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[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league - Page 20
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On May 17 2011 20:35 starcraft911 wrote: Did you random? Kind of weird that he walled his ramp. I agree that you most likely would have won if you microed. You had more marines and you lost a lot of SCV while your marines were blasting the wall. Sjow is super safe, and hes prolly aware of the build and Geiko ;p | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:16 YosHGo wrote: serious piece of crap this build really... scvs wanna be minning not attacking !!! Thats why its an all-in... you either win or lose right there, more often than not you will win on ladder. | ||
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Scrubington
Canada475 Posts
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Tristan107
France24 Posts
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=search_submit&search_player=Geiko ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-209135.jpg) | ||
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Capulina
United States19 Posts
Just thought I would chime in and say you're awesome. Haters going to hate, Slaters going to slate! | ||
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Liuwi
Germany20 Posts
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
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Scrubington
Canada475 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:51 Mowr wrote: I think it's great that this spreads. Just like you loose to 6-pool + drones if you dont scout it and react properly, spreading it lets people learn about the counters. Of course it's a positive thing. However, it can get annoying at time when you really just want to practice a nice long macro game and literally eight Terran players in a row all-in you, you know it's coming, and you know you can stop it, and yet you still leave the game because it's just so tiring to see over and over again : (. | ||
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DevanT
United States71 Posts
So don't complain about this build, but thank geiko for ruining the build for terrans because it has been the top 5 posts in TL for a few days now and fifty thousand people have seen this and now know how to react. | ||
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Scrubington
Canada475 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:55 DevanT wrote: Honestly, to all of those complaining about a terran all-in...Terran is the one race that has been lacking a true all-in on the ladders. Yes the marine/scv rush has been around for a long, long, time...but it is not nearly as documented as the 6 pool or cannon rush. Every class has 1-2 REALLY early all-in strategies. Yes it will win you a lot of games, but it will not make you a better player. This thread is actually beneficial for Protoss and Zerg as this build is now being seen everywhere and strategies are fast emerging to counter this. This is frustrating for terrans who like quick wins, but there are ways to beat this and people are showing up to tell P & Z how to beat it. So don't complain about this build, but thank geiko for ruining the build for terrans because it has been the top 5 posts in TL for a few days now and fifty thousand people have seen this and now know how to react. The game's going to evolve whether strategies are posted on TL or not. If you're in high diamond or above it doesn't matter if it's a popular build or not. A good player is a good player and they will scout it out regardless of this post. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Ncinerate
172 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2456449500?page=1 Anyway, I love some of what you've done here! The low-ground wall-off is brilliant, as it blocks off the ramp BEFORE you get scouted, leaving the enemy completely in the dark. It could be a marine/scv all-in, but hell, it could be a banshee rush. Honestly, I don't know why I never thought of this (I guess I assumed it would be a leaky wall - it certainly looks leaky). The only think that makes this build even remotely scoutable is the lowground supply drop, and you could easily rid yourself of that by following the build I just posted a link to above this paragraph  .My build was slightly different as I didn't make use of supply drop, had a fairly similar number of marines leaving at the same time (I think I had 8 around 4:30 vs 9 in this build and -slightly- slower followup marines) but I did have significantly more SCVS with a mule mining as I pushed out (I think 15 scvs as I recall). I also left quite a few SCVS at home mining along with my mule (only pushed out with 8-10 scvs) so I could afford to continue marine production and simultaneously build bunkers while attacking - which helps you survive if you run into a really really good defense as demonstrated in the replay I put up. I wasn't sure if this was optimal though, and it might be better to just bring all 15 scvs and leave the mule at home to do his work solo instead - especially considering the micro trick I discuss next. The -BIG- difference, is how I micro the attack, and I think anyone who uses this build would benefit from this difference . I notice watching the OP replays that he uses the SCVS on -ATTACK- mode. During the course of the attack quite a few of them die fairly early even on successful pushes. I suggest there is a better way. -STOP- mode. It takes a small amount of additional micro, but putting your SCVS on stop - ESPECIALLY at the opening moments of the attack where the enemy attempts to pull probes/drones to stop you is absolutely critical! Allow me to explain. Stop mode SCVS generate no heat, and as long as there are marines behind them firing, enemy units WILL NOT ENGAGE THE SCVS. It's the same reason that scv+thor used to be so powerful (back before they patched it, repairing scvs didn't generate any heat either). This is key, as it creates quite literally a movable wall. Enemy units trying to get past the scvs will have to run around them, breaking up their movement patterns and causing them to take additional fire from the marines behind. You can stutter-step with the whole group (scvs and marines) with the SCVS slightly in front and you've automatically made it extremely difficult for the enemy to get units up close enough to the