• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:25
CEST 04:25
KST 11:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall5HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL39Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
$5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL Help: rep cant save BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall Where did Hovz go?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 547 users

[D] The "Gretorp" upgrades.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 05 2011 04:27 GMT
#1
For those who don't know, Gretorp is one of the very few pro Terrans (probably the only one) that get these upgrades:
Hi-Sec Auto Tracking (+1 range to auto turrets, missle turrets, pdd, and planetary fortress)
Building Armor (+2 armor to all buildings)
Neosteel Frame (Increase load size for bunker, planetary, and command center)

I've always never quite understood why, and was wondering why more terrans don't get these upgrades?

Hi-Sec Auto Tracking is 100/100, but can effectively shut down any Muta Harrass super hard, and can make 2 missle turrets completely deadly, especially with building armor.

Building Armor pretty much makes planetary invulnerable to any mass ling rush, and any muta harass.

Neosteel Frame pretty much allows mass bunker defense to be SUPER SUPER effective against both zerg and protoss, in combination w/ building armor this seems like a very very strong defense.

The only real reason I can see these upgrades not being used is simply because getting the +attack +armor upgrades are more important, but even when terrans are 3/3 they don't get these upgrades. I feel that the small investment into these upgrades can significantly alter terrans ability to push out without having to worry about any type of Muta harras, and their ability to crunch down on important offensive choke points.

What are your thoughts?
liftlift > tsm
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
June 05 2011 04:30 GMT
#2
Mech Terrans almost always get turret range and building armor to stop muta harass due to the Thor's immobility since the ebay isn't used. If you play bio, the armor/wep is much more important to get.

The bunker/cc upgrade is useless.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 04:32:02
June 05 2011 04:31 GMT
#3
On June 05 2011 13:30 superbabosheki wrote:
Mech Terrans almost always get turret range and building armor to stop muta harass due to the Thor's immobility since the ebay isn't used. If you play bio, the armor/wep is much more important to get.

The bunker/cc upgrade is useless.


Even Meching terran rarely get turret range, even in pro play. The only people I've seen getting it was Select against Idra in the recent MLG match, and Gretorp. It effectively just shut down Idra's muta harass pretty hard, but Select still got stomped. I'm just surprised we don't see these upgrades more often.
liftlift > tsm
Warrice
Profile Joined July 2010
United States565 Posts
June 05 2011 04:32 GMT
#4
turret range isnt that rare
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 05 2011 04:34 GMT
#5
On June 05 2011 13:32 Warrice wrote:
turret range isnt that rare

But its rarely paired w/ building armor. That's the thing that bugs me, cause even w/ +1 range turrets can still be sniped fairly quickly by a swarm of mutas, however the +2 building armor pretty much allows them to take WAY WAY more damage.
liftlift > tsm
Mnijykmirl
Profile Joined February 2010
United States299 Posts
June 05 2011 04:43 GMT
#6
Engineering bays are tight on time for bio upgrades with bio, and mech is tight on gas. I mean, hey, why doesn't terran just get all this stuff that costs gas? Well that's great. We don't have anything to spare. Werp. Forgive my attitude.
XDJuicebox
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States593 Posts
June 05 2011 04:46 GMT
#7
I got Hi-Sec Auto Tracking by accident once...

The range actually does make a huge difference. I don't budget my moneys enough to get it in a normal game though.
And then you know what happened all of a sudden?
Lewan72
Profile Joined April 2011
United States381 Posts
June 05 2011 04:49 GMT
#8
@ Mnijkymirl

Like someone said earlier even at 3/3 rarely terrans get these upgrades.

And in the late game a couple or maruaders/marines are a small price to pay for +2armor +1 range ect.

And I don't even play terran. Lol.
MC / Hero / MMA / Bomber / Coca / Suppy
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
June 05 2011 04:50 GMT
#9
In tvt I always get hisec auto tracking when I go mech. In the other matchups usually I would rather have attack/armor upgrades instead of researching those.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 04:58:11
June 05 2011 04:55 GMT
#10
On June 05 2011 13:34 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2011 13:32 Warrice wrote:
turret range isnt that rare

But its rarely paired w/ building armor. That's the thing that bugs me, cause even w/ +1 range turrets can still be sniped fairly quickly by a swarm of mutas, however the +2 building armor pretty much allows them to take WAY WAY more damage.

Turret range researches about twice as fast as building armor and is also 50/50 cheaper, meaning it clogs up less in terms of bio upgrades (or takes up less gas when meching). It's useful since it gives 3 range mutas even less room to work with and turrets are needed to defend given the thor's speed.

Building armor I feel is superfluous. If you have 2 turrets in the mineral line, you can just have scvs repair turrets under attack. If your opponents have enough mutas to brute force your turrets, you probably shouldn't count on building armor to save your ass. If you really need to defend against mass mutas, might as well buy a 300/200 thor and leave it in base instead of 150/150 armor + 2 turrets.

Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
iruga
Profile Joined December 2010
United States28 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 05:13:46
June 05 2011 05:13 GMT
#11
99% of the time Terrans are going for bio upgrades first and by the time you get all your bio upgrades often time the zerg has moved on from muta's which is the only real reason to get hi sec. It is useful for mech but I think zergs are starting to realize how hard infesters counter mech so they are going more for them. In the Idra select game he started to get mutas and when he seen that Select was going to stick to going mech he almost completely switched into infesters with neural parasite.


So its just one of those upgrades that by the time you want to use it, the zerg isn't even using the unit its good for. But I do agree that there is really no reason to not have building armor.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
June 05 2011 05:18 GMT
#12
I get everyone of them except for Bunker upgrade. That ones totally useless since bunkers become pretty obsolete after the early to mid game.

