2011 06:03 GMT

#23

On June 05 2011 15:00 Techno wrote:

Show nested quote +

Marines are the counter to everything, so good.

sleigh bells

United States358 Posts

June 05 2011 06:04 GMT

#24

no reason not to get them if you are 3/3. lots of players float tons of money at the end of the game...why not?

i get them when i'm messing around in team games with mass raven. +1 range AND +2 turret armor? it's pretty kewl

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

June 05 2011 06:05 GMT

#25

On June 05 2011 15:03 Halcyondaze wrote:

Show nested quote +

Marines are the counter to everything, so good.

Only if the Marines can catch Mutas out of position, and because Mutas can fly and abuse terrain, its really hard for marines to catch mutas out of position.

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

June 05 2011 06:06 GMT

#26

I love them, I just don't want to build 3 ebays, and bio upgrades almost always take priority.

eviltomahawk

United States11135 Posts

June 05 2011 06:11 GMT

#27

I wonder if the range upgrade for the Planetary Fortress makes it easier for it to defend against harassing units shooting at SCVs in the small space between mineral patches and sometimes cliffs.

A lot of players will try to fit ranged units into that space and harass mineral lines from just outside the range of the PF, so it'll be interesting to see if the upgrade negates that tactic.

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

June 05 2011 06:12 GMT

#28

I think they have a place in the game, especially for a Mech Terran but since Bio is incorporated in almost all MU the EB time is used up, and late game I don't think the armor upgrades and the range upgrades will help a lot against big armies.

The Bunker space upgrade is kinda nice for split map situations IMHO

0neder

United States3733 Posts

June 05 2011 06:13 GMT

#29

On June 05 2011 13:30 superbabosheki wrote:
Mech Terrans almost always get turret range and building armor to stop muta harass due to the Thor's immobility since the ebay isn't used. If you play bio, the armor/wep is much more important to get.

The bunker/cc upgrade is useless.

Incorrect. DPS per area taken up by units is important in this game. Bunker capacity upgrade boosts DPS per area while maintaining the benefits of a bunker.

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

June 05 2011 06:15 GMT

#30

On June 05 2011 15:11 eviltomahawk wrote:
I wonder if the range upgrade for the Planetary Fortress makes it easier for it to defend against harassing units shooting at SCVs in the small space between mineral patches and sometimes cliffs.

A lot of players will try to fit ranged units into that space and harass mineral lines from just outside the range of the PF, so it'll be interesting to see if the upgrade negates that tactic.

Yeah it does. It prevents the hiding behind mineral patches.

naventus

United States1337 Posts

June 05 2011 06:28 GMT

#31

All these upgrades will become more important as T's figure out mass bunkering against Z late game.

Mass bunkers restricts ground mobility and is a safety net against mass infestor / too many baneling.

ZiegFeld

351 Posts

June 05 2011 06:29 GMT

#32

On June 05 2011 13:27 wei2coolman wrote:
For those who don't know, Gretorp is one of the very few pro Terrans (probably the only one) that get these upgrades:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 range to auto turrets, missle turrets, pdd, and planetary fortress)
Building Armor (+2 armor to all buildings)
Neosteel Frame (Increase load size for bunker, planetary, and command center)

I've always never quite understood why, and was wondering why more terrans don't get these upgrades?

Hi-Sec Auto Tracking is 100/100, but can effectively shut down any Muta Harrass super hard, and can make 2 missle turrets completely deadly, especially with building armor.

Building Armor pretty much makes planetary invulnerable to any mass ling rush, and any muta harass.

Neosteel Frame pretty much allows mass bunker defense to be SUPER SUPER effective against both zerg and protoss, in combination w/ building armor this seems like a very very strong defense.

The only real reason I can see these upgrades not being used is simply because getting the +attack +armor upgrades are more important, but even when terrans are 3/3 they don't get these upgrades. I feel that the small investment into these upgrades can significantly alter terrans ability to push out without having to worry about any type of Muta harras, and their ability to crunch down on important offensive choke points.

