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On May 19 2011 14:11 aznkukuboi wrote:
Thing about this is that more and more people know about it. I tried this on bnet with mediocre success. One zerg made 16 lings by the ~5 min mark and totally raped me. This only works against a zerg who has commited their larvae to drones.
This build works against protoss quite well.
However, against another terran. I've come across many terrans who blind bunker immediately after they scout a wall of under the ramp. I get negated and lose my scvs and lose the game.
Therein lies the metagame advantage you can reap with the low-wall. Z made 16 lings? If you were 1 rax FE'ing you'd have a huge economic advantage.
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1. Change it so that you can't wall off the bottom of the ramp with 2x2 and a 3x3.
I think this is the only sane one you mentioned. Just make every map with the sunken supply depot at the bottom.
All it does is force them to put their 2 barracks at the top of the ramp. That way you can at least prepare for a normal 2rax instead of hoping they are going to do this build instead of doing some greedy 1 rax expand.
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On May 19 2011 12:40 closey wrote:
5) Build/cancel /build/cancel SCV when probes come in. They will see your flashing command center and think you're not doing this build
That's a pretty neat idea 
(Well in our case it doesn't apply since they don't see the CC, but I'll definitely be using that if I go for some other worker cutting all in and have 50 minerals spared when their scout is in my base)
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I think most people know about this now, i done this against a player i have played before that i know is beater then me and he was doing exactly the same build. Both of us scouted it and just macroed up from there to play a normal game.
this will be the last time ill try this build, i prefer longer games even if i lose in the end.
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Spanishiwa builds with 2 preemptive spine crawlers beat this build, as do bunkers.
Protoss however... I don't really know what you can do, even if you do scout it. You would need phenomenal micro, because at the time the SCV's and marines come up your ramp, you have 1 zealot, one stalker, and either another stalker or a sentry.
I love that rush distances are generally irrelevant too. Did this against a toss on cross positions Typhoon Peaks, had no issue at all.
I don't think this build has the lasting power that other cheeses though, just because of the low wall. However, you can abuse this metagame once other players see the low wall (and therefore expect the 3 rax all-in) by playing standard. So while this cheese may not have a long life-span, I think the metagame that the low wall gives is interesting.
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love how much energy you put in to this thread! tons of replays and discussion :D still a little worried that you consider yourself a plat level player :S
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On May 19 2011 15:56 KillerPlague wrote:
love how much energy you put in to this thread! tons of replays and discussion :D still a little worried that you consider yourself a plat level player :S
Thanks for feedback
I went and did a couple custom games yesterday or the day before where I tried to play a standard terran. I beat a couple of diamond players, but also lost to some plat players. All in all I think its fair to say that high plat is my real terran level at the moment.
However I do have somewhat solid mechanics so I have no doubt I could reach master level in a couple of weeks of training if that is what you are implying ?
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yea author of the OP is a genius
i'll be using this at the next tournament for sure if i get randomed Terran in the final rounds.
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On May 19 2011 01:08 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 00:45 Geiko wrote:On May 19 2011 00:40 Falcon-sw wrote:
What is with Terran being obsessed with finding an easy way to win? Didn't you read the OP ? I'm not terran, and definitely not obsessed with finding an easy way to win. I was just sharing an interesting all-in that has produced some good results. No need to turn this into a race hate thread. On an other note, I seriously doubt blizzard will need to nerf this. This is more like 6pooling if no one had ever thought of it or encountered it before. I did read OP and I still wonder how can any protoss player have T as most played race after 60-70 games, when he is at ~220 games total?? In my opinion, it means that you played 60-70 T, less than that P and about ~100 games as R/Z  User was warned for this post
To be fair, I first started thinking this strat through almost a month ago and played a couple of games with it back then. I also played a fair amount of custom games and smurf ladder games with it to perfect it.
60-70 is the actual "run" when I decided to take this to the ladder and see how well it does and how many games it took me to get to the top and start playing pros. After that I've played more games at that level and I only took the screenshot later when I decided to make the thread.
Feel free to browse through my match history if you have doubts about all this (geiko.813)
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On May 19 2011 16:13 IzieBoy wrote:
yea author of the OP is a genius
i'll be using this at the next tournament for sure if i get randomed Terran in the final rounds.
Who are you!?
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It's a great build, but I think the ladder has wisened up to this build...I'm only in NA Plat league, and I tried this on several games...it's not working too well. When it does work, it totally obliterates them, but when it doesn't...yeah like you said, it's GG for you. I ran into some zerg doing a fast roach build and I just couldn't compete. He has roaches ready...spines ready...yeah didn't go well for me :/
So I've basically went back to standard play...
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On May 19 2011 16:36 D_K_night wrote:
It's a great build, but I think the ladder has wisened up to this build...I'm only in NA Plat league, and I tried this on several games...it's not working too well. When it does work, it totally obliterates them, but when it doesn't...yeah like you said, it's GG for you. I ran into some zerg doing a fast roach build and I just couldn't compete. He has roaches ready...spines ready...yeah didn't go well for me :/
So I've basically went back to standard play...