The other ones help alot against Muta Harass, and Mech style play with PFs, and with slow pushing with turrets. Their not something i rush for, but that i consider when i have the money to do so. Though In TvT i've been opting to get Turret range because banshees piss me off.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
-Jambi-
Profile Joined September 2010
United States60 Posts
June 05 2011 05:22 GMT
#13
I think he does have a point.... I mean against a player like julyzerg, possibly getting turret range, and building armor would be EXTREMELY good considering he is so ling, bane, and muta heavy and relies on throwing units at you (once he is 2-3 bases) until you lose focus and get overrun, and maybe to defeat something like this, would require just turtling hardcore until you get 3-4 bases and a 200/200 army and can resupply decently, then push out. Especially in the lower leagues and even in pro matches sometimes on maps like xel naga where the zerg at times crashes 30 banes into the pf right as you are taking the gold, building armor could be extremely beneficial as well.

Bunker upgrade, I think I only seen it in one pro match effectively, and maybe it will be used more in the future as the game develops even more. It could be useful on maps like tal darim in extreme late game where terran is expanding nicely and the match is at 200/200, they could throw down some pfs and bunkers and that would help with the slow resupply problem, and to not be overrun by the speedy reinforcements on z and p.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
June 05 2011 05:23 GMT
#14
these upgrades are designed for defensive usage and you dont want to stay defensive in a game for long unless you are in some special situation.

out of all 3, the most commonthing you could see is turret range since in PvZ T need a tons of turrets and PF to defends vs counter attack, the rest of them are not as useful at all.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
LaiShin
Profile Joined November 2005
Australia978 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 05:33:45
June 05 2011 05:32 GMT
#15
On June 05 2011 13:49 Lewan72 wrote:
@ Mnijkymirl

Like someone said earlier even at 3/3 rarely terrans get these upgrades.

And in the late game a couple or maruaders/marines are a small price to pay for +2armor +1 range ect.

And I don't even play terran. Lol.


When terran infantry is at 3/3 or even 2/2, zerg will stop getting mutas. For the sole reason that muta upgrades will never be able to keep up with infantry's, due to their ground upgrades. At most, it's at 2/0.

In games where you have to rely on the armor and range upgrades to survive the muta packs, you have already lost the game.
-Jambi-
Profile Joined September 2010
United States60 Posts
June 05 2011 05:37 GMT
#16
Also does detection range increase with that upgrade or is it only for shooting range on pfs and turrets???
Blyadischa
Profile Joined April 2010
419 Posts
June 05 2011 05:41 GMT
#17
On June 05 2011 14:23 NB wrote:
these upgrades are designed for defensive usage and you dont want to stay defensive in a game for long unless you are in some special situation.

out of all 3, the most commonthing you could see is turret range since in PvZ T need a tons of turrets and PF to defends vs counter attack, the rest of them are not as useful at all.


Building armor makes it so lings do about 1 damage to planetary fortresses, and makes muta harass much less effective.

The upgrades don't make you defensive. In mech play or even marine/tank TvZ, it's about slowly pushing and getting into good positions slowly. Turrets help when you have to run your marine around, building 1-2 can help you fortify your position and prevent muta harass when your marines move around.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 05:47:10
June 05 2011 05:45 GMT
#18
I get range and armor every game, usually once 2/2 is done, or 1/1 is done and I forgot to get an armory.

Usually by the time I'm taking my third, which is 95% of the time a PF, I like to have the +2 armor JUST to make it that much harder to bring down. They really have to commit into killing it, giving me the option to flank, sack, or go attack.

Turret upgrade I get vs muta players, always. That extra shot or two is money to me.

I mean, I'm not near gretorps level, but I'm 1.3k masters at least.

Also does detection range increase with that upgrade or is it only for shooting range on pfs and turrets???

Detection range is 9, I believe. It doesn't change. Just gives PF range and turrets range.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Halcyondaze
Profile Joined January 2011
United States509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 05:55:15
June 05 2011 05:53 GMT
#19
You guys are really stretching. If you don't have a strategy designed around these upgrades, you shouldn't get them.

Edit: Also, a PF is so strong that 99% of the time they will not attack it anyway. The additional armor is trivial
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 06:00:39
June 05 2011 05:56 GMT
#20
On June 05 2011 14:53 Halcyondaze wrote:
You guys are really stretching. If you don't have a strategy designed around these upgrades, you shouldn't get them.

Edit: Also, a PF is so strong that 99% of the time they will not attack it anyway. The additional armor is trivial

You'd be surprised how fast 25 mutas kill a PF....

You don't necessarily need to design a strategy around these upgrades. You just try and squeeze them in there. I think its really good in mid game to late game, really prevents any shenanigans, and you can do the whole Big ol' ball of units, and straight up fight a zerg army. From what I'm seeing in the pro games, a lot of zergs are harassing, and doing serious side damage to Terran. All this damage accumalates and you can tell that the final stand the Terrans do against Zergs simply get CRUSHED. But what if Terran was able to get the perfect army comp, and do a 1 punch KO attack to Zergs?
liftlift > tsm
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
HSC 27: Groups A & B
CranKy Ducklings111
Liquipedia
OSC
20:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Gerald vs MojaLIVE!
ArT vs Jumy
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft239
Nina 159
RuFF_SC2 147
NeuroSwarm 132
CosmosSc2 52
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 791
Aegong 100
NaDa 63
Icarus 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever274
League of Legends
JimRising 755
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox815
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor105
Other Games
summit1g9957
tarik_tv2264
shahzam647
Maynarde134
Mew2King44
ZombieGrub18
ProTech4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1347
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• Hupsaiya 52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5372
• Jankos1328
• masondota2680
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 35m
RSL Revival
7h 35m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
13h 35m
Replay Cast
21h 35m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
1d 13h
FEL
1d 13h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.