Hey,

TOP Master player here, this build when well pulled is quiteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee efficient.

If you don't see it coming it smasher the shit out of you.

Wondering whats best to stop it, 1gate chrono sentries with forge or 2-3 gate with chrono stalkers

what do you guys think ?

Trying to find a way to stop this rather then microing the shit out of my 3-4 stalkers

(top masters opinions please )

gockel

Germany15 Posts

May 19 2011 10:27 GMT

#562

In "lower" leagues (silver-plat), SC2 is completely about playing safe. At least that's what I experienced so far. Some people play pro-BOs, some just play this game for random fun, and others have some mechanics, but still to completely strange buildorders, and still pump quite decent amounts of units out That seems to be the reason why people who stayed pretty long in such a "low" league start to bunker/cannon/spine-ling a lot. The last 20 early pushes (stim timing or whatever) were not scouted at all, but still met some decent defensive structures.
So I think pulling off this Cheese at a low level will be pretty tough.

Gulzt

Netherlands275 Posts

May 19 2011 11:44 GMT

#563

Aha, a top platinum player I faced pulled of a variation to this strat. I was instantly suspisious when I scouted the callsupply as zerg on the depot near the ramp but then it was already to late. I barely held it off but the dmg had been done and the next wave meant gg.

Going to check a few of the replays soon. Thanks for sharing!

skunk_works

United States109 Posts

May 19 2011 11:53 GMT

#564

i had this happen to me the other day in high diamond, a lucky scan caught all his scvs going down his ramp, and it was on shakuras so my bunker finished right as his units hit my ramp, heart was pounding lol.

diLLa

Netherlands247 Posts

May 19 2011 13:37 GMT

#565

thanks for sharing this build, now every single freaking terran i face on the ladder do this. Talk about repetitiveness

neverlast

Austria62 Posts

May 19 2011 15:12 GMT

#566

in bronze it does not work very well against T - as the % of players that block their ramp with a bunker is quite high.

locant

Australia45 Posts

May 19 2011 15:15 GMT

#567

So far this is working pretty good in high plat however when the wall in is seen only a few things have stopped me so far:

Toss: blindly getting a sentry or 2 out fast, basicly dead then

terran: randomly getting a bunker, if they are quick to repair its gg

zerg: havnt lost yet :D

ViperaViRuS

United States82 Posts

May 19 2011 18:34 GMT

#568

On May 19 2011 19:27 gockel wrote:
In "lower" leagues (silver-plat), SC2 is completely about playing safe. At least that's what I experienced so far. Some people play pro-BOs, some just play this game for random fun, and others have some mechanics, but still to completely strange buildorders, and still pump quite decent amounts of units out That seems to be the reason why people who stayed pretty long in such a "low" league start to bunker/cannon/spine-ling a lot. The last 20 early pushes (stim timing or whatever) were not scouted at all, but still met some decent defensive structures.
So I think pulling off this Cheese at a low level will be pretty tough.

I completely disagree with this. I deliberately tried this on a lower league account (Silver), it worked on Bronze, Silver, and Gold alike. It just requires good micro of unit placement, and stutter-stepping the units, as well as good placement of SCVs in order to successfully tank the damage. If they focus fire the Marines and you lose them, it's over.

D_K_night

Canada615 Posts

May 19 2011 19:34 GMT

#569

On May 19 2011 16:50 Geiko wrote:

Show nested quote +

All these problems are timing problems which you learn to deal with with a good deal of practise.
For example, on 4 players map, if your scout reached his base in time to see him put up a spine, experience tells you that if you push out now, his spine wont be done. So even if you don't have the right amount of marines, it's a good idea to push out a soon as you see him morphing that spine. Same goes for scouted roach warren. The idea is to always attack when your opponent is least ready.

Maybe scouting with the first scv who builds a barracks is a godd thing vs zerg opponents.

Best thing for me to do is enclose a replay to see what happened to me. I will say however, that I practiced this build to the point that I watch the clock, and at precisely 4:30 I pull my SCV's off the line and with all the marines I have, make the do-or-die march to his base.

I think what happened in that roach/crawler game is, my scout never made it inside his base to see anything(killed by lings). His first scouting drone came really fast too...and when he saw the depot/rax on the low ground, he immediately smelled cheese.