All these problems are timing problems which you learn to deal with with a good deal of practise.
For example, on 4 players map, if your scout reached his base in time to see him put up a spine, experience tells you that if you push out now, his spine wont be done. So even if you don't have the right amount of marines, it's a good idea to push out a soon as you see him morphing that spine. Same goes for scouted roach warren. The idea is to always attack when your opponent is least ready.
Maybe scouting with the first scv who builds a barracks is a godd thing vs zerg opponents.
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After reading this, my first opponent tried this on me. I figured it out when I saw him going for a depot and rax wall off at the bottom of his ramp. I put a bunker at the top of my ramp immediately. Even though my bunker died, it held him off enough to get extra units out to eventually wipe up his army.
I guess it will be somewhat harder to get to masters league with this now. Just a tad because people will be looking for it more now that it is posted here.
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Yeah I've noticed on the NA server there are two ways you'll see a strategy sweep like wildfire across the divisions. Post it on TL (This thread) or Obliterate your opponent in a high profile tournament game (/cough oGsMC FFs)
Overall, I'm glad of this thread because now I know the surefire ways of countering it. I've stopped this build a lot before but I'm sure it was more so on the lack of experience of my opponents and intuitive guesses by myself then actually knowing EXACTLY how to stop this dead.
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ridiculous to hold on 4 player maps if you scout last and he walls off on the highground and goes for this while you go for a normal game.
if you don't chrono sentrys and delay your tech you basically lose the game right there
didn't expect to see it this often yesterday.
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I defended it easily with the Ice Fisher build on XelNaga. I saw the wall and left my scouting drone at the watchtower. When I saw his scv's are coming I pulled all my drones and 2 queens and that time I already had 2 spines and they just killed everything.
edit
With Protoss I think the easiest way is leaving the scouting probe below your ramp to spot when the attack comes, get sentries and stall with FFs at the chock till your army value is greater, then just attack. Step back with the sentries till force field holds to avoid high ground scans.
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This build can easily be defended with the ice fisher build.
I'm top 8 diamond. Here's a replay of it, and me not even scouting the 3rax.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/1914
If he ran directly up my ramp he could have sustained more damage but i could have easily moved my 3 spine crawlers, and I didn't even pull ALL my drones.
The ice fisher build sets you up perfectly. As I always throw down 2 crawlers and a few more If i see 2rax. I noticed no gas so i assumed some sort of 2 rax build. Throwing down a 3rd spine crawler. With 2 queens and 2 more on the way, you should be able to stop this no problem.
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On May 19 2011 17:33 diegorivera wrote:
I defended it easily with the Ice Fisher build on XelNaga. I saw the wall and left my scouting drone at the watchtower. When I saw his scv's are coming I pulled all my drones and 2 queens and that time I already had 2 spines and they just killed everything.
edit
With Protoss I think the easiest way is leaving the scouting probe below your ramp to spot when the attack comes, get sentries and stall with FFs at the chock till your army value is greater, then just attack with probes and army. Step back with the sentries till force field holds to avoid high ground scans.
You do realize that the only thing you should be seing from that watch tower is 2 marines coming to chase your scout ?
Also, leaving a probe at all time at the bottom of the ramp seems a bit like overreaction Looking at your minimap regularly should be sufficient (non stimmed marines are pretty slow).
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On May 19 2011 18:06 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 17:33 diegorivera wrote:
I defended it easily with the Ice Fisher build on XelNaga. I saw the wall and left my scouting drone at the watchtower. When I saw his scv's are coming I pulled all my drones and 2 queens and that time I already had 2 spines and they just killed everything.
edit
With Protoss I think the easiest way is leaving the scouting probe below your ramp to spot when the attack comes, get sentries and stall with FFs at the chock till your army value is greater, then just attack with probes and army. Step back with the sentries till force field holds to avoid high ground scans. You do realize that the only thing you should be seing from that watch tower is 2 marines coming to chase your scout ? Also, leaving a probe at all time at the bottom of the ramp seems a bit like overreaction Looking at your minimap regularly should be sufficient (non stimmed marines are pretty slow).
You are right he did not clear the towers before the push however my first set of lings would spot the push before it hits so I still have time to grab my drones and the 2 spines are part of the Ice Fisher anyways so I think it is still viable.
With P I think the first FF is crucial and the low-chock wall is enough tell to use your scouting probe to spot the attack.
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I'm currently only top of the silver league as random. (I really should just stick to my main race Terran)
Anyways I lost to this build before, but the next day I became 100% paranoid of it. So I played a game on Blackwater and I randomly got Zerg I was going 13 hatch, but one of my overlords saw the rax wallin I I got lucky because my initial overlord scouted in the right direction and I didn't send a drone scout) ... I immediately got nightmares/flashbacks of the last time I've seen this setup so I quickly cancel my natural and build two spine crawlers in my main, a queen, and mass zerglings that are morphed into banelings.
Of course to contribute to the thread, replays are always nice.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-209887.jpg)
He was platinum btw... maybe I can finally get out silver as random soon. *facepalm*
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EPT