marines to do damage. Putting them on two control groups lets you move your "wall" around to keep blocking for the marines. Enemy stalkers trying to get in range of marines have to go around a whole mess of probes and scvs while the marines pound away at the probe line. The enemy drones/probes -cannot- attack the scvs present under any circumstances if you do this - you can't do a "probe slipknot" with hold position as probes/drones do not automatically attack nearby enemies without the ATTACK command. They literally have to focus-fire each and every scv if they want to actually kill them, and this is impossible in the context of this attack (because if they just try to focus with the whole group they will bunch up and die, and if they focus one probe at a time it's absolutely sub-optimal and would take a ridiculous amount of APM while being blasted by 8 marines). If you use the attack command on probes/drones, they will automatically target the marines, not the scvs, bunching up in front of your scv "wall" and absolutely ruining their chances to micro as the marines chew through probes from behind the line. Once you've successfully obliterated a significant number of probes/units, then you can put your scvs on attack mode to finish the enemy off if you really want to, but I usually just let the marines do all the work while the scvs play offensive linemen. Even if you make a HUGE mistake and get your marines surrounded/killed, most if not all of your scvs will -survive- the engagement to join with your reinforcements. Watch my replay vs a quad-masters (1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4) zerg for an example of that: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/172332-ffa-terran-protoss-zerg-metalopolis This was one of my first tests of this build and I did an absolutely HORRIBLE job microing my attack. The zerg was skilled and managed to surround and kill my marines when I pushed too far into his base (I should have stayed closer to the ramp so I could have utilized an "scv plug" when he came at me with drone/ling/queen). Even with my horrible play I managed to keep a significant number of my scvs alive (would have had -all- of them, but I didnt pull them back soon enough), and I won the game as my lowground bunkers came online with reinforcements streaming in. Seriously guys. Regardless of which build you choose to use, TRY THIS. It works. | ||
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Geiko
France1959 Posts
On May 18 2011 00:44 Capulina wrote: Hi Geiko, Just thought I would chime in and say you're awesome. Haters going to hate, Slaters going to slate! Thanks I really appreciate it. I am on my way down the ladder again, trying to macro up as protoss, so I won't be giving out any more replays. Its been fun being up there for a while. This is the first replay of my fall down the ladder as protoss, and my last replay of me playing with the pros :'( ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-209608.jpg) Anyone think I should have won this ? ^^ I was feeling pretty good after that first attack but then i guess i didn't tech up fast enough  | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
isnt it annoying to get flamed by the pros all the time because you are all-inning them LOL User was warned for this post | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5219 Posts
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jarrydesque
584 Posts
Thank you! | ||
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Ncinerate
172 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:09 Geiko wrote: Thanks I really appreciate it. I am on my way down the ladder again, trying to macro up as protoss, so I won't be giving out any more replays. Its been fun being up there for a while. This is the first replay of my fall down the ladder as protoss, and my last replay of me playing with the pros :'( Anyone think I should have won this ? ^^ I was feeling pretty good after that first attack but then i guess i didn't tech up fast enough Aww, I was really hoping you'd give the "stop" trick a try before you gave up on marine/scv all-inning up there in GM league . It makes the scv/marine attack you're doing remarkably stronger imho. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
Replay of me doing 3g pressure vs a terran who did this, I coulnd get into his base although I saw 2 marines, so I went for a robo to make sure I have obs for banshee, I am diamond level protoss. Even with getting a nice surround if you dont have at least 1 stalker you pretty much auto lose to this build. | ||
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Ncinerate
172 Posts
10 supply scv 11/19 rax 3 scvs 14/19 rax scv marine 16/19 rax marine depot 2 marines 19/19 orbital command 3 more marines call down the first mule 22/27 supply depot (this is so you have enough supply overhead to continue scv/marine production). I was usually leaving my base @ 4:15-4:20 with 7 marines and about 10 scvs, leaving enough scvs and a mule at home to produce constant reinforcements and make enough cash to allow me to drop 2 bunkers -during- my attack, usually in range of the probe line or nexus if possible, or above the ramp if not (to kill tech/gate at the ramp). After that it's just pure micro at the front. Stop mode SCVS in front of marines chewing away at enemy units/workers/pylons/whatever while the bunkers finish, constant reinforcements streaming in, don't forget to drop your second mule during your attack and continue building scvs at home/making another supply depot if relevant (usually not necessary as some units die at the front keeping my supply open). If the game does go longer, you usually did critical damage to the enemy economy and have a pretty remarkably good economy still running (plus, most or all of your SCVS should survive the engagement, meaning you can turn tail, salvage any bunkers, and macro up if necessary). It's good enough that I've even been using it in FFA where I want to kill one enemy quickly and then macro up for a long game to beat the remaining 2 opponents . I'm not left critically weak, and as long as I do economic damage I wind up -way- ahead even if I don't kill someone.Course, it almost always kills them (if they are P or Z anyway - T's are skittish and often build a bunker at the ramp which totally screws you). | ||
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