EPT[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league - Page 22
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LovE-
United States1963 Posts
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
don't wall at the bottom vs Protoss. I'm bound to chrono out 2 Stalkers while pulling up 2 more gates to harass the fuck out of it if I scout a wall at the bottom. (and I WILL send them straight at your base) Just proxy the rax  | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Blackman
13 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:18 Blackman wrote: Thank you very much for this post, I have officially played 8 games in a row where every single terran cheesed. This kind of post is what incites people to just use no skill builds that are unbeatable without perfect reaction and proper scouting. Proxy rax, marine scvallin, blue flame tank marine, marine hellion... the list goes on. Do terrans actually play macro games ever? Why play a macro game when you can play a game that requires a specific reaction from an opponent not to lose, and unless he counters you perfectly he still takes enough damage for you to still be able to transition to a macro game. Its all about overall winrate anyway right? | ||
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:18 Blackman wrote: Thank you very much for this post, I have officially played 8 games in a row where every single terran cheesed. This kind of post is what incites people to just use no skill builds that are unbeatable without perfect reaction and proper scouting. Proxy rax, marine scvallin, blue flame tank marine, marine hellion... the list goes on. Do terrans actually play macro games ever? nope we dont play macro games ever why arent you used to that by now been using this on scrap tvz it works marvelously | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:18 Blackman wrote: Thank you very much for this post, I have officially played 8 games in a row where every single terran cheesed. This kind of post is what incites people to just use no skill builds that are unbeatable without perfect reaction and proper scouting. Proxy rax, marine scvallin, blue flame tank marine, marine hellion... the list goes on. Do terrans actually play macro games ever? I think someone is butthurt because they lost to this. Instead of crying about it on the forums, why not brainstorm a way to find a solution to the problem? And how is Blue blame tank marine, marine hellion all in no skill builds? | ||
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VynsticusSC2
Netherlands10 Posts
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:02 VynsticusSC2 wrote: That's cool and all but what if I have 16 Marines and 18 SCVs? :D You should probably win. I don't usually do this against Terran because if I scout low ground wall off = bunker at the top for me. | ||
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mlgbx
United States73 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:18 Blackman wrote: Thank you very much for this post, I have officially played 8 games in a row where every single terran cheesed. This kind of post is what incites people to just use no skill builds that are unbeatable without perfect reaction and proper scouting. Proxy rax, marine scvallin, blue flame tank marine, marine hellion... the list goes on. Do terrans actually play macro games ever? I have had a great deal of success with this build today, but I have also lost a few to good Zerg players. The ones that have beaten me were able to scout the build either by sacrificing an overlord over my choke or by counting the number of marines I had at my ramp. They then got two spines and at least two queens at their natural, and used every single drone and ling when I arrived. I can give you a replay of me losing with this strategy if you message me. | ||
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VynsticusSC2
Netherlands10 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:10 Velladin wrote: You should probably win. I don't usually do this against Terran because if I scout low ground wall off = bunker at the top for me. The build order I use doesn't rely on low-ground wall-off. It's a Marine dedicated build designed to attack with 16 Marines and 18 SCVs. 10 Supply Depot 12 Barracks (Naked) 14 Barracks (Naked) 16 Marine 17 Barracks (Naked) 17 Supply Depot 17 Marine 18 Marine 19 Barracks (Naked) 19 Marine 20 Marine 21 Marine 22 Marine 23 Supply Depot 23 Marine 24 Marine 25 Marine 26 Marine 27 Marine 30 Marine 31 Marine 32 Marine 33 Marine Like that. Usually get the last Marine out at 5:15-5:18. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
How can anyone be protoss player, and then after 60-70 games have Terran as most played race... with 220 games in total?  | ||
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Blackman
13 Posts
On May 18 2011 06:29 Velladin wrote: I think someone is butthurt because they lost to this. Instead of crying about it on the forums, why not brainstorm a way to find a solution to the problem? And how is Blue blame tank marine, marine hellion all in no skill builds? 1. I didn't lose to it, I beat it, but the amount of skill it takes to hold it off compared to actually doing it is laughable. 2. If a terran makes blue flame, tanks, and marines, he essentially makes you split your unit comp and he can just take advantage of it easily.Too many banelings? Tanks/hellions destroy you. Too many roaches? tanks destroy you. Too many lings? hellions destroy you again. When a push like this comes out at the 8 minute mark, your opponent hardly has enough time to react accordingly. All the terran has to do is siege up, sit there, maybe build a bunker or two and just scan. 3. The majority of all-ins available to terran are so much more numerous than that of zerg, which only has baneling bust and maybe some roach rushes (7 pool, 6 pool etc don't count because they are not reliable at all due to block and the fact that if they are scouted a block can easily be constructed in time.) The fact that terran has so many cheeses available to it, and the fact that they can build an entire simcity in front of your base, and if you don't react immediately (or scout early enough for that matter), you lose, or you are just severely behind to the point there is no point in playing anymore, and they lose nothing for it. If you beat it, they can just salvage and lift, and meanwhile they will expand at their base and still completely be in the game, while you could even get past your natural for a third. A zerg has to be exponentially better than the terran play to stop the cheese, in intelligence, micro, and macro. I know TL is going to be like, "omg why are you complaining about the game. BAN." but really these kinds of posts are just counter productive to the progress of the game. User was temp banned from the Strategy Forum for this post. | ||
