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I just played a ZvP on Xelnaga, and the guy responded to my ling roach by going archon/immortal.
with the splash damage of 4-5 archons and immortal to counter the roaches my army couldnt do anything. i tried to put hydras in my mix and infestors. but couldnt do anything !!
i countered and denied his 3rd twice or three times. i took all the bases i could, and still couldnt do anything !!
I used to be diamond level but i'm i got demoted to platinum since im always dying to cheeses.
thx if someone can give me some advice !!
here is the replay http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/6723/ZealotNick_vs_Jojo
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On May 07 2011 07:42 jojoleb wrote:I just played a ZvP on Xelnaga, and the guy responded to my ling roach by going archon/immortal. with the splash damage of 4-5 archons and immortal to counter the roaches my army couldnt do anything. i tried to put hydras in my mix and infestors. but couldnt do anything !! i countered and denied his 3rd twice or three times. i took all the bases i could, and still couldnt do anything !! I used to be diamond level but i'm i got demoted to platinum since im always dying to cheeses. thx if someone can give me some advice !! here is the replay http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/6723/ZealotNick_vs_Jojo
Mutas are godly against this. As much as archons are good against stacked units the splash range is very small, if you can keep your mutas separated then you will absolutely crush this. Also, throw in some lings to absorbs hits as the archons will focus on the air units, so lings will be free to run in and cause havok.
Hydra/ling is pretty good too I just realized. Maybe even better. Roaches are more meant for tanking damage, need a damage dealing units in their (lings or mutas or hydras)
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Im feeling the obligatory .....
Broodlords.
=)
User was warned for this post
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More importantly roaches are the worst unit imaginable against archon/immortal.
And yeah, magic boxed muta/ling works pretty effectively, especially since muta harass will force some stalkers. Get out some brood lords, and you should be able to crush that composition. Having said that, a major problem in that game was your economy; you just can't stay even bases against protoss for as long as you were.
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I was actually thinking over broodlord/inferstor/ling getting nice fungals off would give the broodlords enough space to outrange the archons and tear through their shields pretty effectively.
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On May 07 2011 07:58 X3NOC1D3 wrote:
I was actually thinking over broodlord/inferstor/ling getting nice fungals off would give the broodlords enough space to outrange the archons and tear through their shields pretty effectively.
as of 1.3.3, the massive attribute makes fungal not slow down archons.
However, much like a thor, when the broods hit/spawns broodlings, the archons/units are stoped, and forced to attack, giving u time for another volley... and so on.
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What are you talking about? Massive units are trapped by fungals, it happens to colossi all the time.
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On May 07 2011 08:01 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 07:58 X3NOC1D3 wrote:
I was actually thinking over broodlord/inferstor/ling getting nice fungals off would give the broodlords enough space to outrange the archons and tear through their shields pretty effectively. as of 1.3.3, the massive attribute makes fungal not slow down archons. However, much like a thor, when the broods hit/spawns broodlings, the archons/units are stoped, and forced to attack, giving u time for another volley... and so on.
Says who? Being massive doesn't make fungal not root the unit. The only unit immune to fungal's movement decrease are ultras.
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On May 07 2011 07:42 jojoleb wrote:I just played a ZvP on Xelnaga, and the guy responded to my ling roach by going archon/immortal. with the splash damage of 4-5 archons and immortal to counter the roaches my army couldnt do anything. i tried to put hydras in my mix and infestors. but couldnt do anything !! i countered and denied his 3rd twice or three times. i took all the bases i could, and still couldnt do anything !! I used to be diamond level but i'm i got demoted to platinum since im always dying to cheeses. thx if someone can give me some advice !! here is the replay http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/6723/ZealotNick_vs_Jojo
The only thing going through my mind this whole game is SO MUCH GAS. His army cost = SO much gas. Your base taking = so much (opportunity for) gas.
Do you have any idea what the gas cost of this army is??? By denying his 3rd for so long you had him starved in minerals so you know his army must be smaller than yours if macroed right.
Secondly, the point of taking expos as zerg is for the gas!!!