What are your thoughts?

Defending means your not attacking. Investing in defending means your attacks are weak. You must constantly attack Zerg as Terran.

Logic son!

nanaoei

3358 Posts

June 05 2011 06:29 GMT

#33

honestly i think it's difficult to remember the hotkeys of those upgrades, without first having speciifically incorporated in some build lmao

it's silly to say but it's like a personal pet peeve to try and produce soemthing that i don't know the hotkey to, and i think more than a couple players can relate to that

i only know the hotkey to raven seeker missiles because of so much fooling around for example

AndreiDaGiant

United States394 Posts

June 05 2011 06:48 GMT

#34

if you play mech and dont get them its a mistake imo... no reason not to, however i do think that the engineering bay is usually busy if your going bio and its not worth getting behind in upgrades unless its late game...

mholden02

387 Posts

June 05 2011 07:26 GMT

#35

The game is young, mech is seldom used so Terrans aren't relying on Terran defensive capabilities, A turtling Terran is a rare thing indeed. Hopefully HOTS will have a factory unit that makes factory play more viable. Factory play opens the door to those upgrades.

I'd like to see Reapers and Hunter Seeker re-worked so they become viable. HS in particular could be a very effective spell with some tweaks. It would also make the raven more useful in TvZ and more Terrans might use it.

mage36

415 Posts

June 05 2011 09:00 GMT

#36

I think the problem is in the pro level in korea, muta harass in the mineral line doesn't last too long anyway. even if it does, the huge ball of mutas are better dealt with thors because of the splash. While turrets can only hit one muta at a time. And unless you play like Flash, no one gets a whole ton of turrets.

Maliris

Northern Ireland2557 Posts

June 05 2011 09:06 GMT

#37

Building armour is pretty useful for turrets against a critical mass of mutalisks, and it should be used more under that circumstance. I'm not so sure about turret range/bunker capacity upgrades though, even in endgame situations with mass resources at 200/200 im not sure its worth getting. I mean you can say "well it doesn't cost THAT much" which is true, but it doesn't help much either and you might be better off making more orbitals or making extra factories/starports to remax faster (they're pretty gas intensive buildings)

its also worth noting that it takes up ebay time to research them, and at 3/3 you don't even usually need those upgrades anymore, because you probably already suffered massive damage from a monstrous amount of mutalisks raping turrets and production when you leave your base. Making a 3rd ebay might be worth it though if muta numbers get out of hand but you still want double upgrades... i haven't watched Gretorp play before so I don't know if he does this

just my 2 cents

L3g3nd_

New Zealand10461 Posts

June 05 2011 09:10 GMT

#38

these upgrades are pretty standard for late game terran

uSnAmplified

United States1029 Posts

June 05 2011 09:14 GMT

#39

They are good but are both done in the ebay, where bio ups is more important. Its better to have stronger marines for drops and engagements to keep the muta ball from growing to big, because 30 mutas laugh at turrets even if they have the upgrades.

I get them after 3/3 bio, or if i forget an armory lol.

.Mthex-

United States168 Posts

June 05 2011 09:21 GMT

#40

I kind of agree, not getting these upgrades seems like a complete waste, but I think I know why they're so unincorporated in current strategy.
People are still trying to phase BW strategies into an sc2 scene, and any new problem is trying to be dealt with by using an old solution. I think as the game progresses into further stages, people will see the usefulness of these upgrades.

-- Consider this: A terran is on 4 base against a muta/ling baneling player, he has neosteel frame and building armor.
a PF and a bunker with 8 marines in it essentially negates any harass that isn't large enough to be considered a full out assault. 8 stimmed marines inside a bunker could deal SERIOUS blows to any mutalisk offense, and the planetary shuts down ground forces entirely.

The game just need to progress more. Terrans need to get inventive again.

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[D] The "Gretorp" upgrades. - Page 2

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