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[D]Mining; Split or Build first? - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
April 30 2011 08:55 GMT
#61
I've actually been trying to build and then split lately, as opposed to vice versa. Guess I should always build first since I always go 13 gate.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 09:24:32
April 30 2011 09:16 GMT
#62
it does not take 2 seconds to hold 'S/D/E' and click CC/larva/nexus

you seem to calculate that it takes 2 seconds to build then split... but build first is almost instantaneous, ergo ~95% of that time will be the actual split. if we were to assume this:

basically a split means your workers gather 0.1 sec faster, and thus the minerals are returned 0.1 sec faster. this works out as 0.4 minerals.

but in the process you lose 1.9 seconds on your next worker, which works out as 1.27 minerals.


it's a miniscule difference, but if your trying to optimize then i don't see much reason to split first. it's the same story if you're not fast enough to do the build first with zero downtime, because it would further delay your first worker.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
April 30 2011 09:17 GMT
#63
well i am lazy at the start ... but everytime i build first i lack the minerals to build the next scv x3 . I think i am below these 2 seconds though still. So i guess as long as this happens building first isn't good for me ^^.
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 09:46:07
April 30 2011 09:36 GMT
#64
On April 30 2011 04:04 Malloy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 04:01 Monta wrote:
0.25 second reaction time? That's ridiculous. Please don't make a thread like this without actually looking into.


Actually, it's 0.21...
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php


you hold 'S' and from the loading screen you know where the CC will be... spam click... faster than 0.21 sec imo. it's not like waiting for a green light to appear. it's more like 0.1 second.


in addition to this.. after a split it will take like 0.5 seconds to initiate the first build, because you now have to find the cursor, move cursor to CC, click and press S or whatever.


in short... i don't know of any pro players who split first. this is because it was discovered on pretty much day one that build first was more tidy, easier and resulted in faster yield of a tiny amount of minerals.
dthree
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia150 Posts
April 30 2011 11:02 GMT
#65
What would math be if you were to:

1. Box all workers and send to patch
2. make worker
3. split
Overpowered
Profile Joined January 2011
Czech Republic764 Posts
April 30 2011 11:09 GMT
#66
I always build first and then split.
Just another gold Protoss...
TrANCE,
Profile Joined December 2010
301 Posts
April 30 2011 11:15 GMT
#67
On April 30 2011 10:18 kzn wrote:

Nobody has been able to reproduce this in practice. In theory, it might generate a tiny amount, but after massive testing the consensus is that its impossible to produce it.


Who can't reproduce this? Worker first and perfect split will make you be able to produce your second worker exatly when your first one has finished. making it optimal for any one worker producing race Toss/Terran even for zerg with the workers quicker would still make it optimul in my eyes
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 11:16:39
April 30 2011 11:15 GMT
#68
I usually send all workers to one min patch, que probe, and then split. This can be done before any workers hit that initial mineral patch.

I never am waiting to produce my second worker.
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
April 30 2011 12:05 GMT
#69
On April 30 2011 17:47 Validity wrote:
Why do 12 and 13 gate differentiate when both of them have to cut probes to get out the first pylon? Or am i understanding how you calculated this wrong?

I've always done split first then make worker as protoss because .5 faster for 6 workers is better than .5 faster for 7th 8th and 9th probe until it equalized with a probe cut.


you are right, TE is wrong. well, you dont have to cut for the first pylon, you have to cut before the first pylon completes for a rly small period of time



@ the "splitting itself doesnt regenerate minerals"

ofc it does - if you do not split the workers take years to find a mineralpatch - by splitting you pretty much lower that time by 50%
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
April 30 2011 20:00 GMT
#70
On April 30 2011 20:15 TrANCE, wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 10:18 kzn wrote:

Nobody has been able to reproduce this in practice. In theory, it might generate a tiny amount, but after massive testing the consensus is that its impossible to produce it.


Who can't reproduce this? Worker first and perfect split will make you be able to produce your second worker exatly when your first one has finished. making it optimal for any one worker producing race Toss/Terran even for zerg with the workers quicker would still make it optimul in my eyes


Worker first and no split attempt at all results in the same thing.
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