FairForever

Canada2392 Posts

May 19 2011 20:52 GMT

#570

I just won ZvT Shattered Temple close air spawn vs this, I think vZ it's a huge risk on some maps (Metal, Shattered Temple, Slag, etc.) because if you get ovie scouted it pretty much gives it away. I scouted a CC not building any SCVs and no gas, so pretty much figured it out (canceled 15 hatch, built two spines, and went fast banes over ling speed). Also left a ling outside to see when he moved out. The game was pretty one-sided (FYI I'm in mid-masters).

Not sure how to upload replays though. Seems a bit risky vs Zerg since there's a 1/3 chance you get scouted immediately and it's an auto-loss, and then obviously even if you don't get scouted first, they might catch on and still get you somehow.

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

May 19 2011 21:45 GMT

#571

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg, so annoying, everyone seems to read this thread
encountered it 2times today, the first time I got smashed, the second time I won, because I was going roach all-in myself (because I scouted 2fast rax, and I wanted to try how an roach allin performs vs that...)

djdoodoo

United Kingdom192 Posts

May 19 2011 21:51 GMT

#572

I tried this build a few times. It's a little tedious tbh but I like the wall off. I thought that they patched it so you couldn't wall off with 2 buildings anymore. Anyway now I'll be using this wall off to my advantage. It's very helpful.

Daimai

Sweden762 Posts

May 19 2011 21:53 GMT

#573

This tactic is stupidly easy to pull off and stupidly hard to counter. Had 2 games today with this, lost one and won one. In the second one the guy felt the need to drophack me though^^

but yeah a retarded build

Motat

315 Posts

May 19 2011 22:23 GMT

#574

On May 19 2011 20:44 Gulzt wrote:
Aha, a top platinum player I faced pulled of a variation to this strat. I was instantly suspisious when I scouted the callsupply as zerg on the depot near the ramp but then it was already to late. I barely held it off but the dmg had been done and the next wave meant gg.

Going to check a few of the replays soon. Thanks for sharing!

How was there another wave, the strategy involves pulling all scvs, if you don't then it's incredibly easy to stop.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

May 19 2011 23:01 GMT

#575

On May 20 2011 06:51 djdoodoo wrote:
I tried this build a few times. It's a little tedious tbh but I like the wall off. I thought that they patched it so you couldn't wall off with 2 buildings anymore. Anyway now I'll be using this wall off to my advantage. It's very helpful.

Can't wall off with 2x2 buildings anymore.
Bunkers, depots, and rax can all wall off lower ground, on most ramps, still.

closey

Hong Kong272 Posts

May 19 2011 23:04 GMT

#576

On May 20 2011 06:53 Daimai wrote:
This tactic is stupidly easy to pull off and stupidly hard to counter. Had 2 games today with this, lost one and won one. In the second one the guy felt the need to drophack me though^^

but yeah a retarded build

Did you report him?

I'm feeling brain dead for playing with this build too much, too. It definitely is a retarded build.

Exley

United States239 Posts

May 19 2011 23:22 GMT

#577

The giveaway for this particular build is the supply calldown. As Zerg, I've already played against this a few times since the OP. If you manage to see the calldown, you will probably have 2 queens building. I've had the best luck by making sure to inject with both queens while building pure lings once you see the calldown. It's not worth putting down a spine crawler or researching speed since both will not finish before the allin hits.

Dzerzhinsky

Scotland327 Posts

May 19 2011 23:27 GMT

#578

Someone tried this against me in a custom game yesterday (before I read the OP). He executed it well from what I could see, but the low wall off in a TvT had made me immediately suspicious. As a result of that wall-off I had put up bunkers and placed a spotter SCV out front to allow me to repair in time.

The low wall makes it difficult to scout, but its very existence screams 'marine rush'.

Quazar

2 Posts

May 19 2011 23:35 GMT

#579

ive tried it a few times, ive lost to zerg taht get like 3 blind spines and terran who get blind bunkers

Darpa

Canada4413 Posts

May 19 2011 23:40 GMT

#580

THis has been done so much on ladder. Lately I have just been walling the bottom of my ramp, letting the zerg make like 15 zerlings and 2 spines, or the toss make a ton of cannons, then just 1 rax expanding behind it. LOL. Works like a charm.