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Blackman
13 Posts
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:22 Blackman wrote: 2. If a terran makes blue flame, tanks, and marines, he essentially makes you split your unit comp and he can just take advantage of it easily.Too many banelings? Tanks/hellions destroy you. Too many roaches? tanks destroy you. Too many lings? hellions destroy you again. When a push like this comes out at the 8 minute mark, your opponent hardly has enough time to react accordingly. All the terran has to do is siege up, sit there, maybe build a bunker or two and just scan. 3. The majority of all-ins available to terran are so much more numerous than that of zerg, which only has baneling bust and maybe some roach rushes (7 pool, 6 pool etc don't count because they are not reliable at all due to block and the fact that if they are scouted a block can easily be constructed in time.) The fact that terran has so many cheeses available to it, and the fact that they can build an entire simcity in front of your base, and if you don't react immediately (or scout early enough for that matter), you lose, or you are just severely behind to the point there is no point in playing anymore, and they lose nothing for it. If you beat it, they can just salvage and lift, and meanwhile they will expand at their base and still completely be in the game, while you could even get past your natural for a third. A zerg has to be exponentially better than the terran play to stop the cheese, in intelligence, micro, and macro. I know TL is going to be like, "omg why are you complaining about the game. BAN." but really these kinds of posts are just counter productive to the progress of the game. Starcraft isn't just black and white in the paragraph number 2. There are way too factors to take into consideration. You can't just blindly throw out statements like "omg too many tanks, banelings are useless, or too many hellions, lings are useless." If this was the case, every Terran would be just massing these units and winning 100% of the time, which it is not. Once again, instead of trying to find a solution, you just whined about tanks/hellions. Terran has some cheeses available, so does Toss and so does Zerg. Cheese is part of the game and just salvaging and retreating with 0 damage done to the Terran is absurd. If your cheese fails/didn't do significant damage, it is pretty much over for that player. An all-in build is something with no transition; if it fails, you lose. | ||
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Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:22 Blackman wrote: I know TL is going to be like, "omg why are you complaining about the game. BAN." but really these kinds of posts are just counter productive to the progress of the game. I personally think the exact opposite, these types of strats push the game forward. By having this strat out there, people have to know how to scout it and beat it...... that process will ultimately lead to someone figuring out a build that stops all or most cheese builds a particular race can do. It also pushes people to scout more, the only reason a cheese should ever work is if you didn't scout it..... therefore when a cheese becomes insanely popular it promotes better scouting and more players focus on that aspect of their game. This process continues and continues and has knock on effect after knock effect for the different matchups metagames, if you know this insanely strong cheese is an option then you have to be looking for it, it becomes part of the calculation when doing an FE for example. Anywho, personally cheese is a good thing for the development of the game and the players. Anyone who thinks it isn't, doesn't play to win. Cheesing is easier than stopping it yes, but only if you didn't scout it.... if you didn't scout it then its ur fault u lost. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On May 18 2011 05:58 LovE-z33k wrote: Yeah I think this is starting to die down.. This thread has gotten too much attention xD I agree, I had a TvT where we both essentially did this build.... thankfully I saw it coming via a XN tower and threw up bunkers to block most of my ramp, forcing his scv's to bunch where i could block with my own scv's and kill them all off while his rines were stuck at the bottom of the ramp not able to do very much. | ||
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randplaty
205 Posts
On May 18 2011 07:19 VynsticusSC2 wrote: The build order I use doesn't rely on low-ground wall-off. It's a Marine dedicated build designed to attack with 16 Marines and 18 SCVs. 10 Supply Depot 12 Barracks (Naked) 14 Barracks (Naked) 16 Marine 17 Barracks (Naked) 17 Supply Depot 17 Marine 18 Marine 19 Barracks (Naked) 19 Marine 20 Marine 21 Marine 22 Marine 23 Supply Depot 23 Marine 24 Marine 25 Marine 26 Marine 27 Marine 30 Marine 31 Marine 32 Marine 33 Marine Like that. Usually get the last Marine out at 5:15-5:18. This is probably too slow. The reason the OP's build is tough to beat is because it leaves the base at 4:30 and arrives at your opponent's base at 5:10. Your build is leaving your base at 5:15 and will probably arrive at your opponents base at 5:55. As protoss, your warpgate finishes at 6mins. In a typical 2 gate robo build, they will get 2 sentries before warpgate finishes. So they can FF the ramp twice, buying 30 more seconds. Once warpgate finishes, they'll get 2 more sentries. You won't be able to get up the ramp until the 7 minute mark or later because the energy recharges on the sentries, and by then he'll have a ton of units. | ||
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