As previously stated by other comments: Explore spire tech when your opponent throws down a robo. Mutas will put the fear of moving out on him even further and Hive+Broods once you're on 4base worth of gasses wouldve crushed that game.
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Hi there.
I just watched the replay, and you did a fairly great job. Like others said though, Roaches are the worst possible unit against Archon/Immortals since both deal a significant amount of damage to Roaches. Although if you had upgraded your Zerglings a little more, and massed those I think you would have been fine.
Also, you should have stopped the Roaches. You should have either gone with Hydralisks and Infestors, or Infestors and Zerglings adding in a few Neural Parasites here and there.
Like others have suggested, Brood Lords are good units, but in my opinion he got an army of that size fairly quickly and so I think getting Brood Lords that quickly would be inconvenient and difficult.
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On May 07 2011 08:04 Disp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 08:01 Malpractice.248 wrote:On May 07 2011 07:58 X3NOC1D3 wrote:
I was actually thinking over broodlord/inferstor/ling getting nice fungals off would give the broodlords enough space to outrange the archons and tear through their shields pretty effectively. as of 1.3.3, the massive attribute makes fungal not slow down archons. However, much like a thor, when the broods hit/spawns broodlings, the archons/units are stoped, and forced to attack, giving u time for another volley... and so on. Says who? Being massive doesn't make fungal not root the unit. The only unit immune to fungal's movement decrease are ultras.
Actually, after thinking, youre right, lol. Sry :/
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i dont see how Hydras Dont counter that unless u were miles behind by allining or your macro is terrible
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Broodlords is the clear and obvious answer. Hydras perform well against archon as well, but obviously are slow off creep. Zerg has alot of soft counters for this comp, broodlord is the hardest counter.
Another example of a soft counter is denying his third base. (no gas, no archons)
If he is able to get to a meaningful number of archons and immortals then you are more than capable of having broodlords at that time. Get ready for this though... wait for it... *GASP* you won't be able to play standard and max in 14 minutes on roach hydra if you think he will get a critical mass of units in that time. Zerg needs a new standard soon if not already.
lings are the last thing you want if there are 3 or 4 archons on the field.
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The best counter to Immortal/Archon is probably mass Zergling + Infestor(with Neural Parasite), with perhaps a few Ultras thrown in. Neural Parasite as many as you can and clean everything else up with Zerglings + Ultras.
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Ultras are really really bad against both archons and immortals what are you talking about? Infestor/ling should work fine with a good surround, but... ultras?
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On May 07 2011 08:23 Amarkov wrote:
Ultras are really really bad against both archons and immortals what are you talking about? Infestor/ling should work fine with a good surround, but... ultras?
Ultras are only really bad against Archons/Immortals if your opponent is specifically targeting them. And if they are they're dead anyways because of the mass Zergling + Neural Parasite. I'm not talking a lot of Ultras, just a few..like 3-4.
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a better question is why did you let him get archon AND immortals? Overlord drops of lings [just a few.] You should have a lot of expansions always threaten counter attacks if he pushes out and tech to whatever you want. Hydra would be good vs this but the point is that he's got a very immobile army you should abuse this by just destroying him by getting 3 more bases than he has and abusing the lack of pressure he can do with droning.
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On May 07 2011 08:26 NiiTHrA wrote:
a better question is why did you let him get archon AND immortals? Overlord drops of lings [just a few.] You should have a lot of expansions always threaten counter attacks if he pushes out and tech to whatever you want. Hydra would be good vs this but the point is that he's got a very immobile army you should abuse this by just destroying him by getting 3 more bases than he has and abusing the lack of pressure he can do with droning.
did you even watch the replay ?? thats what i did !
i FG his probes(killed at least 20) . harrassed, denied 3rd twice etc..
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thank everyone for the advice. but how i'm supposed to tech to brood lords when he can just attack me at any moments ! thats why I was getting roach hydra coz that was that tech i had. i even tried to fungal.
but the problems is that no zerg unit does extra damage to Psyonic units(archons) so its hard to counter it.
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fungal will work great and if possible u can neural parasite the archons and splash all around. If you fungal, they can't move, great for catching toss out of position and using other units to attack
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EPT
